Jump to content

Leafs sign Gio for 2-years, CHEAP


Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, 3 Palmateers said:

Oh, good. Another hanger on at the end of a career wishing for a magical Cup run with the Leafs.

 

Beggars can't be choosers when you're tight up against the cap. 

 

Come on...for the league minimum there's nothing wrong with this signing.

 

Wanna trade him for Ristolainen? Done!

  • Haha 1
  • Good Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Come on...for the league minimum there's nothing wrong with this signing.

 

Wanna trade him for Ristolainen? Done!

😀 The guy will be 39 when puck drops next season. 

 

This is not an effective strategy but the Leafs like collecting guys well past their primes who'll take minimum deals in the hopes of catching a Cup. 

 

What happens is you create a culture of passengers. Young guys thinking the vets are going to help carry them and vice-versa. Everyone needs to be a driver not someone looking at the pretty scenery out the window. 

 

Not a fan of this signing but I like it better than a much younger Simmonds and also Jason Spezza. Joe Thornton was the worst one of them all. Had that guy up playing with Matthews and Marner. 

 

If this is the hedge against a guy like Justin Holl leaving it's a little more palatable but still not preferred. Again, you don't do things like this unless you're forced into them. The cap situation lends itself to needing deals like this. I would prefer the Leafs were not in such a predicament. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gio will be 39 years old next season and he is not the player that is only a few years off of a 74 point season in 2018-19 with Calgary, but he is still a player that can contribute to the defense. Last season between Seattle and Toronto he played 75 games and tallied 27 assists. If the Leafs use him in the bottom end of the pairings of the defense this signing at the minimum cannot be a mistake unless he gets injured and misses most of the season. He will contribute to the team if they utilize him correctly. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 3 Palmateers said:

😀 The guy will be 39 when puck drops next season. 

 

This is not an effective strategy but the Leafs like collecting guys well past their primes who'll take minimum deals in the hopes of catching a Cup. 

 

What happens is you create a culture of passengers. Young guys thinking the vets are going to help carry them and vice-versa. Everyone needs to be a driver not someone looking at the pretty scenery out the window. 

 

Not a fan of this signing but I like it better than a much younger Simmonds and also Jason Spezza. Joe Thornton was the worst one of them all. Had that guy up playing with Matthews and Marner. 

 

If this is the hedge against a guy like Justin Holl leaving it's a little more palatable but still not preferred. Again, you don't do things like this unless you're forced into them. The cap situation lends itself to needing deals like this. I would prefer the Leafs were not in such a predicament. 

 

 

So, you wanna trade him for Ristolainen?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

So, you wanna trade him for Ristolainen?

No, I want Chara out of retirement. Let's get even older on the backend. 😂

 

Friedman reported that Gio was offered closer to 1M and he suggested only taking 800K to help the team's cap. 

 

Gio in a vacuum is fine. This is a recurring pattern from the Leafs given their circumstances. I'd rather see more Liljegren and Sandin, personally. 

 

BTW, @flyercanuckYou LOVE Ristolainen. I'd take him. Heck, I'd settle for Reijo Ruotsalainen. He wants a cup pretty badly but not a native so maybe not as cool for him. He's 5'8 and only 62. Dubas will love him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 3 Palmateers said:

No, I want Chara out of retirement. Let's get even older on the backend. 😂

 

Friedman reported that Gio was offered closer to 1M and he suggested only taking 800K to help the team's cap. 

 

Gio in a vacuum is fine. This is a recurring pattern from the Leafs given their circumstances. I'd rather see more Liljegren and Sandin, personally. 

 

BTW, @flyercanuckYou LOVE Ristolainen. I'd take him. Heck, I'd settle for Reijo Ruotsalainen. He wants a cup pretty badly but not a native so maybe not as cool for him. He's 5'8 and only 62. Dubas will love him. 

 

If you guys had Ristolainen you would have gone out 4 straight. I think Toronto has too much firepower for him to singlehandedly keep you out of the postseason, but he would certainly be dumb enough to get you swept against the champs.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

This is the issue.  Signing him for league minimum is not a reason to jump off the wagon about.  As mentioned, it's not like he's Risto.


