A Speculative 2022 Flyers Off Season Rebuild

[OccamsRazor]

19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well thanks TFG and a nice pic to spruce it up that what it was missing was a woman's touch.

 

Nice.

 

And the question...

 

I'm stuck at work today and well bored as hell so got me to thinking IF you were to be aggressive who would you target for the aggressive rebuild?

 

My guy is Leon Draisaitl so I lead off with he is 26 would that be young enough to start the rebuild around or not and if so what would he cost?

 

And this isn't just for you mojo it is for anyone who is willing to make a suggestion here.

 

Which I know most here they'd rather sit back and wait for someone else to do so so they can jump in and tells us all why it will never work the Flyers are forever doomed and all the normal blah blah blah Flyer negative hate reply (you know who you are if the shoe fits...)

 

So I am asking anyone please don't do that if that is how you feel just don't reply.

 

Sure you are welcome to suggest something/someone else but if it is all Flyer hate vitriol please pass on this question.

 

Look forward to have something to discuss....maybe.

 

Alright I will bump this so everyone understands.

 

Please read the highlighted above please.

 

It explains what we would like to see here there are way more negative stuff going on here than there even needs to be.

 

Please go use one of those threads to vent and be negative and all the sky is falling stuff.

 

We DO NOT NEED ANYONE TELLING WHAT CAN'T/WON'T HAPPEN.

 

For Christ sake the Great one was traded so do not come back here telling what WON'T happen you know no more than us.

 

Thank you this is all hypothetical and meant for fun and nothing more none of us are GMs.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[OccamsRazor]

55 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

C'mon.  Relax. 

 

I am. Trust me. I am at work sitting here doing my job with everything here going smoothly like I like it till 7 pm.

 

55 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

This was an unnecessary overreaction by mojo.

 

No I really don't think so he was explaining to him it seemed what I said in my very first comment.

 

Which I highlighted just now.

 

I just want to have some good banter amongst of friends is all.

 

I am no smarter than any of yall here nor above yall.

 

We're all on the same level playing field using some of this as therapy to distract us from the crappy Flyers.

 

The negative and all the bad stuff that has and can could/would has been discussed at nauseum here.

 

So I'd like a different thread for fanasy/hypothetical for anyone to suggest as discuss hopefully civilly.

 

And mojo is a good dude and sometimes more positive than even I can stand and he has to talk me off a ledge countless times when the emotions get the best of me.

 

But I always respect his opinion because I could learn a lot from him to as well as all of yall.

 

I come here for fun. So yeah let's have some.

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by OccamsRazor
The Bourbon ain't working...

[GratefulFlyers]

Seems to me the game-breaker types, their price tag basically means you gut the Flyers in the process of obtaining them. And that of course presumes the other GM has any interest in parting with one of his best players. 
 

I’m enjoying the possibilities; I can fantasize with the best of them. I just don’t hold out much hope that the Flyers will pull off a huge win in any trades this summer. I’ll be content if Mr. Fletcher doesn’t get robbed when he sends TK and/or Provorov out West.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Seems to me the game-breaker types, their price tag basically means you gut the Flyers in the process of obtaining them.

 

You absolutely right especially if you bomb on your drafts and free agent signing just look no further than the Lindros trade for example.

 

Coming up lame in 6 drafts and bad trades/missed free signings will set you back big time.

 

So it will take a plan and it will need be executed well.

 

And they don't all have to be big time stars but they need to build through drafting and savvy trades as well as free agency.

 

Look no further than the Tampa Bay Lightning.

 

Yzerman built that team that way

 

Even their blueline was built with only two home grown talents.

 

The rest trades and signings.

 

11 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I just don’t hold out much hope that the Flyers will pull off a huge win in any trades this summer.

 

Yeah me neither.

 

It is why I pray for change.

[GratefulFlyers]

45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

And they don't all have to be big time stars but they need to build through drafting and savvy trades as well as free agency.

Yes. And to me this is what Hextall was doing, or at least what he was trying to do. He had his share of misses no doubt but at least he was working a clear plan to A) restore the prospect pool and then B) eventually transition as many as possible to the big club.
 

