A Speculative 2022 Flyers Off Season Rebuild

[mojo1917]

14 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Thank you. I saw people posting things like Draisatl, Barkov

Well that was us. 

Speaking only for myself,  I was pretty bummed and feeling hopeless because the team was so terrible.

Sasha Barkov has been one of my favorite players for a couple of years (pre-pandemic anyway) and we started with wondering who could be the Flyers "Panarin player" to build around.

It got a little ridiculous. 

Add to that  a lot of people were just too angry to allow themselves to imagine a scenario where the team had some luck or did something right and the thread became a bit of a show.

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by mojo1917

[radoran]

On 4/10/2022 at 2:11 PM, OccamsRazor said:

look no further than the Lindros trade for example.

 

So the Flyers didn't win a Cup but they got to the Final in Year 5.

 

And I look no further than a petulant GM and a questionable medical staff for how everything flamed out.

 

No, Bonnie & Carl aren't blameless.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

So the Flyers didn't win a Cup but they got to the Final in Year 5.

 

And no goalie and a one line team not too bad if they had only drafted well to build around him.

 

Oh look the same issues now if they only drafted well and developed talent....it won't change why would it?

[Dumpster Hockey]

What we have to look at first is the front office is incompetent to put together an overhaul rebuild of the measure the Flyers need. They also are starpped with a Salary Cap to work with of 5.1 million. The players they would have to deal like JVR or Risto have such ridiculous salaries no competent  team would even sniff a deal with the Flyers for them.  So the Flyers are pretty much stuck with these players or are going to have to buy out some of them. 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, Gritty Fanatic said:

The players they would have to deal like JVR or Risto have such ridiculous salaries no competent  team would even sniff a deal with the Flyers for them.

 

Flyers are better off eating half of JVR's salary than buying him out.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if someone took him at $3.5M

[Dumpster Hockey]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Flyers are better off eating half of JVR's salary than buying him out.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if someone took him at $3.5M

It is possible, but I think we can agree that JVR is no more than a 30 to maybe 40 point per year guy and that could be even slipping as he gets even older. 3.5 million could still be pushing it because teams know his best days are gone. 

 

The thing is the other teams are in the drivers seat with him and the Flyers are the team that are under the bus. The Flyers are that way with a few players. Risto to name one. Hayes to name another. 

[radoran]

2 hours ago, Gritty Fanatic said:

3.5 million could still be pushing it because teams know his best days are gone. 

 

It's for a year. Last year he potted 24.

 

Alternatively, Flyers get less cap space and take a hit in 23-24.

 

Remember when JVR was the best FA available after Tavares?

 

Good times.

[Dumpster Hockey]

44 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

It's for a year. Last year he potted 24.

 

Alternatively, Flyers get less cap space and take a hit in 23-24.

 

Remember when JVR was the best FA available after Tavares?

 

Good times.

Yes he did score 24 goals, but what else did he do that was productive for the team? Not a damn thing. With the strong possibility of his goals spiraling downward he will be a worse pain in the arse to a team next season then he was this season. 

 

I'd loved to see him gone and your way is probably the only way it will occur so I suppose that is better than nothing. 

[jammer2]

On 5/28/2022 at 6:14 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Anyone in the Flyers organization that thinks an 'aggressive retool' can make this team a legitimate Stanley Cup contender is a fool. I have to believe that they're only using that term to appease that moron Dave Scott and that everyone has to believe that there are too many holes to fill or that the youth are going to need to take some lumps (which for some strange reason, this franchise doesn't want them to do that). 

 

If Schmuck is any kind of GM, he's sitting down with his scouts, coaching staff and senior advisors and they're having an honest conversation about how to rebuild this club properly. And if Clarke and Holmgren think that trading out of this is the way to build a contender, then they need to be fired right on the spot.

