Bryz, Bryz, Bryz. WHY?

[OH1FlyersFan]

Midway through the second, Bryz makes a glove save!! Where did that come from?! Wow! A save!! Huh. And just after that second goal slipped right through his legs. Where do we get a journeyman goaltender like Edmonton's who can outplay our $51 million star??? I want one!

[wcflyer]

Can't blame this one on Bryz, he should have that one, but he made some huge saves. Where was the offence? They had some chances but couldn't finish. Frustrating loss for sure, going to be a good one Saturday night in Calgary.

[canoli]

I guess that's what most will say - "can't blame this one on Bryzgalov." He sure made some good saves along the way...but once again a bad goal doubles their lead, at a time when the period was up for grabs.

The skaters are surely feeling the effects of bad goaltending; they have been for awhile. Their job is much harder when the goaltender continues to give up soft goals. When your teammate keeps blowing it - whatever "it" is - you get frustrated. With the Flyers' goaltending it's been going on all season.

The Flyers are capable of serious offensive pressure, breaking down the opposition and scoring 4, 5, 6 goals. But some nights you just don't have it. Some nights you rely on your goalie to keep you close, keep you in it.

Maybe 2-0 isn't that much worse than 1-0 but who knows? On a night where the no-name goalie at the other end is standing on his head, and your passes are a little off and your legs are heavy...maybe 2-0 is a lot worse than 1-0. Maybe that goal, and many more like it have been doing more damage than anyone knows.

[wcflyer]

I can't see it like that Canoli, Bryz played a good game tonight, maybe it was his fault he didn't score a hat trick too. The offence wasn't there tonight, some lackluster play, is it that hard to put in a 60 minute effort? You can't take one period off in this league, no matter who you are playing. For some odd reason, the Oilers have the Flyers number, read somewhere that Gagne was the last Flyer to score in Edmonton back in 07.

[canoli]

I know you can't see it like that - because you don't want to. That's fine. You're looking at the game and calling it like you see it. I agree with you - about the game. I was trying to speak to the bigger picture that's all.

Some nights your best shooters miss the net, the goalie has an answer for everything...etc. Those nights, for a chance to win, you need your goaltender to be absolutely at his best, to lock it down and bail out the team by covering for their mistakes. Bryzgalov didn't do that, he let one in he should've had. Again.

I have no idea whether 1-0 going into the 3rd changes the outcome. No one will ever know. But these soft goals have to be wearing on the skaters and the coaches. I know they're wearing on the fans.

Maybe that was Bryzgalov's best - (only 1 bad goal is a "win" for Bryzgalov and he did make some good saves) - but if that's his best...well I don't know what to say anymore.

[The Quigster]

In my opinion Bryzo should have had both goals scored. How can a team concentrate on scoring,when they have to pick up the slack for an incompetent goal tender. The goaltender is supposed to be the Top Defenseman! Time for Homer to "Bite the Bullet" pronto!

[Podein25]

FIRE ALL THINGS!

[Lindbergh31]

Can't blame this one on Bryz, he should have that one, but he made some huge saves. Where was the offence? They had some chances but couldn't finish. Frustrating loss for sure, going to be a good one Saturday night in Calgary.

The only problem with that is Bryzgalov was brought in to "steal" some games during the year when the offence wasn't clicking or having a good night that they could count on Bryzgalov. But that hasn't been the case, he's good for giving up at least one brutal goal everytime he's in net and you won't win anything with goaltending like that. Unfortunately, the Flyers might have to go with him and silent Bob for the rest of this year, but hopefully they can get rid of Bryzgalov in the summer. He looks totally lost in net or it could be the simple fact he doesn't give a Sh!t and just collecting a pay cheque. Either way, it would be interesting to see if Holmgren inquires about Nabakov and tries to trade for him. If he does then just sit Bryzgalov's *** in the stands for the rest of the year. Maybe the Flyers can do what the Blackhawks did with Huet and "loan" him to a Russia team in the KHL and just pay the difference for his yearly salary.

[radoran]

If it wasn't for Bryzgalov the Flyers would have won 0-1.

Of course it is an article of faith among Flyer fans that it's the goalie's fault when the offense doesn't score.

