Mike Yeo NOT returning as Head Coach for Flyers / Who do you want?

[GratefulFlyers]

Tortorella makes himself the star of the show and imho that’s the last thing the Flyers need right now, a head coach with a huge ego whose whole schtick is “My Way or the Hwy!”
 

But Torts could very well be the right choice if the suits want, or think the team needs a hammer. Then again maybe a more patient, mild mannered type will be best. Hell I have no idea. I honestly didn’t have much to gripe about with Yeo. 

Frankly any intelligent recommendation requires more day to day knowledge of the players plus more inside info about the direction Fletcher and Co. want to take the Flyers.

[elmatus]

I just don’t buy the logic that these players don’t try hard enough. These guys are professionals in a league that requires absurd discipline to make in the first place, let alone stick around once there.

 

It’s far more logical to assume they are trying their best, but their best isn’t good enough to contend, both individually and collectively. Getting a guy to “keep them accountable” feels odd to me. They’re not children. Most of them are probably way harder on themselves than any coach would be. 

[OccamsRazor]

16 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I just don’t buy the logic that these players don’t try hard enough.

 

 

It feels like a rudderless ship adrift....

[elmatus]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

It feels like a rudderless ship adrift....

it feels like a canoe trying to compete in a league of speed boats. 

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I just don’t buy the logic that these players don’t try hard enough. These guys are professionals in a league that requires absurd discipline to make in the first place, let alone stick around once there.

 

It’s far more logical to assume they are trying their best, but their best isn’t good enough to contend, both individually and collectively. Getting a guy to “keep them accountable” feels odd to me. They’re not children. Most of them are probably way harder on themselves than any coach would be. 

And your explanation for the decline of Konecny or Provy is....?

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, FireDillabaugh said:

This is truth regarding many players in the league.  And, VERY MUCH of that is because of the coaching they have, and coaches they have had during their careers.  However, unfortunately, this is absolutely not the truth regarding all players in this league.  And, it's simply a fact that laziness in players is a very contagious trait that can badly infect a roster.  And, on top of that, when you have some players that have GMs who suddenly are willing to pay them 4 or 5 times more than they were previously getting paid, the complacency trait can become present.  Which is also a contagious trait.  And, instead of players hating to lose more than they like to win(like Provy states many on this roster need to adopt), they become complacent and don't care to do the work needed to succeed at the NHL level.  Even if they get good coaches like AV and Therrien who try and break that complacency.  And instead, some players only see those coaches as making them work too hard, they aren't willing to do that, and their incompetent front offices take the easy route and fire those coaches.

 

Yes, in a fantasy world, all players would hold themselves accountable, be hard on themselves, want to improve their game, and would be willing to do the work needed to succeed.  Unfortunately, we live in reality, and not a fantasy world.  And, that's why an organization needs a competent GM, staff and scouts that can identify which of these players will do that work and which won't do that work.  And why an organization needs competent coaches that can keep those players willing to do the work continuing to do the work, while their competent front office doesn't take the easy route and fire those coaches for demanding a work ethic among the players.

After reading your the majority of your posts, it's apparent you feel it's always the coach's fault

 

Homer, is that you?

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Depends what you consider playoff "success"

Making the playoffs and having a legit chance

 

2 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Correct?  Tortorella is the essence of exactly that.  Has absolutely nothing to do with being a Flyer fan or not.  Has to do with what Tortorella is in the present and what he brings to a team in the present.  Not what he brought to a team once in '03-04.

Context my friend. Don't twist things. I don't want the "just make it in" approach. That has failed over and again. But I would take that, over the schidt show on ice we all saw this year. My point to you, the Flyers have  been a playoff failure for a long time. Criticizing a SC winning coach, with a winning record and more consistent ability to lead a team to the post season, seems a bit ridiculous. The flyers keep hiring successful coaches, then fire the same because the players are unhappy. Make as many arguments as you want, 1975 keeps getting smaller in the rear view mirror

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

And your explanation for the decline of Konecny or Provy is....?

it’s a fair question. I don’t think either of them just decided they don’t care anymore, so what else could be the reasons?

[flyercanuck]

10 hours ago, CoachX said:

And your explanation for the decline of Konecny or Provy is....?