 

If I were GM of the club, I'd identify who the pillars are going forward. For instance, my forwards would be Couturier (contrary to others on here, he's been playing with a bad back for the past two years and you could see he was really laboring <- we need to wonder how much of that was the medical and training staff telling him he was OK to play), Konecny (I get that some want to move him, but the guy has been all over the lineup and has never been allowed to develop chemistry with anyone and as soon as he develops chemistry, he gets moved again for no reason), Frost (a guy who has had the absolute misfortune of being mishandled development wise by the Flyers), Farabee (who has excelled despite the Flyers development path), Brink, Tippett, Laczynski, Ratcliffe, Laughton and Noah Cates (who looks like he might end up being a real gem for a late round pick). Everyone else is up for grabs. 

 

So, in terms of moving forwards, the first one on the list is JVR. I get that some think he has no value, but he's a 25 goal scorer with a year left on his $7 million deal. If the Flyers eat half, there are a number of teams who would take him because he's still lethal on the power play. I could see the Kings being interested, especially with Dustin Brown retiring. If you can flip JVR for someone like Jarret Anderson-Dolan and a draft pick, he's out the door. Next up is Cam Atkinson. Again, played well for the Flyers considering, but if the Flyers are going young, he needs to be shown the door. I'm certain that there'll be teams out there who will want him. I could see Minnesota being interested, especially with their pending cap crunch coming. They'll want cost certainty and Atkinson can bring that. There's no way that the Wild can afford Fiala (who will more than likely be moved) and I fully expect that they'll move Dumba to help free up money. To me, Atkinson going there will help replace some of the lost offense in Fiala and Atkinson can be in a leadership role. The third forward who needs to go is Hayes. After he threw a tantrum about Keith Yandle being scratched, there's been speculation about his happiness in Philadelphia. Let's also not forget the infamous quote about making the Flyers pay if they want him. And now that the first three years of the contract are complete, he can now be traded to one of the teams not on his 12 club trade list. To me, the ideal fit is Boston. Flip him for Erik Haula, John Beecher and Brandon Carlo. Boston gets their center behind Bergeron and Hayes goes home. Finally, the last player to move is Oskar Lindblom. Now, I love Lindblom, but he needs a change of scenery. He's never been the same player after his cancer treatments and I think he just needs to go to another place to refind his game. I have him as part of a package that will be discussed later. So, the forwards would look like the following:

Farabee - Couturier - Konecny

N. Cates - Frost - Tippett

Laughton - Haula - Brink

Ratcliffe - Beecher - Laczynski

 

Now we get to the defense and identifying who are stayers. Sanheim, York and Zamula are the three guys that I keep on the left side. In terms of the right side, it's Ellis and only because that contract is not moveable. So, we begin with Provorov. This one hurts. He started out so strong, and after his third year, I thought he was ready to become the legitimate number one this club needed. He failed and all but flamed out. To make matters worse, rather than try to fix what was wrong, he was fed even more ice time and the errors, mistakes and bad habits compounded and multiplied. In a big deal, I move him to Detroit for Simon Edvinsson, a future 1st round pick (lottery protected) and Joe Veleno. Provorov immediately becomes a top pairing guy with Moritz Seider and the Flyers get a $6.75 million breathing space. Next up is Ristolainen. I get that he was signed to a new 5 year deal, but with Brandon Carlo coming over from Boston, there's no need for Ristolainen. Considering Edmonton was very interested, Ristolainen and Lindblom I'd package to Edmonton for a collection of the following: Tyson Barrie, Philip Broberg, Carter Savoie and a draft pick. The defense would look like the following:

Sanheim - Ellis

York - Carlo

Zamula/Broberg - Barrie

Edvinsson can be in the AHL where he'll pair with Ronnie Attard. 

 

So, that leaves goaltending and it's pretty clear that it will be Hart and Fedotov. 

