A Speculative 2022 Flyers Off Season Rebuild

[jammer2]

Retool? Nah...fire every member of management and tank for 5 years...or suffer the pain of mediocrity for the next decade!! Nobody is untouchable. 

[AJgoal]

49 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Retool? Nah...fire every member of management and tank for 5 years...or suffer the pain of mediocrity for the next decade!! Nobody is untouchable. 

I really don't think they're going anywhere until Clarke and Holmgren and Lombardi are gone. Even if they mercifully fire Fletcher, they're just going to hire a GM with their same vision, a backwards-thinking coach like Torts or Tocchet, and not understand why things continue to go poorly.

[mojo1917]

7 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

I wouldn't doubt any of this, but the point remains that signing Bryz was a huge error and things have gone downwards ever since. There are of course many additional mistakes but that was a biggie

The data supports your statement.

 

Prior to Mr Snider becoming ill I thought Homer had done a pretty decent job. 

He was able to turn Alexi Zhitinik and other detritus into cornerstone NHL players. 

He had that bike accident and then Mr Snider got sick, it appears that was a terrible one-two punch.

[elmatus]

I mean, if this is meant to be an anything goes exercise, then I want McDavid please. I'll take Draisaitl too actually, and I'll grab Makar while I'm at it. Let's start there? Can I get MacKinnon too?

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I mean, if this is meant to be an anything goes exercise, then I want McDavid please. I'll take Draisaitl too actually, and I'll grab Makar while I'm at it. Let's start there? Can I get MacKinnon too?

 

Yeah just pick one and lay out your plan on how to get him i'll wait....

[elmatus]

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah just pick one and lay out your plan on how to get him i'll wait....

 

That's the problem though, there is no getting those guys. I thought this thread was an NHL build a team type thing? It's pretty clear we're not being realistic in here  

[OccamsRazor]

49 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

That's the problem though, there is no getting those guys. I thought this thread was an NHL build a team type thing? It's pretty clear we're not being realistic in here  

 

Ok.

[PuckMeister]

Hi guys!  Been some time since my last post, but I am hear every day.  Please accept my thanks to all who post and help me keep up with my favorite team.  I've been a fan since the beginning and graduated from Coatesville H.S. in '62.  Presently live in Ecuador so this is my major source for info.

 

I believe there was some talk about trading Konecny to L.A. for younger talented prospects a short time ago.  I think they have a good pool of players to select from and they seem to have better scouts than ours.  I believe this would be a good place to start and make reasonable roster changes.

 

Examine any successful franchise and you will find everything starts with a good front office that has knowledgeable execs and scouts who know how to evaluate talent.  That said, I agree with those who advocate a complete overthrow of the present leadership.  I use the term loosely.

 

Thanks again and know that I feel your pain all the way hear in South America.

[flyercanuck]

We're #3! We're #3!

 

The Kraken beat the Avs last night. Fletch couldn't tank like this if he tried.

[jammer2]

How about admit you are ****?? Ice an AHL team, try every prospect on the pp and see what you got! Admit you are ****!! Tank like nobody has ever tanked before. Trade everyone and start from scratch...including Hart, Provorov, Konency....pile up 1st rounders and start all over. This team and management group disgust me. We will always be ****!!

[RonJeremy]

1 minute ago, jammer2 said:

How about admit you are ****?? Ice an AHL team, try every prospect on the pp and see what you got! Admit you are ****!! Tank like nobody has ever tanked before. Trade everyone and start from scratch...including Hart, Provorov, Konency....pile up 1st rounders and start all over. This team and management group disgust me. We will always be ****!!

We have some good core pieces like Thompson and  Charlie Brown to build around.

[OccamsRazor]

I am good if they just purge as much dead weight as they can but i fully expect them to make a run at Johnny Gaudreau if the Flames let him test the market.

 

Same with Filip Forsberg as well if the Preds let him get to the market as well.