However, it's how he's being utilized that needs to be questioned.  Given 20 mins ATOI in the playoffs and 19 ATOI during the regular season.  If that's what they believe Gio is, then maybe they ARE the PERFECT fools to make a Risto trade with Chuck-in-charge...

At the end of the season the Toronto Maple Leafs had Gio working on the 3rd Line pairing. Now he averaged over 20 minutes of ice time last season between Seattle and Toronto and I don't know how much that went down once he came to Toronto, but next season I definitely continue see him on the 3rd D pairing with below 20 minutes of ice time unless significant injuries happen to the Toronto defense during the season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

 

If you guys had Ristolainen you would have gone out 4 straight. I think Toronto has too much firepower for him to singlehandedly keep you out of the postseason, but he would certainly be dumb enough to get you swept against the champs.

Comparing Ristolanian and Gio really is no comaprison at all. They are like night and day. Gio is over 10 years Risto's senior, but Risto players 10 years more than Gio's 38 years of age. 

 

Gio has offensive skills to pass the puck and he also can play defense. Risto is one of the slowest defenseman I have ever witnessed and is horrible on defense and lately has absolutely no offensive skills to add. In his career he has never had a + season and in my opinion never will because his defense is horrible. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Otter said:

Comparing Ristolanian and Gio really is no comaprison at all. They are like night and day. Gio is over 10 years Risto's senior, but Risto players 10 years more than Gio's 38 years of age. 

 

Gio has offensive skills to pass the puck and he also can play defense. Risto is one of the slowest defenseman I have ever witnessed and is horrible on defense and lately has absolutely no offensive skills to add. In his career he has never had a + season and in my opinion never will because his defense is horrible. 

 

Giordano won a Norris...Ristolainen is the exact opposite of what a Norris calibre defenceman is.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

This is the issue.  Signing him for league minimum is not a reason to jump off the wagon about.  As mentioned, it's not like he's Risto.


However, it's how he's being utilized that needs to be questioned.  Given 20 mins ATOI in the playoffs and 19 ATOI during the regular season.  If that's what they believe Gio is, then maybe they ARE the PERFECT fools to make a Risto trade with Chuck-in-charge...

The money is great. I love it. It's that they NEED to do this that is the issue. 

 

For me, the issue is signing guys at the ends of careers who are from there who think they can be passengers for a special Cup run back home. 

 

Everyone loves that story line. A guy from somewhere that goes home to play with his childhood team and looks to win a Cup as he dreamed of as a kid. 

 

It's just tired for me as a Leafs fan. He's at the end of the line career-wise and wants what Toronto offers. A cushy culture hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and win a Cup. 

 

We'll take Provorov straight up. You retain 50%. 😀

 

EDIT: We have fans thinking Gio belongs on the top pairing. Sadly, our GM thinks like a fan and may actually do something like that. Heck, they had Ilya Lyubushkin there. 

Edited by 3 Palmateers
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the Leafs go into next season with the same D core as this past season there is no way that Gio gets the top 2 pairings. Who is he going to outplay? Definitely not, Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, or even Holl or Sandin. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Sorry.  But, that's just not the case.  His regular season TOI/G bounced around between 16 and 25 minutes all season long.  That didn't change when he was moved to Toronto.

 

The same for his playoff numbers, being between 18 and 25 minutes.

 

Yes, if the way Toronto utilized him was as a 3rd pairing dman, it would be a different story.  He's simply not utilized in that way by Toronto.  Whether he will be utilized that way next season remains to be seen.  However, it doesn't appear that's in Toronto's front office's plans if you look at the trend of how they handled him this season.

 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/gamelog/_/id/3006

 

 

I was not sure of the exact amount of ice time he was taking for Toronto , but at the end of the season he was listed as the 3rd Pair Defense on the Toronto Maple Leafs depth chart with Timothy Liljegren. Whether that was a constant, I don't know but that is what it was listed on the teams depth chart at the end of the season. 

