Trade Talk Expect A Trade By Monday...

[BearOnIce]

This is not a coaching issue.

[doom88]

This is not a coaching issue.

I agree it isn't coaching, but who can you trade for to fix this Sh!t? Can you trade someone JVR to take Bryz? Doubtful for many reasons.

[SoCalFlyfan]

This is not a coaching issue.

Yes it is.

[AndyS]

This is not a coaching issue.

At least we won.

Again, it sucks - but if Pronger isn't hurt, we aren't having this conversation. Even Bryz would look better.

[aziz]

Can you trade someone JVR to take Bryz?

only think i can think of is a rental goalie. don't know who is on the market, but ye olde nabokov possbility comes to mind.

edit: and no, NYI wouldn't be taking bryzgalov. flyers would just carry three guys.

Edited February 26, 2012 by aziz

[Phillygrump]

maybe JSG as well

[brelic]

only think i can think of is a rental goalie. don't know who is on the market, but ye olde nabokov possbility comes to mind.

edit: and no, NYI wouldn't be taking bryzgalov. flyers would just carry three guys.

The Isles are trying to re-sign Nabby. If there is an amnesty buy-out clause, the Isles will surely use it to get rid of what is a worse contract than Bryz's... yes, shocking, but true. DiPietro.

[mojo1917]

Just by looking at the box score...again, shut out by NHL center ice... Literally the only game NOT carried. It is not like Bryzgalov is under siege . 21 shots 4ga. He needs to watch from the press box for a little while, and see if he can get right. It is becoming clear he is incapable of "working thru it".

Angora soft is how the Calgary Annc team described two goals...

I wonder if he is seeing the puck, has his vision changed ? is it he's using a black cage ? he used to use white in phx, there is something almost sad to how many easy plays he's missing.

[flyercanuck]

@mojo1917

He looks like the same goalie that sucked in postseason for Phoenix.

[BearOnIce]

I agree it isn't coaching, but who can you trade for to fix this ****? Can you trade someone JVR to take Bryz? Doubtful for many reasons.

Maybe last night was a breakthrough. I doubt it.

[BearOnIce]

Yes it is.

Nope.

[BearOnIce]

At least we won.

Again, it sucks - but if Pronger isn't hurt, we aren't having this conversation. Even Bryz would look better.

When we can beat the Rangers and Detroit's then this team is as advertised. Until then, we should be sellers and rebuilders and Ed Snider should shut his 36-years-without-a-cup-but-very-rich-mouth and quit telling the Flyers Faithful that the Flyers are a contenter.. It gets a little old year after year with the same net result.

[flyercanuck]

When we can beat the Rangers and Detroit's then this team is as advertised. Until then, we should be sellers and rebuilders and Ed Snider should shut his 36-years-without-a-cup-but-very-rich-mouth and quit telling the Flyers Faithful that the Flyers are a contenter.. It gets a little old year after year with the same net result.

Actually, this team wasn't supposed to be able to play with the elite. When we traded Carter and Richards for youth, it meant we were rebuilding. Which made the Bryz signing even more insane than it normally would have been.

[BearOnIce]

@mojo1917

He looks like the same goalie that sucked in postseason for Phoenix.

You sir are absolutely correct.

If you look at the film, it is obvious.

Where was Holmgren on this Bryz acquisition? The same place as Pronger. Throwing a lot of the fans money at big, questionable, long-term contracts that don't work. The model is Detroit. That is what works.

As long as Snider owns this team, Clark is in a Comcast office, and Holmgren is the GM, I seriously have to reach for my wallet and stay with Center Ice to see some real hockey...

No cup in 36 years.

Game 6 loss.

2 Winter Classic losses.

And now this team.

The Flyer Fans deserve a lot more for the money they plunk down than this crap that the Flyers organization gives them.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

There is another related thread on Snider.

Yes, we are hamstrung by 1) A commitment to win every year instead of accepting ebbs and flows; and; 2) Constant hiring of insiders/former players.

I think the other "problem" is history. We might be better off thinking about our franchise since the strike rather than over 40+ years. Two cups 35+ years ago in an era when 5-6 teams dominated the league year-in and out might not matter much. What I see is a post-strike team characterized by one word: inconsistency. We have had the worst season in franchise history followed by a final four. Two years later we barely make the playoffs and go to the final. Along the way--seasons with good and bad stretches.

