Don't Trade JvR

[doom88]

Yeah, you don't see a problem with that? Simmonds plays 100%, can't JVR? Sheesh, even 70% with his ability would be wonderful.

[OccamsRazor]

No I don't think it's "for the sake of a trade" at all, I think it's because JVR's m.o. is well-established and it's an unlikeable one to Flyers' fans.

Let me put it this way, I'd rather have Aaron Asham than JVR. I'd take a guy like Steve Ott over him any day too. Neither of those trades would be good for the Flyers straight-up, of course not. But put together the right package, get a guy who enjoys competing to win his shifts and I'd be happy to move JVR, especially before next year and his $4+ million cap hit kicks in.

That is my idea as well. My biggest problem with him is he needs more consistency it is maddening some times...make that most times.

[aziz]

we have arguably the most talented young player that we've had since Lindros, we're ready to give up on him at the ripe old age of 22.

....

did you really just go there?

lindros scored 115 points at 22. jvr can't break 40, so far.

[mojo1917]

@aziz

in fairness he did say since Lindros...

who would the other top pick, can't miss, crazy talented Flyers be since the big E ?

Gagne, Carter, Wyowitka ? Giroux ? he lit the Q up but was considered" smallish and needed the right situation to thrive " in the NHL

i'm probably missing a couple of guys, but there haven't been a whole bunch of guys with JvRs hands , size , speed...

you're right too, he doesn't compare favorably with Lindros. at all.

[flyerrod]

anyway, when i look at jvr i can't help but see patrick sharp, not that their styles are similar, just the second he's on a different team he'll turn into the player we want, and he'll kill us in the playoffs. Sharp was the hawks best player in the scf

The difference is JVR has been given ample opportunity to prove himself, Sharp NEVER was. Sharp was used as a 3rd liner by Hitch.....Sharp was never even given the time of day by Ruxpin's favorite coach and he exploded as soon as he hit the ice in Chicago....

[mojo1917]

@flyerrod

this is where I say not playing junior hurt JvR in a lot of ways, those kids play a pile of games then have a pile of tournament games and then some get called up for a sniff of the bigs after the season if they're really good.... it is a totally different culture than the US college system and i think, with JvR we're seeing him developmentally and with a maturity level that is similar to where he'd have been after his first season and a half of playing in a for a serious canadian junior hockey league like the Q or WHL.

he hasn't been immersed in the game the way the kids that play junior are until he got to the game's highest level. tough place to get your OJT .

[JackStraw]

....

did you really just go there?

lindros scored 115 points at 22. jvr can't break 40, so far.

Have the Flyers had any other young player since Lindros who was more talented than JVR? I'm talking drafted players specifically. And talent, not necessarily production.

[JackStraw]

Gagne, Carter, Wyowitka ? Giroux ? he lit the Q up but was considered" smallish and needed the right situation to thrive " in the NHL

I'd say in terms of talent, JVR compares favorably with any of those guys. And he is actually putting up points at about the same rate this year as Giroux did at the same age. I'm pretty sure nobody around here wishes we had traded Giroux when he was 22.

Edited February 26, 2012 by JackStraw

[Irishjim]

@AndyS

and Adam Oates, and Alexander Daigle, and Pat Falloon.....

dale hawerchuck, and kris versteg and Shawn Antoski and Rob DiMaio o and the savior Stephane Beauregard

here's a link for all flyers trades. some will make you weep

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/trade.cgi

[aziz]

who would the other top pick, can't miss, crazy talented Flyers be since the big E ?

except we're back to pre-draft scouting, which is pretty much meaningless when the top pick, can't miss, crazy talented junior struggles to break 40 points by his 3rd year in the NHL.

[s3x]

Two PPGs for DB through one.

