Rumor Flyers interested in Dustin Brown?

[AndyS]

So the bottom line is, Bernier hasn't really done anything to make us believe he's better than Bob. His career numbers are no better than Bob's, regardless of their respective pedigrees. In Bob's case we can at least argue that he is still adjusting to the North American game and ice size. And again, there's the little problem of the $51 million dollar man in front of either one of them. Bob or Bernier... honestly it wouldn't matter much to me, but backup goalie is not the team's biggest problem imo.

My point is that I see Bernier as the possible long-term solution in net for the Flyers.

Bryz (despite the contact)? Not so much. Same with Bob. (Bob, as someone else has already noted, seems to be Nitty part deux.)

[doom88]

So the bottom line is, Bernier hasn't really done anything to make us believe he's better than Bob. His career numbers are no better than Bob's, regardless of their respective pedigrees. In Bob's case we can at least argue that he is still adjusting to the North American game and ice size. And again, there's the little problem of the $51 million dollar man in front of either one of them. Bob or Bernier... honestly it wouldn't matter much to me, but backup goalie is not the team's biggest problem imo.

Thank you for posting that. I absolutely agree, AND, Bob is already on the roster. No loss of players or picks needed.

[Phillygrump]

@JackStraw

Bernier would be a nice pick up if you can buy out Bryz's contract under the new CBA. Then you can have 2 young goalies to go with the rest of this young core. Let the two of them fight it out to see who gets the starting job. Obviously that is the only way Bernier makes sense. Otherwise, who cares, we're stuck with Bryzgalov.

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw

Bernier would be a nice pick up if you can buy out Bryz's contract under the new CBA. Then you can have 2 young goalies to go with the rest of this young core. Let the two of them fight it out to see who gets the starting job. Obviously that is the only way Bernier makes sense. Otherwise, who cares, we're stuck with Bryzgalov.

I think we're stuck with Bryz. Even if there is a buy out option in the new CBA, the way things look right now I think I'd lean toward buying out Pronger. I think there is a better chance that Bryz will return to form than Pronger. But both are bad situations for the Flyers.

[Phillygrump]

But don't you think you could get better value than having that amount of money wrapped up in a goaltender that performs averagely at best. I agree that Bryz's play has the potential to pick up, but will it pick up enough to merit the cap money he is representing?

[JackStraw]

But don't you think you could get better value than having that amount of money wrapped up in a goaltender that performs averagely at best. I agree that Bryz's play has the potential to pick up, but will it pick up enough to merit the cap money he is representing?

I don't know, but if Pronger is really done then the that will tie the Flyers hands for years. They can get cap relief from LTIR, but there's a limit. So that means 5 more years after this one that they'd be restricted in what they can do in case of injuries. Bryz will probably never play up to his contract, but there's hope that he can be at least respectable. And if he does pick up his play, maybe they could actually trade him. At least the possibility would exist.

[aziz]

brown plays a much more aggressive game than jvr as well. i'm not even going to entertain the conjecture that he starts **** and then shirks responsibility.. this is an adult discussion we're trying to have here.

like i said, i'm just going from what i'm reading and his monk-like penalty numbers. i'm not sure how one of the leading hitters in the league has fewer PIMs and as many fights as danny briere. tough to see how that guy can be answering the bell very often, you know?

and then there's stuff like this, from a kings blog:

The more important question is what do the L.A. Kings want to become? My opinion, with Dean Lombardi at the helm, is a team that wins with elite goaltending, a deep and talented defense from 1-6 (with a defensive defenseman and an offensive one on each pairing) and a forward crop that, from top to bottom, fits the consistent mold of defensive responsible, mean, edgy, smart, smash mouth group that can skate, hit, fight and score 20-30 goals per forward in the top 6, an average of 10-15 goals per forward on the third line and a bruising energy infused fourth line. Dustin Brown is average, at best, defensively. He can hit. He is not mean. He is not edgy. He is smash mouth in his hitting only. He cannot fight. He is good for 15-25 goals per season and is wildly inconsistent from week to week. His hockey IQ is questionable.

i dunno. i don't see him play much, so i'm totally just extrapolating from what people who do see him play say, and the kind of stats his play generates...and the combination does not suggest a particularly agressive game. outside of the hitting. and given that hitting tends to lead to PIM-inducing confrontations...to escape those without heading to the box very often he kind has to be saying, "no, thanks" quite a lot, no?

Edited February 25, 2012 by aziz

[aziz]

That might just have to do with Quick's numbers this season.

maybe, but lundqvist's numbers are better, and biron has played a fair number of games. thomas set records last year, but rask started 27 games. quick is taking a strangely large share of the load for a team who likes its backup. the bit that stands out to me is the 5 sets of back-to-backs that quick played both ends of. that's weird.