 

Finally, we have the draft and with the 5th overall choice, the Flyers select from Winnipeg, Matthew Savoie. I'm looking at all of this and honestly, the Flyers wouldn't even need to be active in free agency. Wholesale changes have been made, they'll have a bruiser on defense in Carlo, the bottom six is much better than last year and the goaltending is young and very active. The only real question mark would be the 2nd line and even then, the three of them played really well together and that there's real chemistry there. I strongly believe that Frost and Tippett are ready to break out and Cates might be the biggest gem in the organization outside of Brink. As mentioned, the club would be young and fast and the backend would be surprisingly mobile. They'll take lumps along the way and I don't think they'd be playoff bound yet, but it's a start. More important, they've got money and they're out from underneath some bad contracts.

I dont see Stevie Y making that trade. Wings are not in win now mode. Why give up a young stud d man for an error prone guy who is not a true #1 pairing guy? Stevie is doing it the right way, patience and sitting on cap space, in no hurry to spend it. 

[OccamsRazor]

On 5/18/2022 at 1:56 PM, elmatus said:

In the case of Risto, I think moving him is addition by subtraction anyway.

 

It will have to be the next GM.

 

No way i can see Chuckles will to make an admission of that huge of a mistake while he is still employed here.

 

But not to make any excuse for him in no way - but this still reeks of the Holmgren Mcdud trade and sign like some of us here has mentioned.

 

I don't have a problem with a GM every now and then swinging for the fences but when you know it ain't a fit then move on. 

 

I sure invested a lot in my first marriage but when it hit me it was time to cut bait move on and chalked in it to wasted but valuable learning it is what it is.

 

But i lost the last all of the last hope i had for Chuck when he re upped Risto.

 

Nope.

 

Done with this guy and well here is still here. At least Torts gives a fresh horse to kill...

[OccamsRazor]

On 5/28/2022 at 6:14 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Finally, the last player to move is Oskar Lindblom. Now, I love Lindblom, but he needs a change of scenery. He's never been the same player after his cancer treatments and I think he just needs to go to another place to refind his game.

 

Yeah this is a hard one when do you make the call on this guy.

 

I hold out where ever Hagg ends up there is s good chance you can flip him to join his best friend.

 

And hopefully it is out West. But they may decide to hold onto him till the trade deadline for as a rental.

 

[OccamsRazor]

@BobbyClarkeFan16

 

I meant to add i read from San Ant that they called the Black Hawks about DeBrincat.

 

Would the 5th be worth throwing in on??? He is only 24. And proven.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

@BobbyClarkeFan16

 

I meant to add i read from San Ant that they called the Black Hawks about DeBrincat.

 

Would the 5th be worth throwing in on??? He is only 24. And proven.

I don't know if I'd do it. Don't get me wrong, DeBrincat is good, really good. But I'm not sure if playing in Philadelphia would be ideal for DeBrincat. To me, this would be like the Mike Comrie trade. If you're going to deal the 5th overall choice, the player HAS to be a fit. I'm not sure DeBrincat would be a fit simply because of the style of game that Tortorella will want the team to play. Now, the flip side is that this could be Panarin 2.0, but with all the holes in the Flyers lineup, I think this move would be more Comrie than Panarin like. I don't think this is the year to move a draft choice for a player. The Flyers just have too many needs. Let Jersey or someone else bleed assets trying to acquire DeBrincat. 

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I don't know if I'd do it. Don't get me wrong, DeBrincat is good, really good. But I'm not sure if playing in Philadelphia would be ideal for DeBrincat. To me, this would be like the Mike Comrie trade. If you're going to deal the 5th overall choice, the player HAS to be a fit. I'm not sure DeBrincat would be a fit simply because of the style of game that Tortorella will want the team to play. Now, the flip side is that this could be Panarin 2.0, but with all the holes in the Flyers lineup, I think this move would be more Comrie than Panarin like. I don't think this is the year to move a draft choice for a player. The Flyers just have too many needs. Let Jersey or someone else bleed assets trying to acquire DeBrincat. 

 

I was "ooh, DeBrincat!"   I really like the kid.

 

@OccamsRazor   I would be really tempted, but here's the thing:   in the couple articles I read where his movement was mentioned, they talked about why the Black Hawks would move him.   They cited last year of contract and what it would take to resign and that "this isn't something a rebuilding team should be doing."

