Tony D'Angelo for 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks

[ruxpin]

18 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

For a team with locker room issues already, let's throw a Qanon follower into the mix and see if it improves.

 

What his opponents look like to him

 

[FD19372]

16 minutes ago, Cheesesteak said:

"He's regarded as a talented offensive defenseman, but he struggles defensively."

 

Boy, that's something you wanna hear about a guy your team trades for...a Dman who can't play D.  

 

Cripes. They could have just kept Ghost, FWIW.

[vis]

Really torn on this.

 

They need a quarterback on the PP, so I think they could use someone with his skillset.  And if Ellis is LTIR'd, then the need for an NHL dman is even greater (though I don't think he fills the role that Ellis would theoretically fill).  From an on-ice perspective, this makes sense to me.  So, neither the picks nor contact bother me much.  

 

So obviously the issue here is whether his racism/homophobia and lockerroom issues are behind him.  I just hope the team did their homework here and that those issues have been addressed.  I mean, what could go wrong bringing in a player known for being divisive to a team with supposed lockerroom issues? 

[FD19372]

Alex Bump, high school forward, picked by Forrest Gump and the Flyers, in the 5th round...pick #133.

[icehole]

44 minutes ago, Cheesesteak said:

"He's regarded as a talented offensive defenseman, but he struggles defensively."

 

Boy, that's something you wanna hear about a guy your team trades for...a Dman who can't play D.  

 

I hate to say it, but the defense of a defenseman isn't that important anymore. Erik Karlson wasn't a good defenseman. Does Makar have great defense (I honestly don't know).  There's a lot of Norris trophy winners that weren't great a defensemen. 

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, icehole said:

I hate to say it, but the defense of a defenseman isn't that important anymore. Erik Karlson wasn't a good defenseman. Does Makar have great defense (I honestly don't know).  There's a lot of Norris trophy winners that weren't great a defensemen. 

Agreed.   This is part of the reason I keep hearing commentators talk about how there aren't very many good goalies right now and don't seem to understand why.

 

I'm okay with an offensive defenseman who isn't great in the D end.   I get more frustrated with a defenseman who stinks in both ends.   Looking at your Rasmus!  

Edited July 8, 2022 by ruxpin

[icehole]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Agreed.   This is part of the reason I keep hearing commentators talk about how there aren't very many good goalies right now and don't seem to understand why.

 

I'm okay with an offensive defenseman who isn't great in the D end.   I get more frustrated with a defenseman who stinks in both ends.   Looking at your Rasmus!  

Brent burns is a career -38. Karlsson is -77!  +/- isn't everything but I don't know how else to rank the defense a defenseman has.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

25 minutes ago, icehole said:

Brent burns is a career -38. Karlsson is -77!  +/- isn't everything but I don't know how else to rank the defense a defenseman has.

 

Giveaways.
I have found it's a decent enough metric, combined with +/- to help judge a defenseman's capabilities in the area of actual defense.
If he is coughing up the puck too much, it leads to odd man rushes and/or breakaways = bad defense.

He hangs onto the puck, obviously, he maintains possession, thus keeping it out of the hands of the opponent = good defense.

DeAngelo still coughed up the puck a bit more than I am sure coaches would have liked in Carolina, so that is something he will still need to work on.
That said, his giveaways HAVE come down since his playing days with the Rangers, so perhaps the marked improvement can be continued in Philadelphia.
Unless of course, he has plateaued in that area, and he is what he is gonna be at this point....an offensive defenseman, who will drive coaches crazy with the bad giveaway here and there.

[flyer4ever]

So, 5 draft picks later, they could have just kept Ghost. 

My guess here is Brindamour told the gm to get him out. He does have talent, but why did the Canes give up on him?

Chuckles is in full on crisis mode to get back to mediocre. What a dick .

And the stupidity isn't done yet. There are still shiny toys out there.

[pilldoc]

2 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

I know I'm an outsider, and don't think I'll be seen as trolling, but I don't like this move at all for the Flyers. DeAngelo will get his points, but can't play defense, has a checkered past, and will be paid more than he's worth. In back-to-back years, the Flyers have added two defensemen who are expensive in cap hit and draft pick capital, and neither of them can play defense.

 

 

You will never be seen as a troll.......you are a valued member with great NHL insight.  And ...I agree with your post 100%.

[pilldoc]

Please someone tell me this has to be some sort of sick joke ....right???

 

I am at work and just logged on ......

 

 

[pilldoc]

I honestly cannot get over this. You know that meme from 'The Office' where Pam says, "they're the same picture"? That is what we have here.

 

Leaving aside the off-ice issues from DeAngelo – he fought his goalie 18 months ago! – they are more or less the same player. I believe that DeAngelo is the superior puck-mover, but Ghost is very good himself, and the defense from both players is horrific. Regardless, the Flyers did what they did.

[Howie58]

This is a headscratcher. Comments so far are on point.  The "mavens" like FlyersFanForever and Legorocks (YouTube) ask if this is part of a bigger picture? That includes other D deals and tacit acknowledgement that as I like to put it, Ryan Ellis = Mike Rathje.  The behavioral aspect is worst.  It's a sign of desperation from a franchise that doesn't have the talent pool to grow from within.  His politics are fringe, but let's not forget Green Bay QB Aaron Rodgers has hinted at similar views.  I also recall Stanley Cup winning goalie  Tim Thomas refusing to attend the White House celebration because of his disagreement with the federal government's role.  But political views are one thing, behavioral issues are another.  That said, certain political views might intersect with locker room stability, which could make them "behavioral."  In any event, this is a bit screwy.  

