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Flyers need to trade draft picks or top prospect for a top young dman


Guest RonJeremy
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Pronger is injured again, so we are going to have to make a trade. We cant afford to go a full month with, Bourdon, Marshall or Matt Walker, if he clears waivers. Holmgren needs to realize we rely too much on Pronger and and Timmo and they are both old and Prongs is starting to break down.

The question is , who is avaialble and at what price. i hope Holmgren doesnt get strong armed and overpay for some typical old washed up stiff. We need a young top 2 or 3 dman, not only for now ,but for the future, since its obvious we cant rely on Pronger to play a full season any more.

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There are two that I want that are priced well and mean.

1) Toni Lydman

2) Anton Volchenkov

The problem is what to give up? I would never give NJ a franchise goalie under any circumstances, unless the deal is too good to be true.

We give them our 2nd this year, Bobrovsky, Carle. They give us Volchenkov and Adam Larsson. Now I know this will never happen, but here is my logic. We take the risk with Larsson panning out and they get a solid puck moving defenseman that they are lacking.

On with the Ducks. I have no clue what to offer. Bob would probably sit behind Hiller and their O lines look good. Maybe some picks and some salary the other way.

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i hope Holmgren doesnt get strong armed and overpay for some typical old washed up stiff.

I think that is what would happen at this point. I agree on the need for a dman.

What do the Flyers really have to offer at this point?

  • They have each of the first 3 round draft picks for 2012 & 2013 (whether by trade or their own).
  • Bob – at this point with Bryz sucking, I’m assuming he’s off the table.
  • JVR – a potential power forward (& winger that drives the net) the Flyers have been lacking since…..LeClair?
  • Schenn - not sure how much he is worth right now.
  • Hartnell – My guess is GMs will look straight through his recent point production level to his salary.
  • Shelly (or insert misc, little value 4th liner).

I’m probably missing a few but with my list it’s Bob or JVR + 2012 1st + another pick ….. at the very least for a future #2-#3 young defensemen that can play right now.

Edited by Digityman
Crap --- forgot Schenn
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Pronger is injured again, so we are going to have to make a trade. We cant afford to go a full month with, Bourdon, Marshall or Matt Walker, if he clears waivers. Holmgren needs to realize we rely too much on Pronger and and Timmo and they are both old and Prongs is starting to break down.

The question is , who is avaialble and at what price. i hope Holmgren doesnt get strong armed and overpay for some typical old washed up stiff. We need a young top 2 or 3 dman, not only for now ,but for the future, since its obvious we cant rely on Pronger to play a full season any more.

Getting a top 2 young defenseman is going to cost you more than picks. It will cost you an established roster player. Depending on the team, someone like JVR, Briere, Bobrovsky (still wouldn't call him established, though), Timonen, Carle, etc.

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Id target Suter from Nashville who is an UFA, Id ask about Weber RFA, Nasville will obviously try to keep one of them. Maybe Zac Bogosian from Winnipeg, he was rumored to be available. There are some other teams that have good young dmen , Ottawa, Columbus and PHX.

I wouldnt trade JVR, The only young prospect that will get us a blue chip dman is Schenn. I wouldnt trade him for Suter, since he is an UFA, and we can possibly target him in the offseason, or trade draft picks for him and pre-empt the other teams, like we did in the Timmo /Hartnell deals.

The only way I trade Schenn is for a young dman who is as highly rated but has played in the

NHL .

Winnipeg supposedly was shopping Bogosian, what would it take to land him

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I haven't run the numbers, but unless we move some fairly good sized contracts, I don't see the Flyers getting a number 2 type Dman. Most players that fit the contract criteria have NTC/NMC clauses...Briere, Hartnell, Kimmo...etc. Not saying I would move them, but that's the type of money I think the Flyers might have to move.

Otherwise, it's going to cost you someone good and young....IMO..Shenn or JVR have to be included in almost any deal for that type of Dman. Picks alone won't get it done...due to cap reasons, as well as the 50 max contract rule.

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so we are going to have to make a trade.

Pronger will get healthy soon so if we trade for anyone decent, we will have to clear cap space. This is a tall order and probably impossible without making a mess to replace Pronger for a month. Pass.

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He will get healthy again in a month..........for how long before the next injury. This is something that has to be faced sooner or later. Pronger cant be counted on to be healthy all of the time and he is our only threat on the PP as well. Cap space needs to be cleared to get another dman, then we better do it. Pronger is old and breaking down,and we need another dman, not only as insurance for Pronger but for the immediate and the future. Do we want to take a chance that Pronger gets hurt at year end ,so we can get knocked out in the first round again?

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Looks like Anaheim is in real trouble. Wonder if there's any way we could get Fowler from them. Their problem is offense, defense, goaltending... all around, basically.

Fowler and Ellis for Bobrovsky and Carle or Timonen. Problem is they're cap-strapped too, so they wouldn't be able to take back so much salary.

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Fowler and Ellis for Bobrovsky and Carle or Timonen.