 

It's what they do see JVR and Hayes. Whatever they do i hope they don't also try to bring Jones back to spell Hart next season.

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Treliving has already said they will do everything possible to keep him a Flame.  And they should with the amazing career year he's having.  So, it probably comes down to whether Gaudreau wants to stay there or not.  And, with the season that Calgary has had, I don't see why he'd want to leave them.  I get that he's a Jersey guy and all.  But, I don't think that outweighs being on a competitive team that has the chance at a championship.  Calgary's main issue is they also have to give an offer sheet to Tkachuk.

 

 

I agree with this and it will keep Chuck from offering him 9-10 mill per season. A lot to may come down to how this playoff run goes too.

 

Being a Jersey guy shouldn't out weigh being on a Cup contender over going to a team you loved in a rebuild state. So that brings me back to Chuck and his over pay that we know is coming if he gets to market.

 

But i think if this even gets close you would see the Flyers trade something for Johnny's rights before the new year starts so they get a leg up on negotiations. I do not trust them after what is seen with JVR and Hayes because Johnny is way better than those two. But if they ink him first then he will just divert his eyes to something else shiny like Forsberg or insert name.

 

5 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

He's also having a career year.  And one hell of a career year at that.  I think the same goes here.  I think Nashville will do everything they can to keep him.  They'll probably offer him a deal like Duchene and Johansen have, if not a bit more.  Probably also comes down to what Forsberg wants to do.  I would think if they have some playoff success, he'll want to stay there.

 

Both players are big reasons for their team's success.  They aren't the type of UFAs that their teams just let walk away very often.

 

Yes i can see this and we know how hard it is for the Preds to find good forwards as good as they seem to be fining defensemen and goalies forward seems to be Poile's kryptonite as in even see the forwards they traded for you mention and both suck.

 

I haven't looked at their cap situation but it would be smart to bring his guy back...we know Homer covets the Pred players....and then if so they will just target the next best available guy whoever that is.

[GratefulFlyers]

Jones has played well this season. His ugly numbers this year - Hart's too - are not at all because "bad goaltending." They've had some sloppy games, some weak goals but in general goaltending has just not  been a problem this year. They could do worse than bringing back Jones.

 

But Sandstrom has played well too. Since he's younger and costs less he's probably the smarter move.

 

Hart is the #1 so it depends on who works better with Hart imho.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by GratefulFlyers

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Jones has played well this season.

 

It isn't just about his stats.

 

They have a log jam at goalie.

 

Sandstrom needs a spot you have Ersson and Ustimenko in the AHL and Fedotov who needs to be signed and brought over and started on his transition to the smaller ice and well a salary cap to manage.

 

Frost and Tippett need new deals. They have 6.3 mill in cap space and 17 guys signed.

 

Allison, Cates, Laczynski, Ratcliffe, Hogberg,  Sandstrom need new deals. As well as a few other kids needing to be signed.

 

So at the end of the day the Flyers can't afford to bring Jones back for 2 mill....just can't when you could sign Sandstrom to half that price.

 

We can blame ol Chuckles for the cluster fc uk. And well he will need to move some guys to make more room if they want to anything "aggressive" as they claim. They could start by moving JVR. 

[Howie58]

The team that showed up against Pitt disappeared tonight. It's hard to fathom or watch.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Howie58

[flyer4ever]

I'm not a lawyer or capologist , so I can only trust the writer knows better , his point (sorry I can't remember his name) is that the Flyers rebuild will not be easy. They do not have any elite level prospects, are not well stocked in extra draft picks, do not have ample cap space due to 6 albatross contracts. They can't take on salary from cap strapped teams, which usually means a pick or prospect coming back (see Ghost), they can't  even take on young talent from cash strapped teams. They have to hit home runs with their draft picks, which they don't have all of. Not sure Yzrman or Zito could fix this. What a s*&t show.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Butting in a bit as someone outside the fanbase:

IMO (aside from the obvious change in upper management), one of the main things this franchise needs to establish before anything can remotely start to look better, is identity.
What kind of team do they want to be?