 

Enter the Flyers, who legitimately are in the same or worse position as/than the Black Hawks.  So, then I ask myself the question, why would the Flyers do that?  Man, I like DeBrincat, but I don't know that it makes sense.   If the Flyers do it, I think I'll enjoy seeing him play, but as @BobbyClarkeFan16 fan mentions, I'm not sure he won't be castrated by Torts.

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

here's the thing:   in the couple articles I read where his movement was mentioned, they talked about why the Black Hawks would move him.   They cited last year of contract and what it would take to resign and that "this isn't something a rebuilding team should be doing."

 

Enter the Flyers, who legitimately are in the same or worse position as/than the Black Hawks. So, then I ask myself the question, why would the Flyers do that?

This is the Flyers existence in the last 11 years in a nutshell.

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

@BobbyClarkeFan16

 

I meant to add i read from San Ant that they called the Black Hawks about DeBrincat.

 

Would the 5th be worth throwing in on??? He is only 24. And proven.

Yes.  Do it now!

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Yes.  Do it now!

 

Nope too late every one has shot it down. Flyers don't need good players who have a nose around the net and you know actually score goals....something something the last 11 years i don't know how Debrincat can be anything like that i guess we can only trade for 21 year olds not sure how he doesn't fit in a Torts system but hey what do i know i'll go back to the Eagles fug these guys.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Man, I like DeBrincat, but I don't know that it makes sense.

You're so adorable...when do the Flyers ever make sense?

[SCFlyguy]

Shiny, New, By Any Means Necessary!

[CoachX]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Nope too late every one has shot it down. Flyers don't need good players who have a nose around the net and you know actually score goals....something something the last 11 years i don't know how Debrincat can be anything like that i guess we can only trade for 21 year olds not sure how he doesn't fit in a Torts system but hey what do i know i'll go back to the Eagles fug these guys.

I need to send you a fresh bottle of bourbon. You're no fun this way...unless you are channeling your inner Torts.  If so, I know what poster you should cuss out first

[CoachX]

Just now, SCFlyguy said:

Shiny, New, By Any Means Necessary!

Hell yes!

 

Quote of the day!

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, CoachX said:

You're so adorable

 

I'm so flattered and warm/fuzzy that it doesn't really matter what you said after that.

 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I need to send you a fresh bottle of bourbon. You're no fun this way...unless you are channeling your inner Torts.  If so, I know what poster you should cuss out first

 

I don't understand i suggested Alex and everyone shot it down. Said it was the new shiny or whatever only a few around here know the true secret way to rebuild around here we are just the lucky ones to get to share a board around here with them.

 

So yeah don't get mad at me i'm just another lucky one.

 

One even stated the Rags did it the right way and well you suggest trade for a good young player and well that is wrong even though they traded for Mika and Fox.

 

I guess we're suppose to just suck and hope uncle Gary gives them the true #1 for once.

 

Bourbon you say don't mind if i do...

 

 

[CoachX]

Torts will prolly do every bad thing you guys are predicting, but im ecstatic. Good or bad, the Flyers did SOMETHING. I accept that as an indication that they aren't willing to stand pat. So sign or trade everybody! No ine is safe. I dont care. I hated last season soo much,  I'll take a complete do over 

.

[CoachX]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I don't understand i suggested Alex and everyone shot it down. Said it was the new shiny or whatever only a few around here know the true secret way to rebuild around here we are just the lucky ones to get to share a board around here with them.

 

So yeah don't get mad at me i'm just another lucky one.

 

One even stated the Rags did it the right way and well you suggest trade for a good young player and well that is wrong even though they traded for Mika and Fox.

 

I guess we're suppose to just suck and hope uncle Gary gives them the true #1 for once.

 

Bourbon you say don't mind if i do...

 

 

Hey, I'm with you. Trade the 5 for that guy, Dubrincat. He has a cool name. Do it now. I'd rather have a known commodity then trusting these wingnuts with a draft pick