[aziz]

Have the Flyers had any other young player since Lindros who was more talented than JVR?

well, giroux comes to mind. gagne. i assume the idea is that richards and carter weren't as talented, but i would argue that, especially in carter's case. talent not production puts pitkanen on the list. it's early, but i'm tempted to put couturier on the list, too.

i'm not sure what JVR's talent is/was supposed to be. kid with a surprising combination of size, skating and hands...though i've never heard of his skating and hands as particularly amazing without the "for his size" qualification. if he were 5'11"/175lbs, i'm not real sure he'd have turned the heads that he did pre-draft. given that he doesn't use his size all that well, i don't know. seems like a lot of his foreseen upside was projecting what he'd be like when he put it all together, which is exactly what we haven't seen him do to this point. i'm not saying he isn't "talented", whatever we are deciding that means, but he was a high pick in a thin draft, and i'm not sure he deserves quite the expectation people have placed on his 2nd overall status.

and again, we're at a point where i would have hoped we'd be seeing a fair amount of his promise stepping forward. that 60 points would be a given and a point per game would be within reach. we aren't seeing anything close to that, outside of a week or two here and there. i think it's time to take the pre-draft scouting and put it aside, that was 4 years ago. he still has a lot of upside, but the clock is ticking, to me.

Edited February 26, 2012 by aziz

[jammer2]

@mojo1917 I honestly believe that mojo, don't want to get into a big NCAA, CHL debate, but JVR would be a much different player right now if he had taken the CHL route. He really needed the 90 plus games these guy play (ex, reg.season and playoffs combined). Of course a big variable is also coaching, which I can't really comment intelligently about, cauase I know squat about the New H. coaching staff.

[Vanflyer]

@idahophilly

"Dustin Brown brings more to the game (right now) and we could always try a new goalie out since ours have been so-so at best..."

C'mon Idaho- Do you really think its fair to compare Dustin Brown to JVR? Brown is 27 years old and has been in the league for 8 years.

[Vanflyer]

@flyerrod

Sharp was never even given the time of day by Ruxpin's favorite coach and he exploded as soon as he hit the ice in Chicago....

Um, that is not really true. In his first 130 games with the hawks he had 58 points and was a -14. Certainly not what I would call exploding.

[JackStraw]

well, giroux comes to mind. gagne. i assume the idea is that richards and carter weren't as talented, but i would argue that, especially in carter's case. talent not production puts pitkanen on the list. it's early, but i'm tempted to put couturier on the list, too.

i'm not sure what JVR's talent is/was supposed to be. kid with a surprising combination of size, skating and hands...though i've never heard of his skating and hands as particularly amazing without the "for his size" qualification. if he were 5'11"/175lbs, i'm not real sure he'd have turned the heads that he did pre-draft. given that he doesn't use his size all that well, i don't know. seems like a lot of his foreseen upside was projecting what he'd be like when he put it all together, which is exactly what we haven't seen him do to this point. i'm not saying he isn't "talented", whatever we are deciding that means, but he was a high pick in a thin draft, and i'm not sure he deserves quite the expectation people have placed on his 2nd overall status.

and again, we're at a point where i would have hoped we'd be seeing a fair amount of his promise stepping forward. that 60 points would be a given and a point per game would be within reach. we aren't seeing anything close to that, outside of a week or two here and there. i think it's time to take the pre-draft scouting and put it aside, that was 4 years ago. he still has a lot of upside, but the clock is ticking, to me.

Giroux, Gagne, yes. That's not that many. And as I said in another post, before he got hurt JVR was on pace to match Giroux's point total at age 22. At last year's skills competition, if I remember correctly, JVR had the hardest shot, was 2nd fastest skater, and won the one on one competition (Zherdev was 2nd). Apart from that my eyes tell me he's got excellent speed, hands, skill, regardless of his size. The kid has enormous talent, the question is how well will he use that talent.

[JackStraw]

@mojo1917 I honestly believe that mojo, don't want to get into a big NCAA, CHL debate, but JVR would be a much different player right now if he had taken the CHL route. He really needed the 90 plus games these guy play (ex, reg.season and playoffs combined). Of course a big variable is also coaching, which I can't really comment intelligently about, cauase I know squat about the New H. coaching staff.