Fast, high scoring, perhaps eschewing some defense in order to outscore their problems?
Defensive minded, preferring to shut down the opposition, take advantage of opportunities given to them, and win many nights 2-1, 3-2 games?
Heavy, nasty, with a bit of offense, with a bit of defense, but ALWAYS, always bruising?
Antagonistic? They have guys up n down the lineup with some skill, but also with a big propensity to draw lots of penalties by getting under everyone's skin (maybe some heaviness in there too, as it can go hand in hand), and then become a special teams powerhouse, while perhaps being average 5 on 5?

I mean, those are just samples, and teams can mix n match styles to create all new ones.

Thing is, once a team identity is established then management (yes, I know, THOSE guys again!), can go about getting players that fit the mold that they want, BUT, still feeling free to tweak and change things as they go if some things are proving to not work as well.

Yes, I hear the fanbase when they say, "we need high end talent", and that is certainly true.
But in lieu of that, in the short term, there is something to be said about getting an identity, get guys that play to that identity, and begin to gain a pride over the brand of hockey they impose on the other team.

I dare say that a team full of average players, who give everything, are on the same page, and understand what the team is about, can very well beat a team full of superstars who seem more interested in looking good and padding stats (though certainly not all star players are that way).

It means management (those infernal guys!) needs to stop seeing how well certain other players played elsewhere, then haphazardly throw them together on the Flyers and expect them to perform like they did before.
Sure, sometimes that may work, but more often than not, it won't.

Just as an example, and not necessarily picking on a player, but...
Ristolainen, Ellis, Hayes, Atkinson.

Look at that motley group. Most of those guys have good things they can offer, while also having some big deficiencies in their game.
Do they compliment what was already on the team? Do they even compliment each other?
They all came from different teams with different styles....and now, because big money was thrown at them on the Flyers, management thinks they will do just as well here?

Better to get lesser knowns who all row in the same direction, with some star or star-like players sprinkled in, WITH a definite team identity, and they can and would, skate circles around 'big name' guys who were just slapped together.

I've been made quite aware that upper management is a real problem for the franchise.
And truly, until THAT is fixed, anything else is just, well...perhaps only a dream.

But a team identity and focus is definitely needed first and foremost.
Kinda like before you build a house, you want to know what kind of foundation you want to build, then get the appropriate materials to do that job.
Same with building a championship caliber franchise.

Means purging, LOTS of purging needs to happen.

Past winners have proven that.
My 39 cents, Flyer fans.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, flyer4ever said:

I'm not a lawyer or capologist , so I can only trust the writer knows better , his point (sorry I can't remember his name) is that the Flyers rebuild will not be easy. They do not have any elite level prospects, are not well stocked in extra draft picks, do not have ample cap space due to 6 albatross contracts. They can't take on salary from cap strapped teams, which usually means a pick or prospect coming back (see Ghost), they can't  even take on young talent from cash strapped teams. They have to hit home runs with their draft picks, which they don't have all of. Not sure Yzrman or Zito could fix this. What a s*&t show.

 

Well in 11 years of drafting, Fletcher has hit ONE homerun....so we got that going for us!

[flyercanuck]

33 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Just as an example, and not necessarily picking on a player, but...
Ristolainen, Ellis, Hayes, Atkinson.

 

 

 Two of those 4 guys weren't even very good on the other teams. The other 2 are on the wrong side of 30. 3 of them we're stuck with....forever. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

26 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Two of those 4 guys weren't even very good on the other teams. The other 2 are on the wrong side of 30. 3 of them we're stuck with....forever. 

 

I am guessing you mean Hayes and Risto?

Yes, you are right....even though Risto does offer the kind of freight train hitting every team likes to have.
And Hayes, well, BEFORE he was a Flyer, showed lots of upside, but HE would actually be the type of player I was alluding to earlier that was just slapped into the Flyers and hope it works.