[SoCalFlyfan]

@aziz

I watch Dustin Brown a lot and you are right, he's a 'drive by' hitter and tends to disappear into the shadows when things get nasty. However, one thing he does is draw a lot of retaliation type penalties and can get under the skin of the opposition at times with his stealthy hits. Might be a nice thing to have in the playoffs when restraint and looking the other way is key.

[aziz]

Might be a nice thing to have in the playoffs when restraint and looking the other way is key.

that's a really good point

[Phillygrump]

maybe, but lundqvist's numbers are better, and biron has played a fair number of games. thomas set records last year, but rask started 27 games. quick is taking a strangely large share of the load for a team who likes its backup. the bit that stands out to me is the 5 sets of back-to-backs that quick played both ends of. that's weird.

Yeah, also Quick is only 26 and fighting for a playoff spot while NY is running away with the east a little bit.

[aziz]

Yeah, also Quick is only 26 and fighting for a playoff spot while NY is running away with the east a little bit.

well, a)it's been that way all season, not just a recent developement, though you are right, bernier has played even less than normal in the last two months..2 starts out of 22 total games in 2012.

and b)doesn't that mean LA is afraid they can't win in front of bernier? they are running quick into the ground; would they do that if they felt they didn't have to?

a tell will be tonight. quick played tuesday and wednesday in losing efforts, got rung up for 7 goals on 40 shots. tonight would be a logical time to give bernier a start, let quick recoup after a pair of less-than-stellar outings. should be interesting. the dailyfaceoff.com says quick was off the ice first this morning.....

[Phillygrump]

doesn't that mean LA is afraid they can't win in front of bernier? they are running quick into the ground; would they do that if they felt they didn't have to?

I suppose you can look at it that way too, but it would seem to me to just ride the guy who is playing that well. You know what you have there.

[Bakanekimiwa]

like i said, i'm just going from what i'm reading and his monk-like penalty numbers. i'm not sure how one of the leading hitters in the league has fewer PIMs and as many fights as danny briere. tough to see how that guy can be answering the bell very often, you know?

and then there's stuff like this, from a kings blog:

i dunno. i don't see him play much, so i'm totally just extrapolating from what people who do see him play say, and the kind of stats his play generates...and the combination does not suggest a particularly agressive game. outside of the hitting. and given that hitting tends to lead to PIM-inducing confrontations...to escape those without heading to the box very often he kind has to be saying, "no, thanks" quite a lot, no?

I agree with what you're saying, I just look at his hitting from the perspective that he's wearing down opponents D men. Hitting is an important part of an aggressive forecheck. I, quite frankly, don't care if he fights. And as someone else said, he draws retaliation penalties and skates away... That's fine by me.

I mean, I'm not 100% advocating a trade of JVR for brown, but I do think that there is some sense to it. They're both under-performing, so they both come with ?s. they both bring a different type of game that each team could be interested in.

But, I wouldn't make the trade. It just seems like swapping projects. I'm still disappointed with JVR though. Is this the JVR we'll see for the next 6 seasons? Can he ever play to the level of last years playoffs at any level of consistency!? He's still very young, but it's just seeming to be more likely that he won't, and beyond that, he's not offering us big hits or fantastic 2-way play. At the end of he day, he's just a meek Dustin brown who is oft injured and about to cost us $1.25m more per year for like 3 years longer.

I hope he turns it around... And does it here.

[Bakanekimiwa]

well, a)it's been that way all season, not just a recent developement, though you are right, bernier has played even less than normal in the last two months..2 starts out of 22 total games in 2012.

and b)doesn't that mean LA is afraid they can't win in front of bernier? they are running quick into the ground; would they do that if they felt they didn't have to?

a tell will be tonight. quick played tuesday and wednesday in losing efforts, got rung up for 7 goals on 40 shots. tonight would be a logical time to give bernier a start, let quick recoup after a pair of less-than-stellar outings. should be interesting. the dailyfaceoff.com says quick was off the ice first this morning.....

I'm not the most ardent kings fan, but from what I've read it's more that quick has just been outstanding and keeping them in games they shouldn't have been in. It's shameful how much they've lost with him putting up a 1.96 GA and .931 S

[SoCalFlyfan]

@Bakanekimiwa

I would forget about Brown and get a bigger tougher guy like Paul Gaustad that can play on any line and chip in some goals.

