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From The Athletic - Flyers Poll/Survey (Part 6) - Players

The Athletic Flyers Poll/Survey  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Which under 25 player "currently" on the roster do you have the most faith could ultimately develop into a "Star-Level" player?

    • Joel Farabee
    • Carter Hart
    • Cam York
    • Morgan Frost
    • Owen Tippett
    • Bobby Brink
    • Noah Cates
    • Ronnie Attard
  2. 2. Do you believe the Flyers should actively pursue Claude Giroux in free agency this summer? (why or why not discuss below)

    • Yes
    • No
  3. 3. What should the Flyers do with James Van Riemsdyk (JVR) this offseason?

    • Trade him (likely with a sweetener to clear cap space)
    • Buy him out and gain $2.66 million worth of cap room for 2022-23
    • Keep him
  4. 4. Should the Flyers trade Ivan Provorov this off season? (discuss why or why not below)

    • Yes
    • No
  5. 5. Should t he Flyers trade Travis Sanhaim this summer? (discuss why or why not below)

    • Yes
    • No

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12 hours ago, radoran said:

If they need $9+M to pay Tippett and Frost they've got issues...

The buyout savings(2.666) would be about what's needed for signing Tippett and Frost.  There's no need for them to sit at the cap ceiling, and the remaining cap space might be useful to have available at some point during the season.


He should be bought out, spread the lower 5.6 cap hit over the two years with only 1.333 next season, and youth played in his lineup position.  Better than still having JVR's 7.0 hit on the books(dreaming that he suddenly becomes valuable to some team out there-it's not going to happen), lazily taking up a spot in the lineup again, AND adding 2.5+ in Tippett and Frost's contracts.

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22 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Anyone not on that list should be gone.

If only it were that easy.  If these players don't have value, why are other teams interested in them?


How do you expect them to get rid of 15+ players on the roster?  To throw other assets away like draft picks just to unload these players, while gutting the few assets the organization does have to work with?  That's absolutely NOT the way to be a contender.  To retain millions of cap dollars in salaries just to unload these players, cap strapping the team so they have no cap room to improve the team at all?  Absolutely NOT the way to be a contender.  It's hard enough to trade 15+ players that other teams might have interests in.  It's just not realistic to expect to move 15+ that other teams have very little interest in, if any at all.


The way to be a contender is to have a competent front office and scouting department who doesn't target crap like Hayes and Risto and JVR, only to be left with these players that have no value, are overpaid, or both.  Unfortunately, that's not what exists within this organization.  And, simply getting rid of 15+ players just isn't realistic.  Again, this isn't EA's NHL Sports.  I wish it was.  But, it's not.  And, until the organization has the balls to address these main issues that exist in the front office(Holmgren, Lombardi, Fletcher, Hanrahan, Flahr) and this scouting department, and STOPS making these idiotic decisions of players to target IMMEDIATELY, the same mediocrity and incompetence will only continue to dig the hole even deeper that this organization has dug itself into.


If there is any cap money at all, even league minimums, spent on 30+ year old players this season, it's only ANOTHER clear sign, in a LONG ass line of clear signs, that this front office just doesn't get it, and is incapable of learning from their mistakes.

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15 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

How do you expect them to get rid of 15+ players on the roster?  To throw other assets away like draft picks just to unload these players, while gutting the few assets the organization does have to work with?  That's absolutely NOT the way to be a contender. 

i think he was being a bit tongue and cheek there with a bit of sarcasm. Nobody on here excepts to gut the team in one full swoop. Totally agree that is unrealistic. I think think he simply meant there are few players worth keeping on the roster….

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Not surprising but our members also agree with the results .....


The fans still believe in Carter Hart’s potential.


Well, in fairness, it’s not like this question asked whether they remain confident in Hart’s ability to develop into a franchise-changing star. But despite a legitimately awful 2020-21 season and a better but still underwhelming by raw statistics campaign in 2021-22, a plurality still views him as the organization’s best hope internally for a high-end player. Only Joel Farabee is even close to him.