"Bryzgalov" is the new "Cechmanek"

[eurofly]

Mr. Coburn made the worst play in that 2nd goal and Briere was at fault too. That was a great scoring chance and if Bryz would have saved it, it would have been a huge save. Coburn on the other hand could have cleared the puck out of the zone rather than pass to a guy's (Briere) skates, who was standing around like a pylon back against the rink/wall.

I really think people have just got enough of Bryz and are now blaming him of every game and giving a pass for everyone else. That's ok, but last game was a lack luster effort from the whole team and Bryz was maybe the best Flyer on the ice.

[canoli]

Of course it is an article of faith among Flyer fans that it's the goalie's fault when the offense doesn't score.

So in your view the consistently bad goaltending we've gotten this year (from both Bryz and Bob) has no discernible effect on the skaters. It doesn't increase the likelihood of mistakes or play any part in their energy level, motivation or ultimate success. Soft goals are isolated incidents and it's up to the skaters to overcome them.

We all saw the game. We know the offense didn't score. We know you can't win unless you score at least 1. Okay.

I'm just asking you to imagine what it must be like to skate in front of Bryzgalov for 6 months...seeing that 2nd goal go in, knowing (let's say you are Coburn) it was your turnover that led to the shot...and again it's in the back of the net. Can you dismiss the cumulative effect of seeing such a large percentage of "ordinary" hockey mistakes turn into goals? Might it be a reason the 2nd was so different from the 1st and 3rd in terms of energy, compete-level and number of mistakes?

[OH1FlyersFan]

The Flyers are capable of serious offensive pressure, breaking down the opposition and scoring 4, 5, 6 goals. But some nights you just don't have it. Some nights you rely on your goalie to keep you close, keep you in it.

That's the heart of it.

[canoli]

Yeah I think so too OH. I know some fans will say "come on, 2-0 isn't that different than 1-0, especially for an offense like the Flyers."

But some nights it is.

[aziz]

That was a great scoring chance and if Bryz would have saved it, it would have been a huge save. Coburn on the other hand could have cleared the puck out of the zone rather than pass to a guy's (Briere) skates, who was standing around like a pylon back against the rink/wall.

you're right, of course, that goal starts with a bad choice by coburn, continues with a bad effort by briere, and ends with a legitimate scoring opportunity from 35 feet out. that goal, all things said, is not on bryzgalov.

BUT

it turned out to be a savable shot. he needs to get those. the play in general: not his fault. the wrist shot that squeeked between his leg and arm: his fault.

if goalies were only expected to stop the shots that come off of plays where the defense was perfect, there'd be no reason to ever pay a goalie more than the league minimum. most junior goalies are going to stop shots that come from the parimeter with no screen and no deflection, and a perfect defense only allows those. the reason some guys get paid a bunch of money is because they can offer more than that, they can handle the broken plays and deal with shots where the other team has gotten the upper hand on the defense. had eberle picked a corner on bryzgalov there, then hey, that goal is on coburn and briere. the shot was from a perfect shooting area and the shooter was able to put it exactly where he wanted it. in this case, though, eberle basically put it right into bryzgalov. he threw the play away with a bad shot and handed the flyers a break. except he scored anyway.

it doesn't matter, the flyers didn't score a single goal, so that kind of by definition takes the heat off the goalies. it's not like bryzgalov let the oilers run the score up to an insurmountable total, and he did make some pretty decent saves. i'm just saying those kind of making-up-for-defensive-lapses saves are what makes a goalie worth more than $450k or whatever the min is these days. they are the saves that we are seeing the other team's goalies make, and the ones flyers goalies just, well, aren't.

last night's loss wasn't on bryzgalov, but he did his part in it.

[radoran]

So in your view the consistently bad goaltending we've gotten this year (from both Bryz and Bob) has no discernible effect on the skaters. It doesn't increase the likelihood of mistakes or play any part in their energy level, motivation or ultimate success. Soft goals are isolated incidents and it's up to the skaters to overcome them.

We all saw the game. We know the offense didn't score. We know you can't win unless you score at least 1. Okay.

I'm just asking you to imagine what it must be like to skate in front of Bryzgalov for 6 months...seeing that 2nd goal go in, knowing (let's say you are Coburn) it was your turnover that led to the shot...and again it's in the back of the net. Can you dismiss the cumulative effect of seeing such a large percentage of "ordinary" hockey mistakes turn into goals? Might it be a reason the 2nd was so different from the 1st and 3rd in terms of energy, compete-level and number of mistakes?