Don't get me wrong, FC, I am NOT disputing you on those players.
It is very difficult to find real silver linings with some of those guys because for every thing they may do right, they do about two or three wrong.

Ristolainen is a prime example of a guy you get, to hopefully up his game and bring his very physical style, playing for what was perceived at the time, a "better team", and if he doesn't, you pretty him up a bit, and ship him off somewhere....NOT give him an extension.

Taken as a group, those four just feel like misfit pieces randomly thrown together in a Flyers sweater and expected to perform at a championship level....which of course, we all know, isn't the case.

Going back a bit further, and you can see re-adding a guy like JVR was a similar mistake.
Seems the Flyers gave him that big contract based on his monster year in Toronto, without really paying a mind to his overall track record.

[flyer4ever]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Butting in a bit as someone outside the fanbase:

IMO (aside from the obvious change in upper management), one of the main things this franchise needs to establish before anything can remotely start to look better, is identity.
What kind of team do they want to be?

Fast, high scoring, perhaps eschewing some defense in order to outscore their problems?
Defensive minded, preferring to shut down the opposition, take advantage of opportunities given to them, and win many nights 2-1, 3-2 games?
Heavy, nasty, with a bit of offense, with a bit of defense, but ALWAYS, always bruising?
Antagonistic? They have guys up n down the lineup with some skill, but also with a big propensity to draw lots of penalties by getting under everyone's skin (maybe some heaviness in there too, as it can go hand in hand), and then become a special teams powerhouse, while perhaps being average 5 on 5?

I mean, those are just samples, and teams can mix n match styles to create all new ones.

Thing is, once a team identity is established then management (yes, I know, THOSE guys again!), can go about getting players that fit the mold that they want, BUT, still feeling free to tweak and change things as they go if some things are proving to not work as well.

Yes, I hear the fanbase when they say, "we need high end talent", and that is certainly true.
But in lieu of that, in the short term, there is something to be said about getting an identity, get guys that play to that identity, and begin to gain a pride over the brand of hockey they impose on the other team.

I dare say that a team full of average players, who give everything, are on the same page, and understand what the team is about, can very well beat a team full of superstars who seem more interested in looking good and padding stats (though certainly not all star players are that way).

It means management (those infernal guys!) needs to stop seeing how well certain other players played elsewhere, then haphazardly throw them together on the Flyers and expect them to perform like they did before.
Sure, sometimes that may work, but more often than not, it won't.

Just as an example, and not necessarily picking on a player, but...
Ristolainen, Ellis, Hayes, Atkinson.

Look at that motley group. Most of those guys have good things they can offer, while also having some big deficiencies in their game.
Do they compliment what was already on the team? Do they even compliment each other?
They all came from different teams with different styles....and now, because big money was thrown at them on the Flyers, management thinks they will do just as well here?

Better to get lesser knowns who all row in the same direction, with some star or star-like players sprinkled in, WITH a definite team identity, and they can and would, skate circles around 'big name' guys who were just slapped together.

I've been made quite aware that upper management is a real problem for the franchise.
And truly, until THAT is fixed, anything else is just, well...perhaps only a dream.

But a team identity and focus is definitely needed first and foremost.
Kinda like before you build a house, you want to know what kind of foundation you want to build, then get the appropriate materials to do that job.
Same with building a championship caliber franchise.

Means purging, LOTS of purging needs to happen.

Past winners have proven that.
My 39 cents, Flyer fans.

The Flyers have an identity. Old, slow, injured bad contract graveyard.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Just now, flyer4ever said:

The Flyers have an identity. Old, slow, injured bad contract graveyard.

 

Probably NOT on the short list of desirable identities, I am sure. 

[flyer4ever]

Just now, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

Probably NOT on the short list of desirable identities, I am sure. 

Not desirable for a normal fan base and hockey ops, yet this has been the MO of the Flyers for over a decade. Seriously, its true. 

[FD19372]