Tony D'Angelo for 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks

[elmatus]

@mojo1917

 

Ah, yeah. I watched the first ten mins of that when it released and got bored when he talked about the emblem and whatever other communications garbage. I didn’t get to the splintered locker room bit. 
 

That is interesting though. I wonder what he means when he says that. Losing the team captain certainly wouldn’t help the situation. I wonder if part of it is a sort of leadership vacuum in the locker room. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

16 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Um...51 pts in 64 games last year. Thats 0.8 pts per game. THAT is certainly top 10 offensive numbers for a d man. I'm not gonna waste my time going back and looking through the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks for the Flyers that have produced 0.8 pts per game...quick answer...there is none...ever. What NHL YOU watching??

 

If DeAngelo works out (spotty defense aside), then I don't think anyone will quip too much about the picks given up, although, I CAN see the viewpoint of "that was a lot to give up for a decidedly 'flawed' defender".

Would the Flyers have done better keeping the picks then making the correct choices? Who knows.
Track record says "No", so getting a guy who could possibly help the PP (and one who could be a top guy at running an offense as you pointed out), seemed the way to go in the Philly FO eyes.

Arguments can be made back n forth (and they have already!) about whether a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, or vice versa.
Potential has to be realized, or some such thing like that.

If so, then the Flyers gave up a lot of unrealized potential, for a proven player who HAS played like a top 10 offensive d-man.

But, boy oh boy, if DeAngelo messes this latest chance up with some stupid non hockey incident.....yikes...

[radoran]

4 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

For a team with locker room issues already, let's throw a Qanon follower into the mix and see if it improves.

 

Michael del Zotto apparently retired. I know, right?

 

4 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

@elmatus

 

 

splintered not fractured, certainly not broken and there is no rift. Just some splinters. Little things. Some wood glue and filler and it'll be fine.

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

One thing that might be worth noting for Flyer fans:

It seems DeAngelo responds better to head coaches directness, even a bit of hard-ass to their style.
That didn't seem to be the case when he was drafted by the Lightning then assigned to Syracuse, didn't seem to be the case when he was in the Yotes organization, both in Arizona and Tucson for the Roadrunners, and didn't seem it at first, when he was traded to the Rangers.....until David Quinn was named head coach there.

Quinn, apparently, had a reputation for being a 'direct' guy, a bit of a hard ass on his players, and a guy who put up with ZERO nonsense (and probably communicated that in a non family friendly way behind closed doors and away from the eyes of the public!), and it seemed DeAngelo thrived there for a bit till the incidents with the goalie and K'Andre Miller.

Not sure about Carolina (maybe Carolina really DID prefer the picks over the player for the long term), but in Philly, DeAngelo now deals with John Tortorella, who sounds like he and David Quinn have much in common in how they handle their business.

If so, DeAngelo may fall in line as he seems to respond and/or respect the "iron hand".

Yes, this is hopeful thinking for Flyer fans, but, what else ya gonna do?
You got the guy now, he does have an impressive offensive skillset, he CAN help the team as far as production, if not in his own end, and all he's gotta do is keep his nose out of trouble....with the media, teammates, the officials...all of it....and the draft capital given up won't seem as bad.

Torts may very well have the same effect on DeAngelo Quinn had: Keep him focused on hockey...even if that comes as a side effect of fearing losing ice time or even his roster spot to someone else.

[radoran]

13 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I wonder if part of it is a sort of leadership vacuum in the locker room. 

 

Taryn Wanderer said it was more like guys not buying in 100% and not having the little things between guys on a tight team.

 

Seemed to imply, playing out the string and playing not to get hurt, and that can rub some guys the wrong way.

 

Tortorella knows he has a chance to be the leadership to start camp, put his stamp on things, and set the tone.

 

If they're wise (they are not wise) they will put off naming a captain for the next season until after camp or even later.

[JR Ewing]

 

@TropicalFruitGirl26I'm all for being positive, but neither DeAngelo nor Ristolainen can play defense, and both surrender the blueline far too easily. You can cover for one defenseman like that, but the Flyers can't do it because they're both right-handed. If they shelter DeAngelo, Risto gets tougher minutes, and if you shelter Risto, DeAngelo gets them.

 

Fletcher gave his blue line no cover, because 2/3 of his right side can't defend.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by JR Ewing
edited for typo

[Lunatic]

I haven't posted in awhile. I guess that I was too frustrated with the Flyers to have any investment in them. The management of the teams is crazy. The Flyers dealt Shayne Gostisbehere who had a 4.5 million dollar contract

to the Coyotes, along with a 2022 second-round pick and the 2022 seventh-round pick for the 2022 season, then turn around at the end  the season and acquire Tony Angelo for  second, third and fourth round picks and pay him five million dollars a year. The players are similar except that Ghost had a good reputation. So in effect they paid two second, a third, fourth and seventh round picks for a player with similar profiles and an additional half a million dollars a year.  Who is guarding the hen house?