No, in my view the skaters need to play and score regardless of who's in goal or how many goals go in - whether a "bad goal" or a result of an egregious turnover.

But your theory holds water and, also, goes both ways. Because this is a team game and teams win and lose as teams.

Can you imagine what it's like to play as a goalie and have the entire team break to leave the zone right before a turnover leaves a 3-on-1 in the offensive zone in front of you? Or have a dumb penalty lead to a power play and your PK coverage breaks down? Or not have a defense who can move the two guys out of your crease? Or guys who don't clear the zone with 3, 4, 5 whacks at the stick. This has affected not only Bryz, but Bob as well.

And, no, not EVERY turnover or breakdown has gone in. Bryzgalov had some big saves and has had some big games. Like the Islanders game in which the Flyers ran into another "hot goalie."

Nabokov. Pavelec. Dubnyk.

What do they have in common? They play for godawful, wretched teams (the Isles probably the best of the bunch). And the Flyers play DOWN to that level. They have for YEARS. It hasn't mattered who's in goal, who's behind the bench or even who's skating.

My comment on that? BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

But you know what? It's called "hockey" - it's what happens. Teams win and lose as teams. Or they break apart and are worthless. Edmonton and Winnipeg can step up at home against the Flyers and be that team that wins "on any given Sunday." Even with Bryz in goal, I don't see either of them beating the Flyers in a seven game series.

That was JVR's point and more people were looking to jump all over him for "excusing" Bryzgalov instead of hearing a young player extol one of the most important parts of the game of hockey - playing as a team, winning as a team, losing as a team, BEING a team.

Bryz has given up bad goal after bad goal. Obviuously. But, the "second goal" isn't "the reason" the team lost the game. The team lost the game because they didn't score. At all. Against Edmonton - the next-to-worst team in the league. Against Dubnyk. DUBNYK!

Yet, again, the next morning it's "oh, Bryz, Bryz, Bryz."

You wanna bet if it was Bob in goal, of course, it would have been "why can't we score against Edmonton?"

'cause I will.

[canoli]

I don't know what we'd be saying today if Bob had been in net. Maybe (i can "maybe" with anyone!) we would be saying "Alright! Bob should be our #1, scoreless tie and we actually WIN the stupid shootout for once!"

As far as my theory cutting both ways, you're right. But I would refer you to Aziz's post directly above. Of course it's a team game but when oh when does our "legit #1" steal us a win? Against the 29th team in the League...

The whole thing about goaltending last night is moot, obviously, when the guys don't score even 1 goal. Sure. And I know I'm reaching when I say "maybe if he makes that save things would've been different." But frankly right now I'm open to anything - any explanation for why Dubnyk outplays Bryzgalov and why Edmonton has our number...

[albertaflyer]

I don't know what we'd be saying today if Bob had been in net. Maybe (i can "maybe" with anyone!) we would be saying "Alright! Bob should be our #1, scoreless tie and we actually WIN the stupid shootout for once!"

As far as my theory cutting both ways, you're right. But I would refer you to Aziz's post directly above. Of course it's a team game but when oh when does our "legit #1" steal us a win? Against the 29th team in the League...

The whole thing about goaltending last night is moot, obviously, when the guys don't score even 1 goal. Sure. And I know I'm reaching when I say "maybe if he makes that save things would've been different." But frankly right now I'm open to anything - any explanation for why Dubnyk outplays Bryzgalov and why Edmonton has our number...

I was at the game last night and both goals were right in front of me. First one not much he could do. Puck took a crazy bounce off the boards right on Hall's stick. Second one he should have had but the whole play should never of happened. Bad give away and no one went after Eberle. As far as Bryz, he actually played pretty well last night. Seemed a little more confident. Wasn't going down as quick on most plays and made a couple really nice saves. The Flyers played a parimeter game last night and never went to the net at all. With a goalie Dubnyk's size that's not going to cut it. As fas Bob, watched him in the warm up and he couldn't stop a beach ball in warm up. You can tell Bryz is frustrated with his game. Even in warm ups he was getting mad when the guys would score on him.

[canoli]

Thanks for the recap AL - sorry you had to see another Flyers' loss in Edmonton. Unfortunately it seems that's all we can do up there the past 10 years...