 

I also do not see him being used ahead of Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, or even Holl or Sandin next season. That would put him on the 3rd pairing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Him being listed on the 3rd pairing really has no relevance.  The link I posted clearly shows the facts of the TOI/G.

 

I understand where he "might" be slotted on the depth chart.  But, the facts appear to point out that Toronto plays their defensemen fairly equally in each game.  There's exceptions here and there(including Giordano being the exception from time to time where he got big minutes).  But, for the most part, if you look at their TOI/G, they are fairly equal.  And that's the issue that I would have with this signing if I'm a Toronto fan.  If he were the dman that he was in '18-19, that's one thing.  But, he's not that player anymore, and his play doesn't deserve much more ice time that ~13 minutes, imo.

 

But, in order for that to happen, they have to have a few dman that get those additional minutes.  And, while they're good NHL dmen, players like Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin or even Holl are not exactly what would be considered to be "stud NHL dmen" who are locks to play 25-30 mins a game.

You're correct that the time on the ice is significant, but the coaching staff should have the mindset with the dmen they already have in place in Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, and Holl that they should get more ice time in the future due to production and quality of play. We both are not coaches and I think we can see that. It also isn't that the Leafs threw tons of $$$ at Gio so that is also making me think they will have no problem using him in a limited role. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gio was a 3rd pairing guy almost exclusively in Toronto and in the playoffs. 

 

He saw only 20 minutes, or more, ATOI in 5-of-20 regular season games. 

 

Logged 20, or more, in only the OT game. 

 

The thing with him is that most of Toronto's D corps look so bad, defensively, that Gio looks like a potential Norris candidate in comparison.

 

Speaking to defensive capabilities:

 

Rielly is atrocious.

Muzzin was a shell of himself. 

Lyubushkin was physical which nobody else was not even a hurt Muzzin

Brodie was solid

Holl just brutal

Liljegren lots of promise but nowhere near ready

Sandin weak as they come and not ready for a steady role on D

Gio knows what the heck he's doing and isn't afraid out there

 

Overall, just solely on defensive play, he was probably our 1st or 2nd best defensive Dman. 

 

He's at the end, though. I don't think there's all that much left for him and found the fawning over him a bit much. I was impressed, initially, because you did notice it right away. He knows what to do and doesn't look jittery. He's lost a step. Looked foolish a few times that nobody really ever commented on because he was built into this incredible stretch piece and pedestalized.

 

It could be worse. I just wish they'd commit to a Liljegren and get him stronger and Sandin, too. These guys at the ends of careers really are just hanging on hoping for one last shot at glory that just never comes in Toronto. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, 3 Palmateers said:

Gio was a 3rd pairing guy almost exclusively in Toronto and in the playoffs. 

 

He saw only 20 minutes, or more, ATOI in 5-of-20 regular season games. 

 

Logged 20, or more, in only the OT game. 

 

The thing with him is that most of Toronto's D corps look so bad, defensively, that Gio looks like a potential Norris candidate in comparison.

 

Speaking to defensive capabilities:

 

Rielly is atrocious.

Muzzin was a shell of himself. 

Lyubushkin was physical which nobody else was not even a hurt Muzzin

Brodie was solid

Holl just brutal

Liljegren lots of promise but nowhere near ready

Sandin weak as they come and not ready for a steady role on D

Gio knows what the heck he's doing and isn't afraid out there

 

Overall, just solely on defensive play, he was probably our 1st or 2nd best defensive Dman. 

 

He's at the end, though. I don't think there's all that much left for him and found the fawning over him a bit much. I was impressed, initially, because you did notice it right away. He knows what to do and doesn't look jittery. He's lost a step. Looked foolish a few times that nobody really ever commented on because he was built into this incredible stretch piece and pedestalized.

 

It could be worse. I just wish they'd commit to a Liljegren and get him stronger and Sandin, too. These guys at the ends of careers really are just hanging on hoping for one last shot at glory that just never comes in Toronto. 

