What happens after a 6th straight series loss?

[3 Palmateers]

BTW, the Leafs have tied the Hartford Whalers with the longest all-time series losing streak, at six. 

 

No way this team/org is remotely similar next season. 

 

The big debate in Leafs nation is to what extent changes need to be made. The two schools of thought seem to elements of truth in them. Yet, they are so polarizing. 

Do you stay the course believing something will be different? Or, do you make changes and how many? 

 

I do not believe in this age of sports you can just "stick with the plan". The plan has failed 3 straight series. I'd say 4 but Keefe has only failed 3x.  It gets murky because Lou and Babs are tied up into the series losing streak. The commonalities in the Dubas-era are Matthews, Marner, Reilly, Nylander, JT, Muzzin and Holl. 

 

Who stays? Who goes? I would say goodbye to:  Nylander, Muzzin and Holl. I would gladly move on from JT, but he has a NMC and is going nowhere. 

 

Does Keefe stay? Dependent on what happens with Dubas and or Shanahan, but wouldn't be opposed to a Torts or Trotz taking over the reigns. 

 

Does Shanahan stay? I'd move on from him. Shanaplan has failed. 

 

Does Dubas stay? I think that's a tough one. Of course, if Shanahan is out, then Dubas and Keefe's job security is thin ice. 

 

The Leafs are sadly always more interesting after a final game series loss than they are at any other point. Such intrigue now with what 2022-23 looks like. That is the fate of the loser. Always talking about next year when the current year isn't over. 

 

Would love to see legit poll numbers among Leafs nation on what they find acceptable. I think there's going to be a huge disconnect if the organization tries feeding us more of the same next season. It just has to be different in a tangible way to garner any form of belief. You can't keep getting people's hopes up year after year only to never deliver before they tune out. Change is the only remedy. No salesman is good enough to convince this base that more of the same is the right path forward even though it might be. 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, 3 Palmateers said:

No way this team/org is remotely similar next season. 

 

I agree. I think it is time for the Leafs to try and build from the net out.

 

When is the last time they tried something like this?? It feels like all your strength is at forward.

 

Maybe try something different. A this point it doesn't seem like something drastic is needed but a retooling is needed.

 

Maybe target Spencer Knight and build from the net out the Panthers have Bob under contract for 4 more season after this one. If not then go try and find another young goalie to build around.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Toronto Jules]

I certainly don't see JT going anywhere. I see him more valuable to the team than just on the ice. As for Nylander he would be the main star that I ship out. He can be fantastic at times and then he can make the most bone headed plays that just seems like he is a totally different player. Muzzin I also don't have a problem seeing him go because I think he has run his course with the club. Reilly is most definitely not going anywhere. 

 

I think an addition to a physical D-Man would be good for the Leafs.

 

Jack Campbell has emerged as a capable #1 goalie, but I don't want Petr Mrazek back and Kallgren as the primary back up I am a little shaky. So upgrading at the back up goalie position would be nice. 

 

If they do depart with Nylander they will need to add someone to fill in for him. 

[Toronto Jules]

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I agree. I think it is time for the Leafs to try and build from the net out.

 

When is the last time they tried something like this?? It feels like all your strength is at forward.

 

Maybe try something different. A this point it doesn't seem like something drastic is needed but a retooling is needed.

 

Maybe target Spencer Knight and build from the net out the Panthers have Bob under contract for 4 more season after this one. If not then go try and find another young goalie to build around.

 

Just my 2 cents.

If they are able to get Spencer Knight than that would be something. I would think the asking price would be pretty steep. The Leafs do have players to get it done, but I am not sure they are willing to do that. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, Toronto Jules said:

I would think the asking price would be pretty steep.

 

Then pay it and be done.

 

You could always ship Nylander out and use the pieces in return to secure your goalie.

 

Bolts have a very good young goalie you may be able to pry from them Magnus Chrona.

 

A 6-5 Swede who could be had in a trade for maybe even draft picks since Bolts need cap space.

[Toronto Jules]

35 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Then pay it and be done.

 

You could always ship Nylander out and use the pieces in return to secure your goalie.

 

Bolts have a very good young goalie you may be able to pry from them Magnus Chrona.

 

A 6-5 Swede who could be had in a trade for maybe even draft picks since Bolts need cap space.

I was thinking Nylander would be the start of securing a top goalie.