I saw what you saw re: Bryzgalov. He did look more confident, in control, more aggressive and aware of the play. I honestly think it's the best he's looked all year. When I saw him dive after the loose pucks and actually get there to smother them I finally saw the Bryzgalov I expected to see all year: aggressive, smart and competitive.

The "but" you knew was coming is this: he still has to have that Eberle goal. I'm sorry but it's inexcusable at this level and at this point in Bryzgalov's season. If he was having a solid year you can forgive occasional mistakes like that. But when it's just more of the same... "inexcusable" is the wrong word I guess, more like "predictable."

[radoran]

As far as my theory cutting both ways, you're right. But I would refer you to Aziz's post directly above. Of course it's a team game but when oh when does our "legit #1" steal us a win? Against the 29th team in the League...

Bryz is 2.23/.915 in 7 starts and 8 appearances in February. True story.

His record is 3-2-1 over that stretch. In one of the losses and the OTL loss the Flyers scored a total of zero goals. In the shootout he made no saves and the Flyers scored... no goals.

He's been giving up a bad goal a game, yes. There were two bad goals in Winnipeg, yes. The Pittsburgh game was a travesty, yes.

But, one might argue 2.23/.915 is enough to "steal" a few wins against the dregs of the league like Edmonton, Winnipeg and the Islanders (1-1-1).

Well, Bryz put up 1.95/.919 combined against those three teams. True story.

The Flyers scored 1.67 GPG.

The one they won they scored five goals and Bryz gave up four.

And they won.

The two they didn't score any?

They lost.

[Mad Dog]

As far as my theory cutting both ways, you're right. But I would refer you to Aziz's post directly above. Of course it's a team game but when oh when does our "legit #1" steal us a win? Against the 29th team in the League...

And that to me, righgt there, more than anything, underlies the root of the frustration we are all having with him.

I would be willing to overlook stinker games – that always happened and will happen to the best of goalies in the world. Nobody is immune to bad games.

I would even be willing to overlook the fact that he had multiple games in which he was the sole reason the team lost.

Hell, I *even* can look the other way when it comes to the fact that he has been dreadful ALL SEASON LONG. Well, maybe not quite look the other way, but OK.

But what frustrates me the most is the goalie of his caliber *should* be winning games by himself, or at least put the team in a position to win games where they were outplayed by an opposing team by a countrymile.

I don’t remember a single game where Bryzgalov had a jaw-dropping performance and absolutely stole the victory. Can you? An opening night against Boston - maybe. But that was the first game with so many story lines. I am sure he was excited and really wanted to put his best effort forward. And the whole team was solid. But after that, can you recall at least one game in which he was absolutely sensational? One stinking game? I can’t. Was Bryzglaov named a #1 star in any games this season? I know he had 2 shutouts this season, but again, was he really the reason for that or the whole team just locked down on defense?

And that’s the issue. BIG issue! I probably sound like a broken record, but Esche, Chechmanek, Niitty, Biron, Boucher….. even terrible Leighton, had those games where they were phenomenal, where they were a reason the team won the game. How can a goalie of his statue not have a single game in which he carried his team? How can he not have a single save which would be a momentum changing play and turn the game around? How can he not pull a victory in a game where the team had no business winning?

That to me is the root of the problem; not so much the fact that he’s been bad.

[canoli]

The two they didn't score any?

They lost.

Damn. Really? Why - why oh why can we never win ONE without scoring? Is that too much to ask?! This team is cursed that's all there is to it.

In all seriousness thanks for the facts. They do tend to get in the way of my bch-session here but I'll forgive you for posting them, but I wish you would open your mind to the possibility that much of the story is untold by the numbers. Forget the numbers for a minute and try to imagine what the skaters are thinking about their starting goaltender. Extrapolate from that and see if it perhaps plays a part in why the 2nd period last night was so different from the other 2. I know, I admit, it's a lot of "maybe" and "imagining." But there has to be a cumulative effect going on in that locker room and I'm certain we're seeing it on the ice. Not every night, maybe not even last night. But it's there and it's hurting this young team.

[wcflyer]

"You're looking at the game and calling it like you see it. I agree with you - about the game. I was trying to speak to the bigger picture that's all."