 

 

I thought Gio was exclusively on the 3rd pairing in Toronto and I did not think he logged 20 minutes or more very often in Toronto. 

 

I definitely don't watch the Maple Leafs as closely as you do, but I believe most view Rielly as having some potiential as a good dmen. The same can be said for Muzzin and Brodie. You are correct that Liljgren may need to take that next step next season and move up to the 2nd line. That again leaves Gio in the bottom half with the like of Holl and Sandin, and Lybushkin if those are actually who are on the team next season. I still don't see Gio sniffing 20 minutes next season unless there are injuries. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't watched the Toronto games exclusively this past season, but I also imagine they had injuries come into play during the season and some of those injuries were probably on the defense. That can also affect the other dmen TOI. Like I said, I don't know where the injuries fell during the season but I can guarantee you the Leafs had them. 

 

As for next season we can sit here and speculate as to say how many minutes he will skate per game or what line he will play. That will not be determined by us in the end and will be a decision that comes down to the coaches that know a hell of a lot more than we know about these players as they see them practice every single day. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Otter said:

I haven't watched the Toronto games exclusively this past season, but I also imagine they had injuries come into play during the season and some of those injuries were probably on the defense. That can also affect the other dmen TOI. Like I said, I don't know where the injuries fell during the season but I can guarantee you the Leafs had them. 

 

As for next season we can sit here and speculate as to say how many minutes he will skate per game or what line he will play. That will not be determined by us in the end and will be a decision that comes down to the coaches that know a hell of a lot more than we know about these players as they see them practice every single day. 

With the Leafs you just never know. Thornton was up with Matthews and Marner when he was here. Simmonds has been on PP1. 

 

Heck, they moved Rielly off PP1 for Gio in the playoffs. 

 

The Leafs are in a perpetual training camp situation. It does not matter if it's Game 7 or the middle of a season. Always experimenting. Always tinkering. 

 

I like that early in a season, but it's endless. 

 

Gio will likely play on all pairs next season. 

 

Just a quick comment on Rielly. He's just horrendous defensively. Very very low on his game and potential to improve there. He's nice offensively. Not special but a very good player in that regard. Sandin has some real potential offensively as does Liljegren. Sandin has the want to and great attitude for hitting and defensive play. His body is just not there yet. Liljegren is inconsistent like most young Dmen.

 

Overall, the D corps is pretty depressing and that's punctuated by Gio looking so good there because the rest are so bad. 

 

Leafs will remain top-heavy with suspect D and goaltending. Another likely 1st round out. Better be careful as teams like Detroit build toward respectability. Montreal will reload and Ottawa has some nice pieces. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, 3 Palmateers said:

With the Leafs you just never know. Thornton was up with Matthews and Marner when he was here. Simmonds has been on PP1. 

 

Heck, they moved Rielly off PP1 for Gio in the playoffs. 

 

The Leafs are in a perpetual training camp situation. It does not matter if it's Game 7 or the middle of a season. Always experimenting. Always tinkering. 

 

I like that early in a season, but it's endless. 

 

Gio will likely play on all pairs next season. 

 

Just a quick comment on Rielly. He's just horrendous defensively. Very very low on his game and potential to improve there. He's nice offensively. Not special but a very good player in that regard. Sandin has some real potential offensively as does Liljegren. Sandin has the want to and great attitude for hitting and defensive play. His body is just not there yet. Liljegren is inconsistent like most young Dmen.

 

Overall, the D corps is pretty depressing and that's punctuated by Gio looking so good there because the rest are so bad. 

 

Leafs will remain top-heavy with suspect D and goaltending. Another likely 1st round out. Better be careful as teams like Detroit build toward respectability. Montreal will reload and Ottawa has some nice pieces. 

I believe all teams tinker throughout the season to find the right combinations on lines and there is nothing wrong with that at all but there comes a time where consistency has to come into play and that should be towards the end of the season and definitely within the playoffs. There should not be tinkering going on during the playoffs unless the team has some sort of major injury that disrupts the system. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...