Well forgive me the trip down memory lane. I don’t say Hextall is the answer now (though we could do, we are doing, a lot worse) but a clear, multi-year plan seems like the only way out of this mess. Especially with how deep next year’s draft is reported to be. The Flyers could do themselves a lot good by mostly staying the course this summer, forgoing any Big Moves and hoping we suck next year too … lol!

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Yes. And to me this is what Hextall was doing, or at least what he was trying to do. He had his share of misses no doubt but at least he was working a clear plan to A) restore the prospect pool and then B) eventually transition as many as possible to the big club.
 

Well forgive me the trip down memory lane. I don’t say Hextall is the answer now (though we could do, we are doing, a lot worse) but a clear, multi-year plan seems like the only way out of this mess. Especially with how deep next year’s draft is reported to be. The Flyers could do themselves a lot good by mostly staying the course this summer, forgoing any Big Moves and hoping we suck next year too … lol!

 

Yes it seems that way with Ron's plan unfortunately we will never see fully what his vision was.

 

Something happened between Homer and him.

 

I have nothing to base this off of than a hunch, but I am sure Homer was meddling and trying to jiggle Ron like a puppet on a string (for details on how this work see Chuck Fletcher) and Ron probably said no Fug off i'm doing this my way you had your shot and that was it.

 

Then they drum up the scandal in the front office to quell the riot from the fans that they feel would take place.

 

And we'll here we are in purgatory and I'm not even catholic...

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

This organization needs better.  And they'll only get better if Holmgren is replaced.

 

I think the only way they do that is if Flyers home games stay as empty as possible for about 3 years - then maybe.

[lightduty]

On 4/9/2022 at 9:49 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

 

As per @OccamsRazor's request.
Have at it boys!

 

Good work... Did you ever tried edit with photoshop or any advanced photo editor? (It is possible to hide the white pixels in black background and fade...

[Tomdog]

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

@FireDillabaugh

 

Explaining myself and thought process is an over-reaction?

 

 

If ol' @Tomdog takes offense, I'll take it up with him when he brings it to me.  thanks

 

No offense taken, because when I skimmed over the  post, I missed the  part about things working out therapy you would like and not the way it probably would. 

I admit to drooling over the thought of having some of the younger talent in the league making their way to Minnesota. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

19 minutes ago, lightduty said:

 

Good work... Did you ever tried edit with photoshop or any advanced photo editor? (It is possible to hide the white pixels in black background and fade...

 

Heh....
Yea, I know.
This was just a quick one I slapped together because one of the posters requested this thread and I did that in like 2 minutes.  

[GrittyForever]

3 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

This is where Hextall fell VERY short.  He was far too hesitant to get youth into the NHL and play it.  Whether it was to try and extend his job length, an inability to realize that the NHL was becoming a league based on youth, or was just too stubborn, he didn't handle this well.  And, his ability to evaluate current NHL talent was VERY poor.  This probably led to at least a few of his decisions to not move the youth into the NHL quicker.  His drafting was ok.  Not great.  But ok.  His decision to take a gamble on Hakstol was a HUGE failure.

 

This organization needs better.  And they'll only get better if Holmgren is replaced.

Interesting, cause I thought it sort of played out differently. Hextall wanted to develop young players fully and properly and the plan was longer term. The wheels fell off the bus when he was pressured to play Hart early and then the patience ran out and "win now" was demanded. The people above him didn't want to go through as long a plan as he had laid out. idk, hard to say for sure as they all lie to the press.

What I do know though is you build championship teams through the draft. Free agency can add a few missing pieces, but more often depth players and grit for better value not stars who cost too much. A good trade will of course move you ahead faster, but the LeClair type deals are few and far between. They are usually trading an established vet for a younger guy who hasn't fully developed yet or needs a change of scenery, and I'm sure for all the ones like LeClair that you can name, there's a bunch that have been forgotten about because they failed miserably (possibly for both teams).

[Tomdog]

Well said Gritty, I think the trades that will help your team will be identifying stars before they become stars.

For that to work you will need a front office.