@canoli

Ok you are talking about the season, fair enough, but I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. That's two decent games in a row for Bryz. Nothing worked last night, special teams, f/o's loss, no traffic to the net, blind passes, too many indvidual efforts, no one moving their feet all the time, I can't blame Bryz for that. Looks like Bryz is going to get the majority of starts down the stretch and he is looking more confident. I am starting to be concerned about Briere, JVR and Read, whom have all hit a wall. My guess would be that Homer goes for a veteran forward next.

[albertaflyer]

The one thing I notice last night is after Bryz would make a good save the guys on the ice would come by and give him a tap on the pads. Kind of like showing support. You don't see guys doing that often. But I noticed it quite a few times last night. Even after the Eberle goal. Couple of the guys came by and gave him a tap on the pads. I think the guys know they have get him going. The one guy that looked terrible last night was Coburne. He was a give away machine. The two goals were direct results of give aways by Coburne. He struggled the whole game. The Flyers just plain didn't battle last night. They lost almost every battle along the boards. Which they shouldn"t given the Oilers size. All I can say is Lavy was fired up after the game.

[radoran]

And that to me, righgt there, more than anything, underlies the root of the frustration we are all having with him.

I would be willing to overlook stinker games – that always happened and will happen to the best of goalies in the world. Nobody is immune to bad games.

I would even be willing to overlook the fact that he had multiple games in which he was the sole reason the team lost.

Hell, I *even* can look the other way when it comes to the fact that he has been dreadful ALL SEASON LONG. Well, maybe not quite look the other way, but OK.

But what frustrates me the most is the goalie of his caliber *should* be winning games by himself, or at least put the team in a position to win games where they were outplayed by an opposing team by a countrymile.

I don’t remember a single game where Bryzgalov had a jaw-dropping performance and absolutely stole the victory. Can you? An opening night against Boston - maybe. But that was the first game with so many story lines. I am sure he was excited and really wanted to put his best effort forward. And the whole team was solid. But after that, can you recall at least one game in which he was absolutely sensational? One stinking game? I can’t. Was Bryzglaov named a #1 star in any games this season? I know he had 2 shutouts this season, but again, was he really the reason for that or the whole team just locked down on defense?

And that’s the issue. BIG issue! I probably sound like a broken record, but Esche, Chechmanek, Niitty, Biron, Boucher….. even terrible Leighton, had those games where they were phenomenal, where they were a reason the team won the game. How can a goalie of his statue not have a single game in which he carried his team? How can he not have a single save which would be a momentum changing play and turn the game around? How can he not pull a victory in a game where the team had no business winning?

That to me is the root of the problem; not so much the fact that he’s been bad.

I like a great deal of this, but as my previous post showed, there are your own lying eyes to worry about.

"Not a single game" - well, he opened the season with a 2-1 win over Boston and shutout the Devils. At the end of October there were three stright wins over Carolina, Buffalo and Columbus with the tight 3-2 win over Buffalo and blowouts over the other two masking that he didn't give up more than two goals a game. A six-game win streak in December including a tough 5-4 win over the Sabres that was the only game in the stretch where he gave up more than two masked again by he offensive juggernaut that never scored less than three goals a game and had five in three of them. The 37-save 3-2 win in Ottawa we might forget about for the 6-4 loss at home that followed it.

Did Bryz help "win" any of those games or did the offense just blow them out?

Even now he's 3-2-1 against the Division despite being 2.28/.909. He's 2-0, 0.40/.983 against the Devils. Yes, the Rags and Pens numbers are a cause for concern. Who does have good numbers against the Rags?

Quite frankly, looking at the splits suprised the hell out of me.

My main point, to address @canoli valid and "likeable" post I got while writing this, is *not* at all to absolve Bryzgalov or whitewash his "effect" on the lockerroom or on the ice.

The point is that the focus on one guy - the goalie - can lead to a myopic fixation on that being the problem when, as noted above, it's a team game and the team wins or loses as a team.

[OH1FlyersFan]

You wanna bet if it was Bob in goal, of course, it would have been "why can't we score against Edmonton?"

But we'll never know because he wasn't. Who knows - maybe the flip side of that argument is true. Maybe if Bob was in goal he would have made those stops giving us a chance to score in overtime. But the way Dubnyk was playing, I'm not sure we would ever have scored.....