I am hopeful we do not trade away this cadre of forwards. If we do--it will mean past is prologue.

Peace,

Howie

[doom88]

You sir are absolutely correct.

If you look at the film, it is obvious.

Where was Holmgren on this Bryz acquisition? The same place as Pronger. Throwing a lot of the fans money at big, questionable, long-term contracts that don't work. The model is Detroit. That is what works.

As long as Snider owns this team, Clark is in a Comcast office, and Holmgren is the GM, I seriously have to reach for my wallet and stay with Center Ice to see some real hockey...

No cup in 36 years.

Game 6 loss.

2 Winter Classic losses.

And now this team.

The Flyer Fans deserve a lot more for the money they plunk down than this crap that the Flyers organization gives them.

I think that's a bit extreme. While the Flyers have not won it all in my lifetime, there are plenty of good runs and great memories. I still love the team. Only one team of THIRTY wins he cup each year, and it isn't always the best one - health, opponent matchup, refs unfortunately, and home ice play are all huge factors.

You can't win every year, or anything like that. Detroit bluntly is a very lucky franchise with ridiculous coaching, scouting, and LUCK.

Holmstrom: 10th round

Zetts: 7th round

Dats: 6th round

Filppula, Franzen, Lidstrom: 3rd round

Howard, Hudler: 2nd round

Kronwall: 1st round (29th overall)

That is SERIOUS luck. No ifs ands or buts about it. Even finding a Kronwall at the end of the first round is pure luck.

[Mad Dog]

maybe JSG as well

JSG is the name that's being mentiuned a lot these days. But it would probably be rental.

[phlfly]

You sir are absolutely correct.

If you look at the film, it is obvious.

Where was Holmgren on this Bryz acquisition? The same place as Pronger. Throwing a lot of the fans money at big, questionable, long-term contracts that don't work. The model is Detroit. That is what works.

As long as Snider owns this team, Clark is in a Comcast office, and Holmgren is the GM, I seriously have to reach for my wallet and stay with Center Ice to see some real hockey...

No cup in 36 years.

Game 6 loss.

2 Winter Classic losses.

And now this team.

The Flyer Fans deserve a lot more for the money they plunk down than this crap that the Flyers organization gives them.

I agree with you. It's a bull crapevery year Flyers are contenders, each year someting Wings, Rags, NJ(like a decade), even crappy team like Tampa beat us easely that year.

[brelic]

I think that's a bit extreme. While the Flyers have not won it all in my lifetime, there are plenty of good runs and great memories. I still love the team. Only one team of THIRTY wins he cup each year, and it isn't always the best one - health, opponent matchup, refs unfortunately, and home ice play are all huge factors.

You can't win every year, or anything like that. Detroit bluntly is a very lucky franchise with ridiculous coaching, scouting, and LUCK.

Holmstrom: 10th round

Zetts: 7th round

Dats: 6th round

Filppula, Franzen, Lidstrom: 3rd round

Howard, Hudler: 2nd round

Kronwall: 1st round (29th overall)

That is SERIOUS luck. No ifs ands or buts about it. Even finding a Kronwall at the end of the first round is pure luck.

While there may be a wee bit o'luck in there, make no mistake. Detroit knows what they're doing when they draft players. They have a very defined strategy and they stick by that gameplan. Bottom line is that they believe the mechanics of hockey, i.e. umbrella or overload PP?, box or diamond on the PK?, how to play within a particular system, etc, they believe all of these things can be taught and mastered by just about any player given enough time.

On the flip side, they believe that puck possession skills are not as easily taught, so they draft guys that might fall deep in the draft because they are lacking certain aspects that scouts and rankings people will drool over, but nonetheless have excellent puck handling skills.

Think of Leino. At his best, the dude just never turned over the puck and protected it so well. A play usually never *ended* with Leino... it would always make it to another Flyer. He thrived here for a while, but for whatever reason, he never did in Buffalo (and never got a chance in Detroit). But there's no denying that he's got those puck possession skills.

Now think of JVR. The play will almost always end with him. Either a bad shot or turnover or losing the puck... JVR does not make plays, he ends them. Voracek, on the other hand, keeps plays alive. Giroux used to be that guy too, but he's increasingly making bad decisions and turning the puck over.