 

Someone like Magnus Chrona probably makes more sense. 

[Math]

One blatant stat that was shown during the game was the overall game #7 record for each team, summed by players' each individual record. Tampa was largely above .500 while Toronto showed something like 5-34. Of course you have to grind your own experience and find a way to win, but one of key is to have players that, ideally, have already won the cup in your squad (Perry is a good example).

[Toronto Jules]

4 minutes ago, Math said:

One blatant stat that was shown during the game was the overall game #7 record for each team, summed by players' each individual record. Tampa was largely above .500 while Toronto showed something like 5-34. Of course you have to grind your own experience and find a way to win, but one of key is to have players that, ideally, have already won the cup in your squad (Perry is a good example).

Experience is a huge factor in these types of games and that was certainly on the side of Tampa Bay last night. I also saw those stats and it seemed like every time they showed a Leafs player it was 0 out of something. 

 

I still think both teams played pretty equally in last nights contest with the exception of Nick Paul and Andrei Vasilevskiy who had superior games for the Lightning. The Leafs defense and Jack Campbell also played well, but the offense for the Leafs including the star players did not show up and that is why they lost. 

[3 Palmateers]

Nylander has to go. There is no way he can be back. Him and his 6.9 can go on someone else's books despite the "great" contract for a 30-goal guy. He is a minus as much as he is a plus. Time for him to bring his aloofness elsewhere, and I will love to see it. 

 

JT would definitely be going if not for the inability to move him due to the NMC. I think he's a dreadful captain and is only there because of the Matthews incident that came to light right before captain was named. It was his until the PR would've been too bad to give it to him. Captain naming should've waited until the story died down and then Matthews should've been named. JT has zero personality. Has no resume as any kind of winner, not that Matthews does, but JT is 30 and not close to the player Auston is. I do think he's a good family guy and projects the right/accepted image. Love that he's a nice guy and squeaky clean but he's non-inspirational. The buzz from his signing has long since worn off.  11 million for JT is an absolute waste of resources. An albatross of a contract that will haunt the Leafs in its remaining years. Robidas Island should be his permanent residence. 

 

Marner is a fantastic player. My favorite in the league, but moving him has to be debated internally. You can't have 3 guys making 11 million who all don't get it done in the biggest moments. That's not even advisable if they were the type who did get it done in those moments. The salary cap distribution has been disastrous under Dubas. Kadri kept and no acquisition of JT would've been the correct way to go...but Naz had to go because of the continual playoff suspensions. Yet, there is a huge throng saying that the team shouldn't be blown up after SIX playoff series losses. Had Kadri been kept at his 4.5 million, the Leafs would've had 6.5 million in extra cap and been no worse off production wise and had a very inspirational player in Naz. Hindsight is 20/20 and Naz staying and JT never coming was the way it should've been.

 

Kyle Dubas is a very respectable individual. I love the guy. However, he loves his players too much. They aren't your friends. You have to make tough decisions and throwing cash to JT, Auston and Mitch and even Nylander, at the time, was not wise. Now, he didn't know the cap would be flat at the time he gave them, but his inability to negotiate more team friendly deals has really strapped this team. The JT deal was the worst, and I know others offered more. Kyle should've resisted that temptation. I fear if he stays, he will keep Nylander who is emblematic of much of what has been wrong with this team from the past. I do think the team has grown to put the lack of effort thing to bed. Nylander hasn't, but the team has. A GM that demands winning and doesn't accept losing is needed. The Leafs are way to comfortable reciting the same old phrases after losing. It is unacceptable. It needs to change and remaining the same can't happen. 

 

Personally, I would love to see Shanahan go. Dubas go. Keefe go. Nylander go. Muzzin and Holl go. Kerfoot go. Mikheyev go (I love him in the regular season) along with Simmonds and Spezza. No way I want Mrazek back but that requires a buyout most likely. I don't want Jack back as the #1. Goalie needs at least an infusion of 2 guys. That's a ton of turnover, but a message has to be sent that if you don't win things aren't going to be everyone wins a trophy kind of a thing around there. Losing is losing whether it is pretty or ugly. Process matters a lot but there is no denying the results. They lost...yes, officiating can be pointed to but they still had an opportunity at home and failed...again. 

