A Speculative 2022 Flyers Off Season Rebuild

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

I thought he wanted to play in New York specifically

Is that wrong?

 

Was he "fleeing" Tortarella or did he want a bigger market with more Russians around so he could wear bad shirts, track suits and hang around card rooms?

I thought the same about Panarin as well - he wanted to go to a city with a large Russian population. There's nothing that I can find about issues with Panarin and Tortorella. 

[SCFlyguy]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

every move is automatically a bad one. Sometimes we have to have an open mind set and see where things are headed.

Our mindset has nothing to do with the validity (or not) of the Flyers' moves.

 

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Sorry but all the constant negativity is dragging me down and it needs to change starting with us.

Seems like the change should start with the front office.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

 

big difference ..... fans are fans....players get paid, it is their job.

 

Yep and they are still human. You should know this Drs. get paid very well but are still human and have days were they just aren't on top of their game.

 

Firemen, Policemen nurses and anyone who is human have this same excuse i guess.

 

You don't have to like it but it is still reality. So if you can't change your mind set why should they as you said they already have their money.

[pilldoc]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Drs. get paid very well but are still human and have days were they just aren't on top of their game.

 

Not an excuse, they have to be on top of their game or people get hurt (yes we are human but we have to do everything in our power to prevent patient harm) ....I have to be on top of my game every day, if not med errors occur and patients can be exposed to harm.  That is why I come home mentally exhausted on many days ......

 

Would you be ok if a loved one had harm come to them because a surgeon was "aren't on top of their game"?

 

I get your POV  @OccamsRazor I really do, and you are not wrong.  We just differ on opinion on this discussion point.

Edited June 17, 2022 by pilldoc

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

Our mindset has nothing to do with the validity (or not) of the Flyers' moves.

 

So what are you basing it on your year of extensive scouting and running a front office???

 

Or years in front of the tube watching a game and arm chair GM or experience from your fantasy league??

 

I wish they'd go ahead and hire you we'd already have a couple cups by now instead of just discussing every single move they make because well you know it is the wrong one...

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

 

Not an excuse, they have to be on top of their game or people get hurt (yes we are human but we have to do everything in our power to prevent patient harm) ....I have to be on top of my game every day, if not med errors occur and patients can be exposed to harm.  That is why I come home mentally exhausted on many days ......

 

So you're saying you would want to work beside a team mate that bitched and moaned about everything your company did and that negative mindset and having to hear that every day over and over would have zero bearing on you and your outlook when it comes to be on your job and doing your job you can just block it out??

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Would you be ok if a loved one had harm come to them because a surgeon was "aren't on top of their game"?

 

I would be happy with it but i know that is part of it.

 

That is why i don't trust Drs. and medicine as whole in general and yes it has negatively affected a family member years back.

 

But what can be done about it??

 

Nothing now but you can learn from it and try to keep it from happening again and for starters not trust everything a Dr tells you to be the almighty gospel.

 

They tell folks every day they are going to die and years later they are still walking around.

 

You can't remove the human element from it.

 

I have said my peace on it i'm not looking to change anyone's opinion they are welcome to it.

 

We'll just wait for the sky to fall any moment...

[pilldoc]

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

So you're saying you would want to work beside a team mate that bitched and moaned about everything your company did and that negative mindset

 

I currently have that happening in out department now due to staff turn over, call outs, drug shortages, post COVID issues, etc ....

 

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

doing your job you can just block it out??

 

Yes I can and I do ....  I may not agree with everything in my department and yes there are stressful days, but yes I block it out and focus on patient care.  Patient care is paramount to me.  Working with other healthcare providers for the good of the patient is what motivates me, not the institution I work for .....

Edited June 17, 2022 by pilldoc

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, pilldoc said:

However for many of us on here we have been beaten down with changes (and being told this is the final fix) over the past decade and we are no closer to Lord Stanley than we were 10 years ago.  It is tough to stay positive especially when a vast majority simply do not trust the FO leadership.

 

It's also tough to stay positive when there is absolutely no justification for  being positive.

They took months to find completely a terrible choice for a coach, kept the terrible GM (who was, for once, correct in objecting to the terrible hire of a coach), the terrible "senior citizens...er...advisors,"  and the terrible ownership.

 

Other than that, woohoo!  Party hats for everyone!!!

 

I'm not pretending it's a nice day for some ####ing marshmallows while sitting in a living room as the house burns down around me.

[pilldoc]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would be happy with it but i know that is part of it.

 

That is why i don't trust Drs. and medicine as whole in general and yes it has negatively affected a family member years back.

 

But what can be done about it??

 

Nothing now but you can learn from it and try to keep it from happening again and for starters not trust everything a Dr tells you to be the almighty gospel.

 

They tell folks every day they are going to die and years later they are still walking around.

 

You can't remove the human element from it.

 

I have said my peace on it i'm not looking to change anyone's opinion they are welcome to it.

 

We'll just wait for the sky to fall any moment...

 

 

I'm sorry you feel that way towards the healthcare system, there are many of good providers who genuinely care for their patients and unfortunately sometimes medicine is an inexact science due to the complexity of the human body. However, many of us do our very best to put patients first. 