Anyway, all that text to say that Detroit very much has a sound and successful drafting plan

[aziz]

Anyway, all that text to say that Detroit very much has a sound and successful drafting plan

still have to stress the luck part, though. i mean, if they really knew what zetterberg and datsyuk were, how could they be so confident that no one else did and let them sit out there until the 6th/7th rounds? they picked such wonders as jari tolsa and ryan barnes in lower rounds of those drafts...it's not like they had must-picks ahead of z and d. they had a couple late round picks turn out stupidly well, but there's no way they could know what they were getting.

i agree, they know what they are about on draft day, but their biggest success stories were very happy accidents, imo.

[Phillygrump]

While there may be a wee bit o'luck in there, make no mistake. Detroit knows what they're doing when they draft players. They have a very defined strategy and they stick by that gameplan. Bottom line is that they believe the mechanics of hockey, i.e. umbrella or overload PP?, box or diamond on the PK?, how to play within a particular system, etc, they believe all of these things can be taught and mastered by just about any player given enough time.

On the flip side, they believe that puck possession skills are not as easily taught, so they draft guys that might fall deep in the draft because they are lacking certain aspects that scouts and rankings people will drool over, but nonetheless have excellent puck handling skills.

Think of Leino. At his best, the dude just never turned over the puck and protected it so well. A play usually never *ended* with Leino... it would always make it to another Flyer. He thrived here for a while, but for whatever reason, he never did in Buffalo (and never got a chance in Detroit). But there's no denying that he's got those puck possession skills.

Now think of JVR. The play will almost always end with him. Either a bad shot or turnover or losing the puck... JVR does not make plays, he ends them. Voracek, on the other hand, keeps plays alive. Giroux used to be that guy too, but he's increasingly making bad decisions and turning the puck over.

Anyway, all that text to say that Detroit very much has a sound and successful drafting plan

That is a very good point and I'm almost embarrassed to say that I never really looked at scouting that way. As far as something as simple as maintaining puck possession, it is super important and can be overshadowed by flashy skills. Great points about Leino and JVR and Voracek.

Detroit is doing to right as far as scouting and drafting. They certainly have a knack for discovering talent and getting value out of late picks.

[BearOnIce]

Greetings:

There is another related thread on Snider.

Yes, we are hamstrung by 1) A commitment to win every year instead of accepting ebbs and flows; and; 2) Constant hiring of insiders/former players.

I think the other "problem" is history. We might be better off thinking about our franchise since the strike rather than over 40+ years. Two cups 35+ years ago in an era when 5-6 teams dominated the league year-in and out might not matter much. What I see is a post-strike team characterized by one word: inconsistency. We have had the worst season in franchise history followed by a final four. Two years later we barely make the playoffs and go to the final. Along the way--seasons with good and bad stretches.

I am hopeful we do not trade away this cadre of forwards. If we do--it will mean past is prologue.

Peace,

Howie

Good points. I am not in favor of trading much. Especially nothing involving young players. Bryz is not moveable so we had better hope that some of the good that we saw last night carries forward. I like Grossman and Kubina. Not perfect but better.

[Illflyaway]

While there may be a wee bit o'luck in there, make no mistake. Detroit knows what they're doing when they draft players. They have a very defined strategy and they stick by that gameplan. Bottom line is that they believe the mechanics of hockey, i.e. umbrella or overload PP?, box or diamond on the PK?, how to play within a particular system, etc, they believe all of these things can be taught and mastered by just about any player given enough time.

I would disagree quite a bit there. That is enormous luck. Look at the guys that they drafted before Datsyuk. 9 players were drafted before Datsyuk, and other than one guy who retired early with heart problems, the others did not really do much.

[Howie58]

Good points. I am not in favor of trading much. Especially nothing involving young players. Bryz is not moveable so we had better hope that some of the good that we saw last night carries forward. I like Grossman and Kubina. Not perfect but better.

Bear:

Good to hear from you...dealing with a sick Dad and work BS...Flyers hockey is a good diversion.

Bryz...lost season or lost career in Philly...won't know until next year. The contract was un..f....believable. But this was Homer...not me! My hope is not to cannibalize the good young players.

Peace,

Howie

[Podein25]

....so they draft guys that might fall deep in the draft because they are lacking certain aspects that scouts and rankings people will drool over, but nonetheless have excellent puck handling skills.

I'm in general agreement with your points re DET's drafting success, particularly in Sweden.

Regarding your statement, I would actually flip it a bit and say that they have something that many scouts are missing, or at least undervaluing, and that's hockey intelligence.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Podein25