As for the rest of the group? From the respondents, 8.8 percent believe that Cam York could potentially develop into a top-pair, high-end blueliner. There are a few surveyed who followed Bobby Brink’s NCAA-leading scorefest that was the 2021-22 season and have hopes that he could be a major offensive weapon at the NHL level. And even Owen Tippett, Morgan Frost (still) and Noah Cates have scattered supporters as well.

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Not to same I am surprised based off our results .....


From The Athletic ....

I have to say, I did not expect it to be so lopsided, particularly in this direction.


Perhaps most fans surveyed believe there’s little point to bringing Giroux back given the state of the rest of the team. Maybe they’ve just accepted how unlikely it appears to be. Perhaps some would like the Flyers to hand over the leadership mantle to a young group and see his return as a counterproductive measure in that regard. Maybe they look at the team’s cap situation and wonder how he would even fit. Or perhaps there’s a group of fans that no longer wants to subject Giroux to the sorry state of the Flyers and would prefer him to spend his later years in the NHL chasing down that elusive Stanley Cup elsewhere.


In any case, the results are staggering. Three out of every four voters would recommend that the Flyers stay out of the Giroux sweepstakes this July. Fascinating.

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The masses, despite being skeptical of the concept of an aggressive retool and even a moderate retool, still want JvR out.


My guess is that this is mostly a result of general frustration with van Riemsdyk the player, especially after he was largely invisible for the first two-thirds of the 2021-22 campaign. With one year left on his contract, at least 49.7 percent (plus an additional 14.7 percent that simply want to buy him out and jettison him that way) of the surveyed voters are ready for the Flyers to part ways with JvR, even if it means taking a hit in the process. That’s 65.9 percent that want him out of Philadelphia this summer.


Thirty-four percent want the Flyers to hang on to him, however. And the logic there is sound as well — rather than burn assets or suffer a dead cap hit just for the benefit of clearing a few million dollars this season, the Flyers could hang onto JvR for the last year of his deal, hope he helps them compete for a playoff spot and if not, sell him for legitimate assets at the trade deadline, when his cap hit is far less onerous due to teams banking space (and the prospect of salary retention). It’s the difference between paying to get rid of JvR and accumulating assets in return for him.


I disagree with Charlie here (or rather the fans who want to hang on to him for trade value) ... I don't know any NHL team willing to trade legitimate assets for James VanSLOTHdyke.

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Again no surprises here as we voted the same ....However I am shocked more fans want to trade Provorov.


Well, Flyers fans would prefer to keep both Provorov and Sanheim this offseason rather than trade them. But there’s one they’d like to keep a lot more.


It’s no surprise, really — Sanheim had the superior season, winning the Barry Ashbee Trophy that’s given to best Flyers defenseman and fully deserving it as well. Also, Provorov just feels more likely to be included in a blockbuster, player-for-player move over Sanheim, who has just one year remaining on his contract and therefore comes with far less long-term certainty. Still, it’s clear that our surveyed voters aren’t itching to give away either, just as the Flyers aren’t. Given the choice, however, it’s clear which one more of them would trade first.

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1 hour ago, radoran said:

Dave Scott says they're spending to the cap!!!

Haven't seen him say this recently.  Where did he say this?


1 hour ago, radoran said:

I don't agree, of course, but when people tell you who they are, I tend to listen...

Lmao.  If you're believing all that this organization's propaganda machine tells you when they speak, you're just another among the gullible of the fanbase.  The percentage of this fanbase buying into the new shiny toy Tortorella's script that he was given is absolutely hilarious.  If you've listened to this organization's propaganda machine speak often, then you should know better than to listen to what they're saying.  Because they're contradictions are constant and consistent.  What they say are the same cliches and bs in attempts to sell a few tickets to that gullible percentage of the fanbase.


Spending to the cap is ok, if it's being spent on the right product.  However, when it's being wasted on crap like Hayes, Risto and JVR, it's a different story completely.  When it's overpaying 4th line players 3 mil a year who haven't earned it, or giving 5 mil to 22 year olds who haven't earned that type of contract yet(at least it's spent on youth-but that youth still needs to earn their paychecks), while they show the lazy tendencies they've shown after getting that contract, it's a completely different story.  If "spending to the cap" means overpaying more 30+ year old players, it's a completely different story.