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Howie58

[pilldoc]

For those keeping score at home .....  I found this gem .....

 

As that graph shows, his offensive impact is very high. A couple reasons for that, according to tracking data from Corey Sznajder, is that he has excellent controlled zone entry rates, is great at finding teammates for shots in the offensive zone, and can play both off the rush and in a cycle situation:

 

 

He was elite in a lot of the important tracking stats in his 2021-22 season with the Hurricanes, something that has persisted for most of his career. His problem, as is very obvious by all those orange bars at the bottom of that card, is that his defense is bad. He can't exit the zone with control very often and when he tries, he often fails at it. He also gives up the blue line at will, which gives the opponent lots of chances to establish their own cycle, or get good shots off the rush. He is an offensive defenseman in every sense of the word and I, for one, cannot wait to see how that goes along with John Tortorella's defense-first mentality.

 

The Flyers do get an excellent puck-moving defenseman that can run a power play, something they haven't had consistently at least since Ghost left, and even before that. The Flyers were dead last in the NHL in 5-on-4 scoring.  I get why the went after a player like DeAngelo, who will certainly, IMO, quarterback the team's top PP unit.

 

I hope this should help guys like Coots, Atkinson, and TK. It probably does put an end to any hope of Cam York stepping up as the PP1 QB.

 

It is at the other end that the problems start...putting it mildly, this is not a good team defensively.  PERIOD.  adding DeAngelo to a defense corps that includes Rasmus Ristolainen does not bode well for their in-zone defense. If DeAngelo's defensive problems really start being an issue at even strength, he will not be given a lot of minutes in a Tortorella system.

 

I'm sorry, but I see a disaster of Titantic proportions with the Flyers defense to the point Hart is going to need his shrink on speed dial.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

What his opponents look like to him

 

probably some of his teammates look that way to him as well

[SCFlyguy]

He started a physical altercation with his goalie when he was a NYR.  They immediately cut him instead of trying to get anything for him.  My guess is this guy is a total a-hole and none of his teammates can stand him.  Perfect for an imploding team.  Just hope Fletcher gets fired before he trades any more picks because those picks are going to be very high for a long time.

 

 

[mojo1917]

7 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

He started a physical altercation with his goalie when he was a NYR.

I didn't know why everyone says he's a douche.

I just thought he said a bunch of stupid Kyrie Irving type **** about the earth being flat and parasite medication working inside cells. 

 

awesome.

[jammer2]

If he keeps his cool and is a decent teammate I'm ok with this. Getting a top 10 offensive Dman for picks that historically net nothing is a good use of assets. 

  The extension is 2 years which is decent, not married long term but bridges the gap until York is ready to take over the top pp reigns. 

  5 mill a year is good value. He IS a top 10 offensive d man. Any defensive shortcomings can be mitigated by playing him with the right defensive partner.  He had a very nice plus minus in Carolina playing for a system coach in Brindy...that is what Torts is, a system coach that emphasizes play away from the puck. Nice term, workable cap hit AND strong zone exit stats. I'm good. 

[Fizz]

Flyers land DeAngelo from Hurricanes, reach 2-year contract https://www.tsn.ca/1.1822974.1657294729

 

Not sure how I feel about this.

It looks like the guy wears out his welcome on a team pretty quick.

Discuss.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

DeAngelo is from the Philly area.  I remember the year he was drafted.  The Flyers passed over him and I think it was his dad, said something to the effect…”I guess we’re not Flyers fans anymore.”

 

I hope this motivates him to play well.

[Lindbergh31]

4 hours ago, jammer2 said:

We needed a legit pp qb...and honestly, these 2nd, 3rd, 4th picks are fools gold. 5% chance they ever amount to anything substantial. I'm more worried about Torts vs Tony...kid better toe the line. 

I don't have a problem with this trade especially if that means Ellis is done. If that is true then maybe Fletcher can trade his contract to a team who needs the cap hit. As for the 2 year deal for Tony at least it's short term. As for Tort's it will be interesting to see how he is with Tony.

[jammer2]

Another factor, the pp has sucked for years. The difference between making the playoffs and missing IS special teams. York did not look ready to take the top pp reigns, Provy was NOT the answer, as we know all to well. Tony is elite at puck dispersal and finding open shooting/passing lanes. The pp needed this badly. Hoping York is ready not a plan for something as crucial as the top pp. Fresh start! Free of a decade of G on the half wall! New concepts, new ideas with a pp qb that can carry them out!

[Fizz]

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I'm curious where this is coming from. I've never personally read anything to suggest they had locker room issues. I'm not saying you're wrong by the way. It's entirely possible I just haven't seen the sources on this. I don't spend all day digging for stuff. 

I would say locker room issues as in no real leadership.

My opinion though.

[GrittyForever]

Well idk. Rangers ditched him and he looked like a guy you should steer clear from but he was pretty good for Carolina so I just give this a big maybe. Has the potential to be a huge disaster too. I'm going to be optimistic and hope him and Torts will be on the same page.

[jammer2]

4 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Lmao.  Except the fact that he's not a "top 10 offensive Dman"...

 

"That historically net nothing"?  Not sure what NHL you're watching.  But, this simply isn't a true statement at all.  And, just because Chuck and Co. are a bunch of incompetent managers doesn't mean draft picks should just be thrown away like they have been.

Um...51 pts in 64 games last year. Thats 0.8 pts per game. THAT is certainly top 10 offensive numbers for a d man. I'm not gonna waste my time going back and looking through the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks for the Flyers that have produced 0.8 pts per game...quick answer...there is none...ever. What NHL YOU watching??