 

Get your popcorn ready. I disagree with Dreger. There should be massive change and it should be fun to watch unfold. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by 3 Palmateers

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, Toronto Jules said:

Experience is a huge factor in these types of games and that was certainly on the side of Tampa Bay last night.

 

But you're building that with this group so it is important to not go overboard.

 

But your blueline and goal should be the number one goal.

 

Even if you have to move assets to obtain asset to move for something else.

 

Nylander would be a good piece to part with but Marner gives you the biggest return.

 

I can'r say i see enough of the Leafs to have to make that call. But a forward can go i think.

 

 

[Toronto Jules]

I think you are correct on everything except JT. The thing about him never winning well when have they ever won and who with? I don't think that really would have changed with Matthews as the Captain of the team. I am also not going to debate whether JT is a good family man because you know as well as I do that both you and I don't know at all if he is or not. All I know is that the players seem like him and there is some cohesiveness with him as the Captain. I also don't think the Captain has to be the loud outspoken. Yes they have to show what kind of play needs to be performed on the ice and also off the ice and I think he does that. He may not be the player that Matthews is on the ice, but as an all around player I think he gives the team great qualities as a captain. 

[3 Palmateers]

 

 

Glad Jack won't be back and no long-term deals for the kids on D. 

 

Tavares belongs out of the org, be he can't be moved out, only to wing. 

 

Big signing? Fiala? That would have to be a trade but Fiala's on a 1-year deal.  A scorer to replace Nylander. 

 

More tenacity? Yes, please. More, more, more. 

 

Not overly thrilled to hear Dubas is going to be back. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by 3 Palmateers

[3 Palmateers]

9 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Fiala's an RFA.

Thanks. I knew he was on a one year but I swear I read during the St. Louis series about a one-year deal for him...and I thought that meant he'd been extended another one.  I see, now, the only one-year is the one from August. 

 

Searching my history to find what I saw a week or so ago. 

[Math]

Fiala would be a perfect fit for any team who needs to blow a game #7 OT by hitting a 450' home run on the 400 section while having a wide open net in front of him. 

[Holymakinaw]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:02 AM, 3 Palmateers said:

BTW, the Leafs have tied the Hartford Whalers with the longest all-time series losing streak, at six. 

 

No way this team/org is remotely similar next season. 

 

The big debate in Leafs nation is to what extent changes need to be made. The two schools of thought seem to elements of truth in them. Yet, they are so polarizing. 

Do you stay the course believing something will be different? Or, do you make changes and how many? 

 

I do not believe in this age of sports you can just "stick with the plan". The plan has failed 3 straight series. I'd say 4 but Keefe has only failed 3x.  It gets murky because Lou and Babs are tied up into the series losing streak. The commonalities in the Dubas-era are Matthews, Marner, Reilly, Nylander, JT, Muzzin and Holl. 

 

Who stays? Who goes? I would say goodbye to:  Nylander, Muzzin and Holl. I would gladly move on from JT, but he has a NMC and is going nowhere. 

 

Does Keefe stay? Dependent on what happens with Dubas and or Shanahan, but wouldn't be opposed to a Torts or Trotz taking over the reigns. 

 

Does Shanahan stay? I'd move on from him. Shanaplan has failed. 

 

Does Dubas stay? I think that's a tough one. Of course, if Shanahan is out, then Dubas and Keefe's job security is thin ice. 

 

The Leafs are sadly always more interesting after a final game series loss than they are at any other point. Such intrigue now with what 2022-23 looks like. That is the fate of the loser. Always talking about next year when the current year isn't over. 

 

Would love to see legit poll numbers among Leafs nation on what they find acceptable. I think there's going to be a huge disconnect if the organization tries feeding us more of the same next season. It just has to be different in a tangible way to garner any form of belief. You can't keep getting people's hopes up year after year only to never deliver before they tune out. Change is the only remedy. No salesman is good enough to convince this base that more of the same is the right path forward even though it might be. 

 

 

 

 

With the new Goalie tandem & forward additions of Aube-Kubel, Jamkrok & Gaudet..........get ready for 7 straight years.

[Math]

To give some optimism here, the key is not necessarly to have guys with significant playoffs experience but players who actually won the Cup. And Aubé-Kübel is one of them.

 

(I'm trying)

[Tomdog]

I don’t think it matters who they bring in until the whole team realizes that they need to defend and they get better goaltending.