If they've learned from their mistakes(nothing they've done shows this to be the case yet), and are instead prepared to pay youth that's earned it to "spend to the cap" that's fine.  Their approach to this draft will be a big statement about the front office, and whether they've learned anything.

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13 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

The percentage of this fanbase buying into the new shiny toy Tortorella's script that he was given is absolutely hilarious. 


You keep saying this and as you say to others this is your opinion but you have zero proof this guy is reading something prepared by the organization.


Why is it not believable that a man can just speak his mind and tell what he expects and wants from his team??


You probably also think the earth is flat too...keep trying. Maybe somebody here will believe you. I get that you hate the front office but stops with the made up stuff you have no proof of....well never mind you're entitled to your opinion - and it is entertaining...no keep it and carry on.



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5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Why is it not believable that a man can just speak his mind and tell what he expects and wants from his team??

And I could ask you the same type of question.  Why is it believable?  Because, what players and coaches say in press conferences in every sport are always truthful?  Because, players and coaches aren't given scripts of talking points by their PR departments when they're scheduled to attend press conferences?  Right...  And, I've got some great land in Florida to sell you.  I swear, it's not swampland...


It's funny that some are complaining about people saying what a coach said are "lies and propaganda", while in their same complaint are calling these opinions lies and propaganda.


5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I get that you hate the front office but stops with the made up stuff you have no proof of...

I don't "hate" this team's front office.  I do dislike A LOT of what they do and how they've dug a huge hole for this organization to have to climb out of.  I do realize the MANY contradictions they've made when speaking what they read on their scripts during press conferences.  Notice how Chuck is now suddenly stating that Tortorella was absolutely his first choice?  This is all from a script of talking points he's been given by the PR department, while it completely goes against what was reported prior to Tortorella being selected by the outside organization hired to select their coach.  BIG, BIG difference there from "hating" anything.  I'm sorry, but you don't know me.  You don't know my family's background or the insight I may have regarding this organization.  And, you never will.  So, you have no idea if I have proof of what I state or not.  Assuming you do would just be foolish.  And, to believe these players and coaches aren't given scripts of talking points by their PR departments when they are about to go to these press conferences would also be absolutely foolish.



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27 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

So you'd answer a question with a question?

Clearly, I answered the question, whether you care to see it or not.  Because, players and coaches absolutely do NOT always speak truth in their press conferences.  And, because players and coaches absolutely do receive scripts of talking points from their PR departments when they're scheduled to appear at press conferences.


27 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Not even going to waste my time.

And yet, you replied without answering my questions, when your question was answered...  🙄

Edited by FireDillabaugh
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1. Which under 25 player "currently" on the roster do you have the most faith could ultimately develop into a "Star-Level" player?


If I am being frank, NONE of the players listed scream "NHL Star!" to me. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean they can't be very good NHL players, either on a line WITH a star player, should the Flyers get one, or as solid supporting players somewhere in the top 9.

I base this on watching some of them play over the last couple seasons, looking at stat sheets, and reading scouting reports that are out there for anyone to read.
If Philly has some players that could come close to being a star type NHL'er, I'd have to say it is either Carter Hart himself (if his confidence isn't completely shot by now that is..AND with a better defense in front of him), Joel Farabee, who has proven he can skate with "the big boys" in the NHL and do pretty well, if inconsistent, or Owen Tippett, who has yet to prove his complete worth in the NHL, but has excelled in every level below to an impressive degree.
Leads me to think that with a bit more seasoning, he could translate his game into a viable NHL caliber version that sees him as a pretty regular contributor.

The rest of the players on the list, interestingly most of which look like they are decent college players, could be hit or miss, and even if they "hit", again, I'd think they are better suited to support roles or secondary scoring types.
Obviously, it is up to the players themselves and the people responsible for putting them in the best position to succeed to do their jobs and get the full potential out of any player.

