Snider is dragging this team down

[Mad Dog]

I know the guy is passionate and wants to win. There is no denying that. But his level of interefering for years not only generated no results, but created some serious fall-backs and issues in team's progress.

I just can't imagine what possibly went through his old brain when deciding to sign this stiff Bryzgalov to 9 years (shaking my head) and burden the cap. Pronger is another mistake. As important and tenaceous as the guy is, how could Snider not see him being on the decline? How could this not be anticipated?

Look no further than the Sixers (which, to my knowledge, Snider also meddled with despite a popular belief that he was only inerested in the Flyers). As soon as he sold the team, the new owners took the franchise in a different (i.e., positive) direciton and the team is enjoying its first winning season in a long time.

I really feel as long as the Old Man owns the team, the Flyers are basically doomed. I just hope Comcast curbs his enthusiams a little and just asks him to let his GM do what the GM is supposed to do. But that ain't happening, most likely.

[Howie58]

I know the guy is passionate and wants to win. There is no denying that. But his level of interefering for years not only generated no results, but created some serious fall-backs and issues in team's progress.

I just can't imagine what possibly went through his old brain when deciding to sign this stiff Bryzgalov to 9 years (shaking my head) and burden the cap. Pronger is another mistake. As important and tenaceous as the guy is, how could Snider not see him being on the decline? How could this not be anticipated?

Look no further than the Sixers (which, to my knowledge, Snider also meddled with despite a popular belief that he was only inerested in the Flyers). As soon as he sold the team, the new owners took the franchise in a different (i.e., positive) direciton and the team is enjoying its first winning season in a long time.

I really feel as long as the Old Man owns the team, the Flyers are basically doomed. I just hope Comcast curbs his enthusiams a little and just asks him to let his GM do what the GM is supposed to do. But that ain't happening, most likely.

Mad:

I think you are correct in two ways: 1) The Win Today/We Will Challenge for A Cup Every Year Mentality; 2) Inbreeding by Keeping Insiders at the Helm. Both hurt the franchise. But we are powerless to do anything about it.

The game against Edmonton was an interesting contrast. They accumulate 1st round draft picks via the draft.We do it that way on occasion, but I suspect we've had more of other franchises than of our own!

Peace,

Howie

[doom88]

If Bryz's playoff performance was an abberation, and he could return to regular season form - Snider would have solved the goaltending issue for nine years. While I did NOT want Bryz, I NEVER saw this train wreck coming down the tracks. This is way worse that I could have imagined.

Point to take home, Snider (based on his mission) was right in signing Bryz, but the goalie let *everyone* down. If, and I know it's hard to imagine, but if Bryz was playing to expectations, people would only rumble a little about the cap hit, but enjoy the mortal lock into the playoffs.

[pilldoc]

If Bryz's playoff performance was an abberation, and he could return to regular season form - Snider would have solved the goaltending issue for nine years. While I did NOT want Bryz, I NEVER saw this train wreck coming down the tracks. This is way worse that I could have imagined.

Point to take home, Snider (based on his mission) was right in signing Bryz, but the goalie let *everyone* down. If, and I know it's hard to imagine, but if Bryz was playing to expectations, people would only rumble a little about the cap hit, but enjoy the mortal lock into the playoffs.

@doom88....NO ONE saw this trainwreck coming, not just you. Just like no one saw Prongers injury coming. The combination of the 2 has been a death wish to this team.

@Mad Dog....Snider reminds me an awful like good ol Jerry Jones down in Dallas. He wants to win badly, BUT he just can't keep himself from muddling with that team. There are many Cowboy fans who see him as pasionate owener but want to see him fire himself as GM. He has no business doing the GM's job and there are a many of Cowboy fans who are ticked about it.

In comparison to Snider, this organization needs to look outside itself sometimes. I'm all for traditions and family, but obviously something is not working. The inconsistency MUST STOP!

[Mad Dog]

Point to take home, Snider (based on his mission) was right in signing Bryz, but the goalie let *everyone* down. If, and I know it's hard to imagine, but if Bryz was playing to expectations, people would only rumble a little about the cap hit, but enjoy the mortal lock into the playoffs.