[JR Ewing]

1 minute ago, Lunatic said:

I haven't posted in awhile. I guess that I was too frustrated with the Flyers to have any investment in them. The management of the teams is crazy. The Flyers dealt Shayne Gostisbehere who had a 4.5 million dollar contract

to the Coyotes, along with a 2022 second-round pick and the 2022 seventh-round pick for the 2022 season, then turn around at the end  the season and acquire Tony Angelo for  second, third and fourth round picks and pay him five million dollars a year. The players are similar except that Ghost had a good reputation. So in effect they paid two second, a third, fourth and seventh round picks for a player with similar profiles and an additional half a million dollars a year.  Who is guarding the hen house?

 

From an outsider's perspective: it's tough to look at that series of moves and see a grand plan in place, eh?

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

14 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

@TropicalFruitGirl26I'm all for being positive, but neither DeAngelo nor Ristolainen can play defense, and both surrender the blueline far too easily. You can cover for one defenseman like that, but the Flyers can't do it because they're both right-handed. If they shelter DeAngelo, Risto gets tougher minutes, and if you shelter Risto, DeAngelo gets them.

 

Fletcher gave his blue line no cover, because 2/3 of his right side can't defend.

 

 

I know, JR.
Just trying to find the silver lining for the Flyers in this.

Even if DeAngelo were a staunch defender, it would take more than that to turn the Flyers into a "good defensive team".
My thinking here is, the guy is in Philly, whether fans like it not, and they can either continue to bemoan the fact that Fletcher gave up lots to acquire him (I acknowledge he did!), or can try to see what positives can possibly come out of this.

Who knows...maybe DeAngelo plays well enough to where the Flyers can actually raise his value, attract the interest of someone ELSE, then flip him at the deadline when the likely scenario that Philly isn't going anywhere this year either becomes readily apparent to even the Flyer FO.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Who knows...maybe DeAngelo plays well enough to where the Flyers can actually raise his value, attract the interest of someone ELSE, then flip him at the deadline when the likely scenario that Philly isn't going anywhere this year either becomes readily apparent to even the Flyer FO.

 

Now there's a thought.  And even at $5M, DeAngelo has enough offense that he'd be attractive to an actual good team that could hide him on the 2nd or (preferrably) 3rd pairing.

 

18 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

From an outsider's perspective: it's tough to look at that series of moves and see a grand plan in place, eh?

 

Outsider, insider, upsider, downsider.  All siders:  can't finde the grand plan.  The grand plan does not exist. 

 

23 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

I'm all for being positive, but neither DeAngelo nor Ristolainen can play defense, and both surrender the blueline far too easily. You can cover for one defenseman like that, but the Flyers can't do it because they're both right-handed. If they shelter DeAngelo, Risto gets tougher minutes, and if you shelter Risto, DeAngelo gets them.

 

Yeah, this will be a cluster.   The only thing I can guess -- but only on significant psychodelics mixed with Jager -- is that they think Torts will play a style with his forwards that will help his defense.    Yeah, I almost got through typing that with a straight face.  

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

On the lighter side of things, and to take the edge off the fans a bit, ya'll can blame Steve Yzerman here for all this craziness regarding DeAngelo:

 

Yzerman, after all, DID draft him in the first round (19th overall), set these high expectations from everyone for him, then promptly traded him, thus infecting the rest of the league while he continued his master plan in Tampa Bay, and even now in Detroit, while his rivals are confounded by the DeAngelo Virus.  

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, FireDillabaugh said:

But, either way, they got assets in return and didn't need to overpay the guy again after learning from that mistake of paying him the ridiculous contract that the clueless Jeff Gorton gave him in NY. 

Carolina didn't trade for him and didn't assume the NY contract.  NY cut him and Carolina signed him to a one-year $1M contract, then offloaded him to a dumber team for a handful of picks at the first opportunity.

[Howie58]

I agree with the Top Shelf Hockey YouTuber than Fletcher is probably on a very short leash, perhaps 30 games.  Giving this guy 2 years makes little sense given his history. Maybe he is less physically brittle than Ghost, but his baggage is hard to swallow.  

 

Per my comment above, I have to believe this is coming in the context of a Ryan Ellis systems failure, at least for the coming year, if not beyond.  That is another deal likely to go down as one of our worst in recent history.  

 

Meanwhile, the "aggressive retool" effort doesn't alter the fundamental shortcomings while future draft picks that could replenish the system are given away.  I wonder if we will be a .500 team next year?  I doubt it.

 

 

[J0e Th0rnton]

2 hours ago, jammer2 said:

If he keeps his cool and is a decent teammate I'm ok with this. Getting a top 10 offensive Dman for picks that historically net nothing is a good use of assets. 

  The extension is 2 years which is decent, not married long term but bridges the gap until York is ready to take over the top pp reigns. 

  5 mill a year is good value. He IS a top 10 offensive d man. Any defensive shortcomings can be mitigated by playing him with the right defensive partner.  He had a very nice plus minus in Carolina playing for a system coach in Brindy...that is what Torts is, a system coach that emphasizes play away from the puck. Nice term, workable cap hit AND strong zone exit stats. I'm good. 

Torts is going to eat this kid alive unless he learns to block shots and play defense lol.