 

Fletcher and co. There's something clearly wrong with the way the franchise is being run. Those two, among others (Farabee, for one, isn't progressing like he was), were very good to great hockey players for most of their careers, until about 2 years ago. Fletcher took over 3 years ago. It probably took about a year to indoctrinate Haysees BFFdom into the entire team. When you want to build a franchise around one of the biggest, slowest, laziest overpaid MFers in the entire league, you have to know that mentality is going to fester throughout the players. Trading the farm for and then re-signing one of the dumbest idiots in the league is another giant leap into ineptitude. Bringing in broken down Yandle (hated his game in his prime...made the highlights reels as much for goals against as for) slow as molasses Thompson, there's no clue there as to where the league is going. Going? Where it's gone...years ago. 

 

 Fletcher has been managing the same way for 11 years now. His Wild team never won anything, never got out of the 2nd round (yes he drafted 4 good players in 8 drafts...amazing, actually, no it isn't ... and blundered everything else). The Flyers are now in reverse from where they were going when he took over. And the sad thing is he's sent out plenty of assets and made the team older and slower with many more bad contracts to accomplish it. 

 

 I can't even fathom how any Flyer fan can stand behind this guy. His absolute ceiling if all planets align is vanilla.

 

 edit: I see FD hit on this in the post above.

Edited May 7, 2022 by flyercanuck

[RonJeremy]

12 hours ago, elmatus said:

it feels like a canoe trying to compete in a league of speed boats. 

Or a tugboat against a cigarette boat

[CoachX]

11 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

  The organization has enough egos getting in the way with Holmgren and Fletcher already.

So does this forum

[CoachX]

9 hours ago, elmatus said:

it’s a fair question. I don’t think either of them just decided they don’t care anymore, so what else could be the reasons?

Honestly, it's been my contention that management has, since the 90's, coddled players at the cost of coaches. I feel that it is in large part due to guys like Clarke and Homer building that "culture". Bringing that to TK, he is right in the middle of a schidt storm of dysfunction. He was on a tear, and looked like he was about to solidify himself as an impact player. I think that was derailed by what happened that season, and based on things I was reading, the Jake's and JVRs were an issue in the locker room. Next thing you know, another coach gets axed. Same story, and here we are

[CoachX]

@FireDillabaugh

 

And your choice for head coach is?

 

Enlighten us with your wisdom 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

When you want to build a franchise around one of the biggest, slowest, laziest overpaid MFers in the entire league, you have to know that mentality is going to fester throughout the players.

 

This is "it" in a nutshell. Hayes and Ristolainen are core players that the younger guys - regardless how they feel about them personally - have no choice but to follow into battle. And it's not only when they're on the ice as @flyercanuck said it festers - in games in practices in tape sessions etc. All season long. If you're a younger guy what are you supposed to think, knowing your GM values these 2 guys the way he does? What he's paying them, what he gave up to get them...etc.

 

I said before I'm not blaming these 2 for everything - it's not their fault anyway it's Fletcher's.

 

[flyercanuck]

20 minutes ago, CoachX said:

So does this forum

 

Back off, peasant!

[CoachX]

1 minute ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

This is "it" in a nutshell. Hayes and Ristolainen are core players that the younger guys - regardless how they feel about them personally - have no choice but to follow into battle. And it's not only when they're on the ice as @flyercanuck said it festers - in games in practices in tape sessions etc. All season long. If you're a younger guy what are you supposed to think, knowing your GM values these 2 guys the way he does? What he's paying them, what he gave up to get them...etc.

 

I said before I'm not blaming these 2 for everything - it's not their fault anyway it's Fletcher's.

 

If the "young" guys are letting their game go to schidt because of Hayes and Risto, then they aren't the right players. But which young guys are we talking about? York? Allison? Brink? Hart? Farabee?

 

I think the players responsible are named jvr, jake (when here), konecny, laughton, giroux, hayes, coots, provy, Thompson (), Braun, etc

[CoachX]

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Back off, peasant!

Will Smith, is that you?

[flyercanuck]

16 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Will Smith, is that you?

 

If it was, you'd be cartwheeling down an escalator right about now! 

[flyercanuck]

19 minutes ago, CoachX said:

If the "young" guys are letting their game go to schidt because of Hayes and Risto, then they aren't the right players. But which young guys are we talking about? York? Allison? Brink? Hart? Farabee?

 

I think the players responsible are named jvr, jake (when here), konecny, laughton, giroux, hayes, coots, provy, Thompson (), Braun, etc

 

The first three guys you named haven't been on the team long enough for the Hayseeism to "take".