So, to narrow it down, I will go with Joel Farabee as he is the most proven of this particular group (tough to bypass Carter Hart because I've seen flashes of his brilliance, followed by valleys of despair from him), and I can imagine Farabee being part of a good offensive line for the Flyers should they find compatible linemates for him.
I wouldn't consider Farabee a "star" per se, but let's just say, I wouldn't mind him playing for the Minnesota Wild or the Tampa Bay Lightning...... yep, I think he can be consistent enough to warrant being part of a winning core.



2. Do you believe the Flyers should actively pursue Claude Giroux in free agency this summer? 
Unless Claude Giroux really wants to finish his career as a Flyer, help out with any rebuilds and project players, and take a massive paycut to do all this, the answer is NO.

First off, I don't think he views himself as ready for pasture and should just take a smaller check to help out the youngins.  He still wants to win, wants to win now, considers himself a top six NHL'er capable of driving a winning core.
Whether he actually is anymore or not is irrelevant to him because HE believes he is...which is why I think he will seek to get a pretty sizeable final contract from someone who is close to winning.

Giroux was and may still be a favorite among many Flyers fans, but his time, his core group, and his age range MUST be moved on from by the Flyers.
Taking something from my own personal fan history, guys like Vinnie Lecavalier and Brad Richards...loved this guys. And after they were traded away and/or bought out, the Bolts had the opportunity to bring them back in some fashion.
I am glad they didn't.....even though they are two of my favorite all time Lightning players.

Their time was done and the organization couldn't properly move forward with those guys being brought back trying to hang onto past glories. The org needed new blood and hand the reigns over to a younger crowd, which turned out to be Stamkos and those who came after him.
Flyers need to do the same.



3. What should the Flyers do with James Van Riemsdyk (JVR) this offseason?

One year left, albeit at a hefty 7M cap hit? I'd say bite the bullet, keep him on and move on from him next season.
If some team thinks they can "resuscitate" him somehow, and they are willing to give the Flyers a middling type player or two for him, or even a mid round selection and a mid grade prospect, I'd say Philly should take it and be done with it.....even if they have to retain a bit of salary (remember, just for the year....a year in which the Flyers should be transitioning, not going for a Cup anyways).

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, should the Flyers attach young players or draft picks simply to 'get rid' of JVR's contract, nor should they buy him out (that should be saved for bigger headaches like Hayes or Risto with the longer contracts).
Either ride it out with him, or see if someone thinks they can do something with him Philly couldn't and be rid of him that way. That's it.



4. Should the Flyers trade Ivan Provorov this off season?
5. Should t he Flyers trade Travis Sanhaim this summer? 

Putting those two together because, really, I don't know! If both or either were 30 or more, easily the answer is trade them, yes.
Or if they were both around the 22-24 age range, the easy answer is keep them for the rebuild.
But we are talking 25 and 26...the age where they should be hitting their strides with a winning core....yet they aren't, and the Flyers aren't.

Can they turn things around for themselves in just a season or two moving forward? How fast can the organization get things back on track before they start to age out?
What is the market for those two players anyways? Will Sanheim take less to stay on, maybe on a prove it contract?

Lots of moving parts here. Many of which, I am not sure the Flyers have what it takes to make them viable should they stick around or properly get the right value for should they decide to trade them.
An honest "I don't know!" for this one. 
Perhaps after the fact, once the season starts, and other decisions are made, would it become clearer what Philly should do with those two players, but right now, the answer, IMO, is murky at best....UNLESS the Flyers commit to a complete overhaul, in which case, they should trade them for picks and prospects....especially Provorov whom other teams are sure to see some redemption value there.

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Do the Flyers have a single player/prospect who is or will be in the next 5 years as good as Brayden Point?  I'm not sure we do.


Brayden Point is very good and has made exactly one ASG.


I just do not see anyone in our system who is going to be even close to a multi-ASG player.


Show me the SC winner from the last 10-20 years that didn't have at 2-3 of these guys.

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