Well, this is how *I* see it. Bryzgalov, even during his better days, is not what I would call a franchise goaltender. Signing him for 9 years tells me exactly what the Flyers must have thought of him: a face of the franchise.

I can see a possibility where the Bryzgalov's agent put everything on the table and gave the Flyers an ultimatum: either honor our demands or no deal at all. And the demands, I am gathering, was exactly what the Flyers gave him. In that case, I would've stopped any negotiations and looked elsewhere. I am sorry - and I know this was discussed ad nauseam - but there was really no good reason to sign him to that ridiculous contract.

Look at it this way. In 2006, Vancouver signed Luongo to a four-year, $27 mil deal. This is laughable. And considering the fact that I personally place Luongo two levels above Bryzgalov, this is a even *more* laughable.

Bryzgalov clearly got the Flyers over the barrel and they succumbed to his demands. That's poor, short-sighted, narrow-minded, and borderline self-destructive way of doing business. Again, *even* if he lived up to the expectations, this is still way too much money and too long of a term of the contract. And how could Snider not even consider a possibility that the 2010-2011 season Bryzgalov had may've been an aberration? How could the Flyers not do any homework or scouting to see that Bryzgalov’s performance as a direct product of a stifling defense Dave Tippett employs?

Again: short-sighted and small-minded. This was clearly a reactionary move by Snider who was blinded by a fiasco of the playoffs. I get that he was pissed. We all were. But there was no reason to panic and handle the situation so poorly.

[Phillygrump]

@Howie58

We have a good thing going with these young guys here. The JVR, Voracek, Schenn line alone in cause for excitement. I noticed last night in Calgary it seemed that they were the most relied on line. They had so much energy and jump and they got the team back in it.

I just want Bryzgalov gone. Try to unload this guy and get a young goaltender to develop. Bob is fine. Keep bringing him along. Try and add Suter in the offseason. Maybe try and move Briere at the draft. Lets commit to the youth of this team and building a new generation of Flyers after this run. See how far you can get this season and when we fall short move towards the youth of this team and try and salvage the mistake that Bryz is.

[aziz]

Point to take home, Snider (based on his mission) was right in signing Bryz, but the goalie let *everyone* down. If, and I know it's hard to imagine, but if Bryz was playing to expectations, people would only rumble a little about the cap hit, but enjoy the mortal lock into the playoffs.

pfft. the point is the owner of the team generated those expectations based on stat leaderboards, not on watching the guy play. snider was NOT right in signing bryzgalov, because he signed bryzgalov based on obviously incomplete scouting. maybe i'll meet you halfway and say snider was right to push holmgren to find a solution to the goaltending problem, but making bryzgalov the exclusive target was a mistake from the day it was thought up.

[JackStraw]

Point to take home, Snider (based on his mission) was right in signing Bryz, but the goalie let *everyone* down.

Since when is it the owner's "mission" (i.e., "job") to decide which players to sign? I would prefer he left those decisions to the GM, who is supposed to be the expert in those matters.

[Flyersfan71]

To say Snider is dragging this team down is unfair. Me and 90% of other Flyer fans have been complaining about the goaltending on this team for 15+ years. They got the best available goalie at the time. His numbers were really good in Pheonix and I know he played on a defensive team but does that make Lunqvist A stiff if he played on the Flyers? Hindsight is a convienent thing to have.

[bryanc]

I just can't imagine what possibly went through his old brain when deciding to sign this stiff Bryzgalov to 9 years (shaking my head) and burden the cap. Pronger is another mistake. As important and tenaceous as the guy is, how could Snider not see him being on the decline? How could this not be anticipated?

Indeed, I mean, how could Snider have possibly not known that pronger would take a stick to his head and have his career ended? Seriously, we all saw that coming.

Sarcasm aside, in the eight years before last season, Pronger played in no fewer than 66 games per year and in all 82 two games for a majority of that time. COnsidering how he plays, and the relative frequency of which players of his position get injured blocking shots, that's significant -- Pronger was showing no signs of slowing down.