 

I'm sorry I derailed this topic .......  back to the topic on hand.

Edited June 17, 2022 by pilldoc

[SCFlyguy]

39 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So you're saying you would want to work beside a team mate that bitched and moaned about everything your company did and that negative mindset and having to hear that every day over and over would have zero bearing on you and your outlook when it comes to be on your job and doing your job you can just block it out??

 

 

Again, your anger seems misplaced.  It should be directed at the front office.  All people here have done is told you why the front office’s moves have been bad.

 

If that effects your enjoyment of the team, I don’t know what to tell you.  It’s no picnic hearing unwarranted positivity, let me tell you.

[ruxpin]

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So what are you basing it on your year of extensive scouting and running a front office???

 

Or years in front of the tube watching a game and arm chair GM or experience from your fantasy league??

 

I wish they'd go ahead and hire you we'd already have a couple cups by now instead of just discussing every single move they make because well you know it is the wrong one...

 

 OR, I know I've been very negative, but come on...go through every one of Fletchers moves and tell me which ones you think he did well on? 

 

 I'll start...his best move is probably bringing in Cam Atkinson...who is 33, small and has an extra year on his contract than the guy who went out. Not exactly knocking it out of the park. 

 

Most of his moves involving high draft picks have been complete steals....for the other team. It's why I stayed out of your conversation about trading for Debrincat. Do I think he's a good player? Sure. Would I trade for him? Depends on the ask. Do I trust Fletcher to make that deal for a fair price? Hell no...he'd send out what you'd expect to bring you McDavid. His key acquisitions are for one of the laziest overpaid slugs in the game, and one of the dumbest overpaid. He also took on a 6 year $6 million contract for a guy we don't even know will ever play and got 4 games out of him. That's some pretty gross usage on close to $20 million.

 

 This board speaks volumes on what he's done (not just him, the management team) to what used to be one of the most respected franchises in the NHL, and is now in a group with Arizona and Ottawa as the jokes of the league. 

 

 I'll be positive when he's fired, I promise.

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Firemen, Policemen nurses and anyone who is human have this same excuse i guess

I dont make excuses and my game face is always on!

 

My public needs me

[CoachX]

3 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I thought the same about Panarin as well - he wanted to go to a city with a large Russian population. There's nothing that I can find about issues with Panarin and Tortorella. 

Pretty sure it's well documented within our little forum here. 

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So you're saying you would want to work beside a team mate that bitched and moaned about everything your company did and that negative mindset and having to hear that every day over and over would have zero bearing on you and your outlook when it comes to be on your job and doing your job you can just block it out??

This is why I work with a dog. He's always happy, loves me unconditionally,  and pisses on anyone I tell him

 

It's a good life

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

This is why I work with a dog. He's always happy, loves me unconditionally,  and pisses on anyone I tell him

 

It's a good life

 

I work from home for a finance company..... he covers my breaks. 

 

[CoachX]

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

7 minutes ago, CoachX said:

 

I guess I better slow down and make sure that stuff in my grocery bag really IS just sugar, lest I get pulled over by Officer Tony!  

[elmatus]

Between Torts and the aggressive retool, I’m very curious to see what this roster looks like in the fall.
 

Realistically, if Fletch and co want to dramatically change this team, they’ll have to dangle way more than JVR, Hayes, Risto (lol). If they’re serious about an overhaul, it would mean moving some amount of Couts, Provo, TK, Farabee, Sanheim, and 1st round picks (which are likely to be very high for at least a few years). They could also probably get something decent for packages involving Frost, York, and maybe even Brink. 
 

That’s the short list of players we have that could be interesting to other teams. I’m curious to see how many of them move before next season.
 

Also, more than likely it would mean bringing back some amount of players who are say 28-32 years old, and who Torts in particular wants to have on his team. Some amount of players he’s had on teams before might fit the bill, much like how AV went to bat hard for Hayes. 
 

I wonder what players Torts would push to get (again likely 28-32+ years old), with the understanding the current players i noted above would likely be part of any deals made.

[flyercanuck]

55 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Between Torts and the aggressive retool, I’m very curious to see what this roster looks like in the fall.
 

Realistically, if Fletch and co want to dramatically change this team, they’ll have to dangle way more than JVR, Hayes, Risto (lol).

 

 

 Fletcher isn't trading Hayes and Risto...he actually thinks they're good. That's why the team stinks, cause he thinks THAT is good.

 

55 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

 

 

If they’re serious about an overhaul, it would mean moving some amount of Couts, Provo, TK, Farabee, Sanheim, and 1st round picks (which are likely to be very high for at least a few years).

 

 I'm pretty sure Tortsie will have us back to mediocre picks. This franchise just doesn't have a clue. 

[elmatus]

15 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 Fletcher isn't trading Hayes and Risto...he actually thinks they're good. That's why the team stinks, cause he thinks THAT is good.

 

 

I agree. Moreover, even if Fletch had a change of heart about any of those three, the return on them would not be great. They'd have to be part of a package designed to get them out of our hair. They're not the kind of players traded to bolster a team. JVR is too past his prime to be worth much, Hayes has a horrendous contract, and Risto is a negative factor on the ice. Team's are not going to be offering any kind of significant team-changing players for any of those guys.