[aziz]

I mean, I'm not 100% advocating a trade of JVR for brown, but I do think that there is some sense to it. They're both under-performing, so they both come with ?s. they both bring a different type of game that each team could be interested in.

i guess that's what i'm getting at, kind of. i don't know that brown is underperforming. he's kinda on an average pace for his career. ~55point guy...maybe he comes in a little under that this season. in anycase, that is the neighborhood of his potential production. i have a tough time getting wow'd up over 55 points. jvr, on the other hand, still strikes me as a kid who might get up into that 80pt range, if he can put the pieces together. i'm losing faith that he's gonna, but the potential is there.

brown is a hitting machine, and you're right, that has value. 55points for a guy in the top few hitters in the league isn't bad.. but it isn't the most amazing thing, ever, either.

i wouldn't cry if jvr were moved, but i think more than brown needs to come back for him. people talk about jvr and a pick for brown, and i just can't figure out why. hits all by them self aren't > points, and near as i can tell, it's really all he brings or will ever bring.

[Mad Dog]

@aziz

Regarding Bernier, one thing I've heard (or read) is that Darryl Sutter is absolutely in love with Quick and has been before he even came to LA. When he took over from Terry Murray, he made it known that Quick would be starting tons of games: literally as many as humanly possible for a goalie to start. And I do believe that most of the starts Bernier got was under Murray, while under Sutter he hasn't seen the light of day.

I don't know if it's comparable to Scott Clemensen, who proved to be a much better goalie than his # of starts indicated when in NJ. But he just happened to be backing up the best goalie in the world. It was a lose-lose situation for him at the time. He only had a chance to start a laughable amount of games, unles Brodeur would go down with an injury. Quite possible Bernier is in a similar boat - just my guess.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Mad Dog

[Vanflyer]

@Bakanekimiwa

"brown is a fair amount cheaper($1.5m/yr cap hit cheaper) and signed for 4 years less than jvr. he's only 5 years older than jvr. so it's not like he's on any type of decline. in fact, Brown hasn't missed a game in very near 3 years. "

You are doing a bit of squigly math there my friend. Brown makes 3.175 to JVRS 4.25 next year. 1.075 difference- not 1.5. The 5 years difference are actually a big deal when you are comparing a 22 year old to a 27 year old. The 22 year old has projection to improve whereas the 27 year old is pretty much already arrived and you already know what you are going to get.

The other part regarding the contract is also a detriment to me. So, I trade for brown and he is gone in 2 seasons as a UFA, whereas I have JVR locked up for 5 more years??

Brown is a 48 point a year guy. JVR was on pace to score 50 this year before all his injuries.

[Vanflyer]

@JackStraw

"I think we're stuck with Bryz. Even if there is a buy out option in the new CBA, the way things look right now I think I'd lean toward buying out Pronger. I think there is a better chance that Bryz will return to form than Pronger. But both are bad situations for the Flyers."

I am in the opposite camp. If pronger decides to LTIR because of severe post-concussion syndroms for good, there really is no way medically to prove he is bullshitting (which it certainly looks like he is not).

While bryz may or may not return to form (whatever form that was / is), to me it is not worth the gamble of having him on the roster. If I can get him off the roster, I make a move for Schneider.

[pilldoc]

@JackStraw

"I think we're stuck with Bryz. Even if there is a buy out option in the new CBA, the way things look right now I think I'd lean toward buying out Pronger. I think there is a better chance that Bryz will return to form than Pronger. But both are bad situations for the Flyers."

I am in the opposite camp. If pronger decides to LTIR because of severe post-concussion syndroms for good, there really is no way medically to prove he is bullshitting (which it certainly looks like he is not).

While bryz may or may not return to form (whatever form that was / is), to me it is not worth the gamble of having him on the roster. If I can get him off the roster, I make a move for Schneider.

I believe Pronger's career is finished. From listening to the interview with his wife, he has not had 2 good days back to back. Considering he was gonna tak to Premeau is not a good sign IMO. The Flyers will get cap relief once he goes on LTIR.

Butt Puss Bryz is a total head job. His head is so messed up he does not know if he is coming or going. For whatever reason we got the broken Bryz. I agree, the Bryz experiment is over. Even though I have suggested in another post maybe, just maybe he might get his act together next year.

With that being said, I agree with you Van, if we can move Bryz and his contract, I believe we will be better off.

[Vanflyer]

@pilldoc

The only thing I dont know is what are the LTIR ceiling restrictions that Jack refers to. Pronger would need to be LTIR every year for the remainder of his contract (ala Lappy and Rathje, etc.). I know we can be 10% over the cap in the summer, but then need to be compliant by the start of the season. That essentially is Prongers salary.

[Spinorama]

Seriously, though, I don't see the point in Brown. And I wouldn't give up JVR for him straight up. Having watched some Kings, I just think his effort sometimes makes JVR look determined.

I haven't watched much Kings so I'll take your word for it. Yikes

[Spinorama]

With Brown's departure, Richards will become captain. It's like we've seen this script before.

Is Stevens still with the organization? If he is, I'd like to think he'd suggest they did otherwise. Hell, if I'm Mike Richards, I suggest they do otherwise.