//As soon as he sold the team, the new owners took the franchise in a different (i.e., positive) direciton and the team is enjoying its first winning season in a long time.//

I don't know how much you watch the Sixers, but every piece of that current team was assembled before the team was sold, and their good play actually began last year. The new ownership has changed the atmosphere to get the fans back, but that's about it.

[Mad Dog]

Indeed, I mean, how could Snider have possibly not known that pronger would take a stick to his head and have his career ended? Seriously, we all saw that coming.

Sarcasm aside, in the eight years before last season, Pronger played in no fewer than 66 games per year and in all 82 two games for a majority of that time. COnsidering how he plays, and the relative frequency of which players of his position get injured blocking shots, that's significant -- Pronger was showing no signs of slowing down.

//As soon as he sold the team, the new owners took the franchise in a different (i.e., positive) direciton and the team is enjoying its first winning season in a long time.//

I don't know how much you watch the Sixers, but every piece of that current team was assembled before the team was sold, and their good play actually began last year. The new ownership has changed the atmosphere to get the fans back, but that's about it.

He sure couldn't see Pronger taking a stick to the eye and getting a serious concussion. Nobody could. The point is the Flyers paid a huge price to get Pronger and committed to a big contract, putting the team in cap hell for years to come. Couple that with a contract they gave to Bryzgalov, and that's a disaster in making.

I can more or less swallow the Pronger deal because at the very least, I can see what they were thinking: a tenacious warrior, a leader, a decent two-way d-man who brings a ton to the table. Sure. But Pronger is also almost 40; you had to consider the possibility that he is at the age where players - especially big, physical players - start showing effects of wear and tear. I don't know if they really explored all the angles so that they could add a needed piece without committing to a big contract and burdening the cap to the point where they can't address other areas.

And Bryzgalov's contract is inexcusable. Sorry... But I can't give Snider an out for that.

The bottom line - which was the point of this thread - an owner shouldn't be interfering in team's affairs the way Snider has been. He needs to let his GM run the show. He needs to trust his GM knows what he is doing. Most of Snider's directives are knee-jerk reactions, which is exactly what he was doing when Clarke was running the team. That can't happen. That shouldn't happen.

I realize he wants to win and he wants to win bad. That’s commendable. But he needs to just take a few steps back and let people who he put in charge himself make decisions. Otherwise, with his meddling he brings havoc and chaos in team’s affairs and as a result (directly or indirectly), his unfounded decisions end up costing the team.

[Bakanekimiwa]

If Bryz's playoff performance was an abberation, and he could return to regular season form - Snider would have solved the goaltending issue for nine years. While I did NOT want Bryz, I NEVER saw this train wreck coming down the tracks. This is way worse that I could have imagined.

this is way worse than *anyone* could have imagined. i think anyone who says otherwise is being more than a little ingenuous. bryzo has been an abject failure by anyone's measure.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Indeed, I mean, how could Snider have possibly not known that pronger would take a stick to his head and have his career ended? Seriously, we all saw that coming.

Sarcasm aside, in the eight years before last season, Pronger played in no fewer than 66 games per year and in all 82 two games for a majority of that time. COnsidering how he plays, and the relative frequency of which players of his position get injured blocking shots, that's significant -- Pronger was showing no signs of slowing down.

//As soon as he sold the team, the new owners took the franchise in a different (i.e., positive) direciton and the team is enjoying its first winning season in a long time.//

I don't know how much you watch the Sixers, but every piece of that current team was assembled before the team was sold, and their good play actually began last year. The new ownership has changed the atmosphere to get the fans back, but that's about it.

it's not that snider and co could not see pronger's age interfering at some point.... they were clearly circumventing the cap. the big oopsie was not realizing his contract would be an over 35. before that... it seemed everything was going according to plan... muhahaha.

so that is a mistake. who's fault was it? homer or snider? that one looks like it's on homer. are we ready to get out our pitchforks and stakes and run him out of town? i'm not, i think he's done a good job overall... everyone makes mistakes. let's hope he doesn't make a huge one like that again.

however, to your point, prongs was showing very little signs of slowing down. his injuries are ones that could end a player at ANY age's career. he was still playing a very, consistently i might add, high level of play right up to his injury.