 

I could see JVR being moved, but it will be for peanuts. That or they'll just buy him out, which is probably the most likely scenario. The other two will almost certainly be on the roster come next season.

 

Which is exactly why I brought up the other guys. If Fletch really wants to aggressively retool in any real way, it will have to mean trading away someone who does actually have value. Unfortunately this roster doesn't have all that many players who offer that value. We basically have:

 

1. Couts: Clearly the most valuable on the team. He's a top six two-way center who's always in the selke conversation. That's worth quite a lot, especially to contenders. He's probably the only player we have who could be a sort of one-for-one, above-average player Torts would really like to have on the team.

 

2. Provo, Farabee, TK, Sanheim: These guys would likely have to be part of a package to land any kind of top flight talent, but I'm sure they would be enticing to teams who feel their window is closing and who want to move aging players with good track records for young players with potential.

 

3. Frost, York: Probably more sweeteners than major pieces of a trade. They have unproven potential that might similarly be enticing to teams looking to stock up for a rebuild. Alone, they wouldn't fetch any real kind of immediate high impact return, but combined with other things they might.

 

There's also Hart, but I'm highly doubtful Hart will be on the table right now. Maybe if Torts ends up not liking him or something, but for now I'm pretty confident he's safe.

 

Laughton is an interesting player in a way. If there was a fourth point up there, he'd probably be in it (along with maybe Brink). I'm actually very curious about him. On the one hand, he's the kind of guy contenders wanting depth might ask for to bolster their bottom six and give them options, on the other hand, Laughton seems like exactly the kind of player Torts likes having on his teams. The big question mark would be whether the return would be worth it given Laughton's age, and whether Torts takes an immediate liking to him, which I wouldn't be surprised to see happen.

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I agree. Moreover, even if Fletch had a change of heart about any of those three, the return on them would not be great. They'd have to be part of a package designed to get them out of our hair. They're not the kind of players traded to bolster a team. JVR is too past his prime to be worth much, Hayes has a horrendous contract, and Risto is a negative factor on the ice. Team's are not going to be offering any kind of significant team-changing players for any of those guys.

 

I could see JVR being moved, but it will be for peanuts. That or they'll just buy him out, which is probably the most likely scenario. The other two will almost certainly be on the roster come next season.

 

Which is exactly why I brought up the other guys. If Fletch really wants to aggressively retool in any real way, it will have to mean trading away someone who does actually have value. Unfortunately this roster doesn't have all that many players who offer that value. We basically have:

 

1. Couts: Clearly the most valuable on the team. He's a top six two-way center who's always in the selke conversation. That's worth quite a lot, especially to contenders. He's probably the only player we have who could be a sort of one-for-one, above-average player Torts would really like to have on the team.

 

2. Provo, Farabee, TK, Sanheim: These guys would likely have to be part of a package to land any kind of top flight talent, but I'm sure they would be enticing to teams who feel their window is closing and who want to move aging players with good track records for young players with potential.

 

3. Frost, York: Probably more sweeteners than major pieces of a trade. They have unproven potential that might similarly be enticing to teams looking to stock up for a rebuild. Alone, they wouldn't fetch any real kind of immediate high impact return, but combined with other things they might.

 

There's also Hart, but I'm highly doubtful Hart will be on the table right now. Maybe if Torts ends up not liking him or something, but for now I'm pretty confident he's safe.

 

Laughton is an interesting player in a way. If there was a fourth point up there, he'd probably be in it (along with maybe Brink). I'm actually very curious about him. On the one hand, he's the kind of guy contenders wanting depth might ask for to bolster their bottom six and give them options, on the other hand, Laughton seems like exactly the kind of player Torts likes having on his teams. The big question mark would be whether the return would be worth it given Laughton's age, and whether Torts takes an immediate liking to him, which I wouldn't be surprised to see happen.

 

I'm good with just running it back with the exception of Yandle, Thompson and Jones.

 

And I would prefer to jettison JVR ia possible.

 

That would be progress in my book.

 

Other than that I am good running it back with a guy like Sandstrom/Ersson/Fedotov in Jones backup spot behind Hart.

[elmatus]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I'm good with just running it back with the exception of Yandle, Thompson and Jones.

 

And I would prefer to jettison JVR ia possible.

 

That would be progress in my book.

 

Other than that I am good running it back with a guy like Sandstrom/Ersson/Fedotov in Jones backup spot behind Hart.

That doesn’t sound anything like an aggressive retool. It sounds suspiciously like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. 
 

That line up is not good enough to compete. We know that already. 

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, elmatus said:

That doesn’t sound anything like an aggressive retool. It sounds suspiciously like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. 
 

That line up is not good enough to compete. We know that already. 

 

Yeah no need to do an aggressive retool now.

 

Shed a few more crap contract while getting the kids some playing time and developing the talent at the same time. 

 

While trying to get the whole team playing well.

 

 

It may take more than next year and they could also stay in the Bedard sweps as well.