I don't know much about Fowler. Seems like a offensive defensmen. Young at 19. The -38 after 99 NHL games makes me a bit nervous. How does a offensive defensemen help us???

Also, I see allot of posts how people are throwing Kimmo's name in for trades. WHY? We are talking about getting defense help, yet we are going to send out second best defensemen away? That makes NO sense to me. Especially when Kimmo is having one of his best seasons as a Flyer that far.

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@Vanflyer

I think Timmo is great, but he is getting up there in years. The problem is most NHL, no make that all know that we are getting killed on the blue line and need help. That said any logical GM is going to want an asset in return.

Best case scenario is we make due with what we have and our netminders step it up till Pronger returns.

I don't think we need any more offensive dmen and need a good nasty stay at home guy that is responsible in the neutral zone and has a booming shot. Oh wait that sounds like Pronger.....man this is tough seeing him out again.

In any case, I would rather have Toni Lydman to anchor a pairing with Timmonen and offer Anahiem some offensive help.

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@Vanflyer

well regarding timmonen, my thinking goes like this, he's good so he'll bring quality back, he's expensive so he'll clear some cap space, sign the young guy you trade for 44 to a reasonable young guy deal, and take the cap space and make a run at one of the top fa's on the market, everyone likes that suter who's going to be too expensive for nashville, it also means i'm willing to sacrifice this year for next...

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@mojo1917

I guess I see your point, but I still like Timmonen for this team. I think he brings allot of things to the room beyond his tangible assets on the ice. I'd love to have a suter kind of player, but at what cost and what assets. Regarding Suter specifically, he has openly stated that he and Nashville will get it done. Nashville wants him and he wants to stay in Nashville.

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There are two that I want that are priced well and mean.

1) Toni Lydman

2) Anton Volchenkov

The problem is what to give up? I would never give NJ a franchise goalie under any circumstances, unless the deal is too good to be true.

We give them our 2nd this year, Bobrovsky, Carle. They give us Volchenkov and Adam Larsson. Now I know this will never happen, but here is my logic. We take the risk with Larsson panning out and they get a solid puck moving defenseman that they are lacking.

On with the Ducks. I have no clue what to offer. Bob would probably sit behind Hiller and their O lines look good. Maybe some picks and some salary the other way.

Yes. Lydman sign me up.

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There are two that I want that are priced well and mean.

1) Toni Lydman

2) Anton Volchenkov

The problem is what to give up? I would never give NJ a franchise goalie under any circumstances, unless the deal is too good to be true.

We give them our 2nd this year, Bobrovsky, Carle. They give us Volchenkov and Adam Larsson. Now I know this will never happen, but here is my logic. We take the risk with Larsson panning out and they get a solid puck moving defenseman that they are lacking.

On with the Ducks. I have no clue what to offer. Bob would probably sit behind Hiller and their O lines look good. Maybe some picks and some salary the other way.

Are you insane? No trades with NJ, period. With our luck, Bob would turn into the next Brodeur, next year's draft will turn out to be super deep in NHL talent, and Carle will actually play consistently. And all that for a unproven but promising young defenseman, and a offensively inept defenseman (many on this forum already gripe about what we have).

Volchenkov:

Year Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM Hits BkS PPG PPA SHG SHA GW SOG Pct

2009-10 OTT 64 4 10 14 2 38 152 172 0 0 0 1 0 69 .058

2010-11 NJ 57 0 8 8 3 36 125 106 0 0 0 0 0 65 .000

2011-12 NJ 22 0 2 2 -6 12 47 44 0 0 0 1 0 21 .000

Career Totals 507 16 88 104 58 345 324 322 0 4 0 12 2 562 .028

Yeah, big winner. Oh yeah, he's paid 4.25m/yr until 2015-2016 in cap and actual money, with a NTC.

No trades with the Devils, Rangers, or Penguins. None.

Edited by doom88
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@doom88

I am pretty sure my OP said not to do it unless the deal was too good to pass up. I believe I called Bobrovsky a franchise goalie too. It was just mere examples of D men that the Flyers can afford and suit thier needs.

I am going to say that Volchenkov is tougher than anything we have right now and we need some toughness that can actually play the position on the blue line. We have offensivly talented blue liners that cannot live up to their end of the deal because they are playing off their game.

Carle will not be resigned and I am pretty sure we all know this.

Bob is the X factor in my opinion. I wouldn't move him unless we get a solid young player back in return.

Anyhow, what we really need to do is hunker down and wait for Pronger and Lilja to get back in the line up. If we make a move now, we will severely overpay in the end.

I do not like the look of our blue line, but it is what it is until January.

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I don't know much about Fowler. Seems like a offensive defensmen. Young at 19. The -38 after 99 NHL games makes me a bit nervous. How does a offensive defensemen help us???

Also, I see allot of posts how people are throwing Kimmo's name in for trades. WHY? We are talking about getting defense help, yet we are going to send out second best defensemen away? That makes NO sense to me. Especially when Kimmo is having one of his best seasons as a Flyer that far.