[GratefulFlyers]

I think the Hayes / Ristolainen "effect" - like has been said - festers. It's part of the team. None of the younger guys are saying "I wanna be like Hayes" - that's not what I meant. But they see him every day, getting paid 3, 4x as much as they do - and he rarely even works up a sweat. I don't know about in practice but in games ... Ask yourself is he someone you'd want to follow into battle? Ask the same about Ristolainen.

 

Me I'd want a leader who is better than I am at my job. That's why captains are usually the best player but sometimes not the best captains. But it makes sense - the veterans should be some of your best players and Clearly these 2 are not. For me that's enough said.

[flyercanuck]

Just now, GratefulFlyers said:

I think the Hayes / Ristolainen "effect" - like has been said - festers. It's part of the team. None of the younger guys are saying "I wanna be like Hayes" - that's not what I meant. But they see him every day, getting paid 3, 4x as much as they do - and he rarely even works up a sweat. I don't know about in practice but in games ... Ask yourself is he someone you'd want to follow into battle? Ask the same about Ristolainen.

 

Me I'd want a leader who is better than I am at my job. That's why captains are usually the best player but sometimes not the best captains. But it makes sense - the veterans should be some of your best players and Clearly these 2 are not. For me that's enough said.

 

Hayes wasn't wanted by the team that drafted him, nor the team that gave up a roster player, a 1st and a 4th for him. After only 20 games they saw he wasn't what they wanted. How isn't that a red flag? But instead, let's build the team around him?!? WTF?

[GratefulFlyers]

34 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Hayes wasn't wanted by the team that drafted him, nor the team that gave up a roster player, a 1st and a 4th for him. After only 20 games they saw he wasn't what they wanted. How isn't that a red flag? But instead, let's build the team around him?!? WTF?

 

too true. And I'm afraid all we have left is to hope that the suits realize the error of their ways and jettison these 2 clowns. They'll take a hit on the market but that's better than waiting 5 more years for the contracts to expire.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

too true. And I'm afraid all we have left is to hope that the suits realize the error of their ways and jettison these 2 clowns. They'll take a hit on the market but that's better than waiting 5 more years for the contracts to expire.

 

 

 

Well after watching Risto stink out the joint all season long, we've seen what the suits do with their error. Extend it.

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Honestly, it's been my contention that management has, since the 90's, coddled players at the cost of coaches. I feel that it is in large part due to guys like Clarke and Homer building that "culture". Bringing that to TK, he is right in the middle of a schidt storm of dysfunction. He was on a tear, and looked like he was about to solidify himself as an impact player. I think that was derailed by what happened that season, and based on things I was reading, the Jake's and JVRs were an issue in the locker room. Next thing you know, another coach gets axed. Same story, and here we are

Yeah, I could see that. It seems too simple to be the whole story, but it may very well be a part of it. 
 

I also think good players become great when they have other great players pushing them to be better. With really just one exception, this team has lacked top talent for years now. It’s possible TK would see a resurgence if he had an even better player around to compare to. 
 

That’s not me saying you’re wrong though. I could see what you’ve noted as being part of the issue too. With the possible exception of AV, who i do think was a good coach trying to do much with little, other coaches we’ve had during the Giroux era have been pretty terrible.

 

i don’t think it’s just one thing. Is bad player management part of it? Very likely. Is bad coaching part? Definitely. Have they also just frankly lacked the talent to truly contend? Absolutely. It’s almost certainly all of these things, and probably not great luck sprinkled in too (e.g Patrick)

 

Ultimately though, this stuff only matters insofar as the brass will do something about them. That seems unlikely right now, as evidenced by the “aggressive retool” mentality. This team needs an overhaul not a paint job. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by elmatus

[flyer4ever]

On 5/3/2022 at 8:15 AM, pilldoc said:

We all knew he was a lame duck for the last half of the season,but I guess this makes it official...

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2022/5/3/23054697/philadelphia-flyers-head-coach-mike-yeo-not-returning-report-kevin-weekes

 

I've heard names such as Dineen and Tochett.  Personally as much as I loved Tochett as a player, I want this organization to go outside Flyers history and former players... (yeah I know AV was outside the Flyers organization, but you get my point.

 

Who does everyone want?

More importantly...who is available?????

 

Barry Trotz fired this morning.