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, Tomdog said:

No offense taken, because when I skimmed over the  post, I missed the  part about things working out therapy you would like and not the way it probably would. 

I admit to drooling over the thought of having some of the younger talent in the league making their way to Minnesota. 

 

No offense intended, we've chatted in the past over some things I didn't know much about and you were kind. 

I thought you would take my response in the spirit in which it was intended, which was to answer your question.

It is all good -and you are most welcome to let us know how you'd build your team.

[Howie58]

I posted a related thread last week on the probability of an "Aggressive Retool" working, and the author of the piece cited makes it clear--a team as deep in a hole as the the Flyers does not rebound much the coming year.  We have a multi-year rebuild to playoff status, unless we have another miracle turnaround, as we did in 2007-08.  

 

Repeating what I said there:

 

1)  David Poile or "other" would probably be better than CF.

Other:

2)  We need a coach who can "unlearn" bad habits and fix the special teams.

3) Building through youth is a necessity in the Cap era, particularly given the paltry raises we are going to see in coming years--I think it goes up a million next year. 

 

This year might be a wake-up call to Comcast management that the problems are systemic.  A simple coaching change won't make much difference without a dramatic upgrade of personnel.  

 

 

 

[Tomdog]

10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

No offense intended, we've chatted in the past over some things I didn't know much about and you were kind. 

I thought you would take my response in the spirit in which it was intended, which was to answer your question.

It is all good -and you are most welcome to let us know how you'd build your team.

I'm not sure if Chuck Fletcher learned from his mistakes with the Wild, but I would go the oposite of what I saw him and Risborough.

The Wild always seemed to value a well rounded player that liked defense over a skilled player.

Defense minded ALWAYS won the tie.

Scoring is as much a state of mind as it is skill. It is seldom learned.

Defense is a state of will and can be taught.

Trading away prospects and draft picks for a qwuick fix seldom works. ( look at what Fletcher did to the Wild)

[OccamsRazor]

18 minutes ago, Tomdog said:

Wild always seemed to value a well rounded player that liked defense over a skilled player.

Defense minded ALWAYS won the tie.

 

 

I think this was based on the thought that is would be easy to teach the player who already knew how to play defense the offensive side versus trying to teach a scorer how to play defense away from the puck....see one James van Riemsdyk.

 

 

Or i love the Chinese proverb...

 

 

 

But you never really know Chuck...

[GrittyForever]

3 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

It's certainly possible.  Holmgren's ego is huge.  But, Hexy has an even bigger ego.  My perception was Hextall was keeping this youth drafted out of the NHL to keep his job for a longer period of time.  Maybe that didn't "fly"(no pun intended) with Holmgren's ego.  Like you say, they continually lie to the media.  But, to me, at the time, they had a number of vets that didn't belong in the NHL and it was time to see what the youth could do.  That, in addition to Hexy's awful ability to evaluate current NHL talent is what led to his time running out here.  But, again, I'm no fan of Holmgren's philosophy.  So, maybe it was his ego getting in the way.  I just believe that Hexy's is much larger, and that's what got in the way.

 

Speaking of Holmgren, didn't it all sort of start to fall apart when he signed Bryzgalov to all that money and let Bobrovski walk away? I think a major turning point for the franchise. 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, GrittyForever said:

 

Speaking of Holmgren, didn't it all sort of start to fall apart when he signed Bryzgalov to all that money and let Bobrovski walk away? I think a major turning point for the franchise. 

Going to jump in here with a "yes but".

Mr Snider was ill and on his way to dying.

I think Homer was doing whatever  he could for Mr Snider to see one more winner. Many rash decisions were made. IIRC 1the Weber offer sheet happened in this same time period. 

 

The franchise really accelerated its circling of the drain after Mr Snider passed.

 

Edit: The broader point being,  nothing happens in a vacuum. Bobdrovsky's contract and playing time (games allowed) were botched so he was no longer waiver exempt. 

Many bad choices were made for myriad reasons. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

What about a trade Elias Pettersson??

 

Does anyone remember reports of whispers of the Canucks unhappy with him a couple months ago because he was struggling to score/production has dropped off??