The reason you move Timonen now is because he has value. Two more years left on a contract with a cap hit of $6.3M, but only $8M total cash value ($5M and $3M). A team looking to make a serious post season run would love to have Timonen on the blueline, and are only committed to one more year. Unless you really believe our team is a contender, even with Pronger in the lineup, why not make the move for a player who will be 38 at the end of next year and will, in all likelihood, retire? I love Kimmo. But the business sense says move him now while the team is 'retooling' and try to get yourself a top 2 defensive prospect and a capable backup.

Carle would also be good trade bait, but his value, IMO, is a fair bit lower than Timonen because a) he's not as good, and B) he's a UFA at the end of the year.

Briere would also have great value, as much as I would hate to trade him. But you gotta give up quality to get quality in return.

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Fowler and Ellis for Bobrovsky and Carle or Timonen. Problem is they're cap-strapped too, so they wouldn't be able to take back so much salary.

Not sure what this will accomplish. Homer will need to find a way to trade for a d-man without giving up a d-man of his own. Plus, as I said earlier, I really, really don't want to trade Bob. Ellis is what he is, but Bob's ceiling is quite untapped, I think. But the Flyers may have no choice as Bob right now is only one of a few appealing trade chips that other teams will want (aside from the untouchables, of course, like Couturier, Giroux, etc.).

Also, frankly, I am not very high on Fowler. He is a decent skater and puck handler but quite crapy in his own end. Look at his +/- numbers - they are horrible. True, it's a refelction of the crappy team he plays on, but I am just not impressed overall with his defensive play at all.

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I would like to just stand pat right now. We knew this was going to be a work in progress this season and we ARE STILL doing good in the standings. Lets get Pronger back and see what his durability is Jan/Feb. Guffs will be back later also. Mean while, we get to see what Mark Andre and Marshall can do and see if carle can elevate his game. That info will flesh out what we have and don't have. Keep Bob in the rotation for either a showcase for a trade deadline trade for a d-man (if need be) or to keep him sharp in case Bryz goes for another walk in the woods... Just because our defence is beat up doesn,t mean we need a knee jerk trade. IMO anyway...

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Not sure what this will accomplish. Homer will need to find a way to trade for a d-man without giving up a d-man of his own. Plus, as I said earlier, I really, really don't want to trade Bob. Ellis is what he is, but Bob's ceiling is quite untapped, I think. But the Flyers may have no choice as Bob right now is only one of a few appealing trade chips that other teams will want (aside from the untouchables, of course, like Couturier, Giroux, etc.).

Also, frankly, I am not very high on Fowler. He is a decent skater and puck handler but quite crapy in his own end. Look at his +/- numbers - they are horrible. True, it's a refelction of the crappy team he plays on, but I am just not impressed overall with his defensive play at all.

I guess my thinking is for the future. I'm thinking trade TImonen now while he has value. I don't think we're a Cup team this year or next year, so why not use some chips to boost an area of weakness long-term? Fowler has top pairing potential and PP quarterback. He's only 19. That being said, I doubt Anaheim moves him.

ANd as much as I would hate to trade Bob, as you say, he's one of the only appealing chips that we have, and we have to accept that Bryz is the starter for the forseeable future. So, again, why not use Bob in a package if that means a backup goalie in return as well as a future top pairing defenseman?

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I guess my thinking is for the future. I'm thinking trade TImonen now while he has value. I don't think we're a Cup team this year or next year, so why not use some chips to boost an area of weakness long-term? Fowler has top pairing potential and PP quarterback. He's only 19. That being said, I doubt Anaheim moves him.

ANd as much as I would hate to trade Bob, as you say, he's one of the only appealing chips that we have, and we have to accept that Bryz is the starter for the forseeable future. So, again, why not use Bob in a package if that means a backup goalie in return as well as a future top pairing defenseman?

I see your line of thinking. Yeah, I guess if considered in the context of future, it would be good to move Timmonen's salary, which I see a major benefit in this deal. And as reluctant as I am to admit it... I agree that I don't see this team as a contender this year for sure, and likely the next year either.

With that said, I know the Flyers love Kimo (not that I have a problem with him, myself) and I just can't see him moved until/unless it becomes clear that the team is free falling and needsd to start buidling for the future.

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Fowler has top pairing potential and PP quarterback. He's only 19.

the only problem there is trying to project the kid's future. remember when eminger, meszaros, bouwmeester, and phaneuf were all can't-miss bluechip stud future #1 dmen?

i'd be hesitant to move a whole lot for a very young defensive prospect. especially one that has managed to "lead" his team with the worst +/- by a large margin each season in his young career. that's a pretty terrible sign. the kid is on a pace for a -48 this season. O_o

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With that said, I know the Flyers love Kimo (not that I have a problem with him, myself) and I just can't see him moved until/unless it becomes clear that the team is free falling and needsd to start buidling for the future.

I can't see Timonen being moved until Timonen decides he wants to be traded.

Timonen having a No Movement Clause, one year left on what could very likely be his last deal and, as you note, a favorable impression with management.

Luckily we're down to just five NMC/NTC's on the roster...

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