[Bakanekimiwa]

@maddog while i can agree with your overall sentiment... maybe i wouldn't go so far as to blame the big guy all the way on this one. i do think you are correct that snider has involved himself probably too much. he is clearly not the 'silent partner' type. is he loving the flyers to death though? i don't think so.

bryz was a mistake for sure. it was a reactionary move by a passionate organization. it was also a risky move. if bryz was playing even close to expectations this team would probably duking it out for the top spot with the rangers. this forum would be pretty quiet about snider and bryz. but, as is often the case in philly, things didn't work out that way. sure, the blame can be spread around, snider deserves a fair amount it would seem(i say 'it would seem' because it's been written about, but i don't think i've heard anyone from the flyers flat out acknowledge that snider made a directive... it is probably though).

so, while i can agree with you to a point... snider's heavy hand has probably caused some real problems for this org to deal with, you also have to step back and realize that we're lucky to have a guy that really wants to win it as much as we the fans do. they can't say that in every city.

and sports are a fickle business. there are many variables that can make one look either really brilliant or really stupid. like i said, if bryz plays up to his expectations(vezina caliber goaltender) we're not having this conversation and suddenly snider is a hero.

[Podein25]

and sports are a fickle business. there are many variables that can make one look either really brilliant or really stupid.

Not just in sports!

[Bakanekimiwa]

Not just in sports!

haha... yes very true. one of my favorite bits from, the best movie ever and ever in the entire universe, my favorite movie Spinal Tap...

david st. hubbins: it's such a fine line between stupid, and uh...

nigel tufnel: clever

david st. hubbins: yeah, and clever.

[Podein25]

@Bakanekimiwa - Brilliant movie. Many fans of it here I think. Hey, when are you trading me Malkin?

[Bakanekimiwa]

@Bakanekimiwa - Hey, when are you trading me Malkin?

when you calm down!!! haha.. jk. i dunno.. make me a solid offer. it hardly matters now, though, season is just about over. that ship has almost sunk...

[JackStraw]

haha... yes very true. one of my favorite bits from, the best movie ever and ever in the entire universe, my favorite movie Spinal Tap...

david st. hubbins: it's such a fine line between stupid, and uh...

nigel tufnel: clever

david st. hubbins: yeah, and clever.

"It's not your job to be as confused as Nigel"

Edited February 28, 2012 by JackStraw

[Bertmega]

I really think the conspiracy goes deeper than Mr. Snider. In fact, at lunch today I put on my best tin foil hat and stared due East towards the Flyers Skate Zone for answers.

I believe the team issues revolve around no other than Mr. Derek Settlemyer, the team's equipment manager.

It has to be him and here is why........

no answer is better than a bad answer, I guess. Carry on

[Podein25]

I put on my best tin foil hat

LOL, be careful Bert, Special K is walking around in his own tin foil hat. It might confuse you for a like-minded lunatic and try and mate with you, or something.

[Bertmega]

@Podein25

You mean these guys?

K-mart and his cat at the computer waiting to pounce on anything not called hung like eaton.

[aziz]

They got the best available goalie at the time. His numbers were really good in Pheonix and I know he played on a defensive team but does that make Lunqvist A stiff if he played on the Flyers? Hindsight is a convienent thing to have.

he also could have, you know, done more than look at stat sheets. it isn't hindsight, it's scouting. like others have said, bryzgalov has been worse than anyone could have predicted, but his flaws were there for anyone actually looking at him last season and further back. the complete disaster we've seen is over the top, but a good solid look at bryzgalov would have told you he wasn't top of the class.

[Podein25]

LOL - poor cat

[mojo1917]

@Bertmega

that picture is hilarious,

i love the cat's expression. great find