 

Wish i could remember who it was who leaked that but it was a few months ago.

 

Yes he has picked it up since then but if there is any truth to this i would certainly explore it.

 

They have quite a few holes to fill on a team headed for another year without the playoffs.

 

Just saying maybe the Flyers can work something out.

 

And yes it will cost some good pieces to acquire his talent but well just throwing it out there to consider...

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

Petterson's speed would be welcomed.

Other than his participation in the fastest skater competition a few years ago- I don't really know much about him. 

It IS nice he's not a right wing. 

 

Does he play in the big boy areas?

Or is he a perimeter speed only guy?

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The franchise really accelerated its circling of the drain after Mr Snider passed.

 

Once again a lot of that was due to poor drafting and free agent signings

 

It was much needed to help replenish aging guys like Briere, Kimmo and patches like Lilja and Kubina as just a few primary examples.

 

And they shipped off young Bob and ran young Erik Gustafsson (the good one) off too a few years later and as said no one really coming in good to fill the gaps.

 

Then losing Pronger really threw a monkey wrench in all the plans...and yeah the Bryz fiasco didn't help anything especially when they choose him over Bob to boot.

 

Once again draft along with trades and free agency need to be symbiotic but i sure Homer has zero clue on what that concept even means.

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Does he play in the big boy areas?

 

 

He will from time to time but he is more of a perimeter type player so he would need to be paired with some guys who will do more of the heavy lifting he is more of the scorer/play maker type.

 

But the Flyers as of now don't have anyone yet with his type of scoring touch when he is on.

 

I think Canucks will be going through a transition this offseason they need some help on the blueline big time as well as in net.

 

Flyers are very deep in goal Sandstrom and Fedotov are ready.

 

And they have Ustimenko and Ersson in the AHL now so maybe they could even throw a backup goalie for them in the package.

 

Esepcially if what i seen San At saying a week ago that they may just let Sandstrom walk i would hate that and get nothing for him.

 

So if anything maybe they would prefer to give up Fedotov.

 

Since he would be coming in on his entry level contract that would help them out cap wise.

 

Hell maybe (i know i am dreaming but hear me out) maybe they would even take JVR at even 50% of his cap hit to help stem the tide of losing Pettersson and leaving a hole at LW in said package whatever that would be.

 

Anyways dreaming aloud...

[GrittyForever]

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Going to jump in here with a "yes but".

Mr Snider was ill and on his way to dying.

I think Homer was doing whatever  he could for Mr Snider to see one more winner. Many rash decisions were made. IIRC 1the Weber offer sheet happened in this same time period. 

 

The franchise really accelerated its circling of the drain after Mr Snider passed.

 

Edit: The broader point being,  nothing happens in a vacuum. Bobdrovsky's contract and playing time (games allowed) were botched so he was no longer waiver exempt. 

Many bad choices were made for myriad reasons. 

I wouldn't doubt any of this, but the point remains that signing Bryz was a huge error and things have gone downwards ever since. There are of course many additional mistakes but that was a biggie. 

 

[flyercanuck]

6 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

 

Speaking of Holmgren, didn't it all sort of start to fall apart when he signed Bryzgalov to all that money and let Bobrovski walk away? I think a major turning point for the franchise. 

 

 1976. Paul Holmgren starts his career with the Philadelphia Flyers. Haven't won a cup since.

[AJgoal]

16 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I have nothing to base this off of than a hunch, but I am sure Homer was meddling and trying to jiggle Ron like a puppet on a string (for details on how this work see Chuck Fletcher) and Ron probably said no Fug off i'm doing this my way you had your shot and that was it.

 

I don't really feel like going back and piecing things together, but I think there's a very good chance this is close to what happened. It certainly seems like Clarke and Holmgren are still tied into the day-to-day operations - see Clarke's comments on Fletcher and Hextall - and there seems to be a decent amount of evidence that Hextall kept a much smaller circle. I think there's also some truth to the idea that they were unhappy with the speed of the rebuild. Fletcher certainly seems more in the haphazard, grab the shiny toy, Clarke and Holmgren mold.