I agree with that completely. I think if he had gone to play junior hockey in Canada he would be much farther along than he is now. He would have gotten a much better introduction to what the NHL would be like than he did in college.

[ruxpin]

@mojo1917 I honestly believe that mojo, don't want to get into a big NCAA, CHL debate, but JVR would be a much different player right now if he had taken the CHL route. He really needed the 90 plus games these guy play (ex, reg.season and playoffs combined). Of course a big variable is also coaching, which I can't really comment intelligently about, cauase I know squat about the New H. coaching staff.

Maybe CHL would have made him better. Or maybe it would have proved that he really isn't all that.

[Podein25]

Maybe CHL would have made him better. Or maybe it would have proved that he really isn't all that.

Hey, good point! However, one thing the CHL would have done for sure was make him less of a pussssy

[aziz]

And as I said in another post, before he got hurt JVR was on pace to match Giroux's point total at age 22.

you mean in giroux's first full season in the NHL?

jvr had 22 points in 37 games when he went down. 48 point pace for a 3rd year player. that isn't terrible. i guess. mike richards had 75 his 3rd season. i just don't know how long you keep jvr way way high on the awesome list with meh output like that.

and surprise, bryzgalov sucks.

[JackStraw]

you mean in giroux's first full season in the NHL?

jvr had 22 points in 37 games when he went down. 48 point pace for a 3rd year player. that isn't terrible. i guess. mike richards had 75 his 3rd season. i just don't know how long you keep jvr way way high on the awesome list with meh output like that.

and surprise, bryzgalov sucks.

Yes, first full year in the NHL after 4 years in the Q and a stint with the Phantoms... compared to JVR's two years at UNH... just sayin'

And yes, Bryz sucks, and our defense sucks too.

[flyercanuck]

@canoli

UNH is a big big big, stoner school....lots of hot granola chics up for just about anything, i think i'd maybe want to hang out there for a little while too, just to see what could happen.

just sayin'

anyway, when i look at jvr i can't help but see patrick sharp, not that their styles are similar, just the second he's on a different team he'll turn into the player we want, and he'll kill us in the playoffs. Sharp was the hawks best player in the scf and he owned leighton, jvr is bigger and faster and has better hands, i'd wait, i think he's grown up. he overtrained in the offseason, pulling trucks around parking lots, and hurt himself, he was vying for a leadership role in the lockerroom. i think he's going to blossom shortly

Ya, cause NHL players don't get any puck bunnies....I'm being as patient as I can with JVR. What he is capable of makes you want to keep him and hope he comes around. Unfortunately, what he usually gives you is extremely frustrating.

[mojo1917]

Crazy stoned & experimenting college poon is literally one fight of stairs away, we know the kid has questionable work habits...

[Cheesesteak]

@canoli

UNH is a big big big, stoner school....lots of hot granola chics up for just about anything, i think i'd maybe want to hang out there for a little while too, just to see what could happen.

just sayin'

anyway, when i look at jvr i can't help but see patrick sharp, not that their styles are similar, just the second he's on a different team he'll turn into the player we want, and he'll kill us in the playoffs. Sharp was the hawks best player in the scf and he owned leighton, jvr is bigger and faster and has better hands, i'd wait, i think he's grown up. he overtrained in the offseason, pulling trucks around parking lots, and hurt himself, he was vying for a leadership role in the lockerroom. i think he's going to blossom shortly

Well said..

[idahophilly]

@idahophilly

"Dustin Brown brings more to the game (right now) and we could always try a new goalie out since ours have been so-so at best..."

C'mon Idaho- Do you really think its fair to compare Dustin Brown to JVR? Brown is 27 years old and has been in the league for 8 years.

Why not... I'm against any move but that would not be the worst. I'm looking at leadership/intangibles, not scoring. But I'd be happy (very happy) if we just keep JVR...