 

Torts usually doesn't give an f how good you are offensively if you don't do certain things on the ice.

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Not mad at you at all!    We've disagreed before and will again.   But ultimately, I enjoy reading your posts and our banter.  You're one of the good guys.  No worries.

 

Good to hear.

 

I am so exhausted with this team something good has to come their way soon.....right?

[Mad Dog]

I am good with this acquisition. He is one of the best offensive d-men in the league. Yes, he is not the best defensively, but it's not like we are talking Karl Dykhuis here. Pair him with a stay-home d-man and I bet you will not even notice his defensive mishaps. With 1.5 points per 60 minutes last year ranks him 8th among all d-men in 2021-2022, sharing the company with the likes of Cale Makar, Fox, Carlson, Josi, Devon Towes, and Hedman. And he is only 26 years old with huge ceiling.

 

Now... I don't like DeAngelo as a person. I don't know which sane person would... He is a bigot and seems to actually take pride in this. So the Flyers' character is taking a dent here. But in terms of a player, this is an immediate and undeniable upgrade. We all know how abysmal the Flyers' blueline looked last year.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Mad Dog

[OccamsRazor]

Is this Chuck replacing Niskanen or Ellis?

 

 

I guess I'll have to wait. 

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Good to hear.

 

I am so exhausted with this team something good has to come their way soon.....right?

Almost gotta be praying for a blimp incident, huh?

 

You would think something good comes just out of random law of averages.

[radoran]

4 hours ago, Lunatic said:

 Who is guarding the hen house?

 

The fox has always been guarding the hen house 

 

It's the way they've always done it.

 

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

  The grand plan does not exist. 

 

"Make the playoffs this season" is the plan.

 

It's the way they've always done it.

 

2 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

So the Flyers' character is taking a dent here.

 

And the contract extension.

 

#winning

 

It's the way they've always done it.

[Pedo 228 ERQS]

3 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Torts is going to eat this kid alive unless he learns to block shots and play defense lol.

 

Torts usually doesn't give an f how good you are offensively if you don't do certain things on the ice.

Sanheim  is in the same boat he is then

[radoran]

6 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

maybe DeAngelo plays well enough to where the Flyers can actually raise his value, attract the interest of someone ELSE, then flip him at the deadline

 

Look, I already SAID Michael del Zotto retired...

[vis]

Reading through this thread, do people honestly think Ghost is as good on the ice as D'Angelo?  The stats over the past three years indicate D'Angelo is a superior offensive player.  Not sure about the defensive side of the puck, but it's hard to be worse than Ghost in that respect when he was here.  Plus, D'Angelo is an RHD and three years younger than Ghost.  D'Angelo is getting only $500,000 in AAV more than Ghost is getting this upcoming season.

 

Ghost was waived and went unclaimed during the season prior to the trade.  Flyers couldn't give him away without giving up assets for someone to take him.  Do people think that would have happened if D'Angelo was waived this past year (even if he were paid Ghost's salary)?  Seems really doubtful.  Pretty evident that, even considering D'Angelo's past issues, GMs around the league regard him as a better player than Ghost. 

 

Are people bothered by the picks given up in the D'Angelo trade?  I could appreciate that, but picks are crapshoots.

[radoran]

17 minutes ago, vis said:

Ghost was waived and went unclaimed during the season prior to the trade.  Flyers couldn't give him away without giving up assets for someone to take him.  Do people think that would have happened if D'Angelo was waived this past year (even if he were paid Ghost's salary)?

 

I mean, DeAngelo WAS waived. The Flyers could have claimed him then.

 

They didn't. The Hurricanes gave him a one year deal for $1M

 

The Flyers waited a year and gave up three draft picks for him and handed him a two year $10M contract.

 

What could go wrong?

 

I'm not saying this WILL go wrong. But my del Zotto references aren't entirely off base until they are...

Edited July 9, 2022 by radoran

[vis]

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

I mean, DeAngelo WAS waived.

Not last year and not because of his on-ice play, which was the point of my post.

 

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

The Flyers could have claimed him then.

 

They didn't. The Hurricanes gave him a one year deal for $1M

 

The Flyers waited a year

No one claimed him given the circumstances under which he has waived.  

 

And maybe the Flyers should have given him a deal last year.  But, again, given the circumstances seems like no one other than Carolina wanted to take that chance.  I don't fault the Flyers for not signing him in the offseason -- especially with eyes set on Ellis.

 

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

But my del Zotto references aren't entirely off base until they are...

Why? Because del Zotto is an offensive defensemen and has an Italian surname which begins with a "D"? 

 

I don't think they are all that comparable.  Del Zotto topped out at 41 points in 77 games.  DeAngelo has had 50+ points in two season with less than 70 games played each time.  Plus, del Zotto lacks any semblance of competitiveness, something that apparently isn't the case with DeAngelo (and may actually be a weakness).  Yeah, they both aren't great defensively, that's fair.  But I think you're shortchanging DeAngelo's on-ice performance when comparing him with del Zotto (even more so than when people compare DeAngelo to Ghost).

[flyercanuck]

So is Fletcher the worst GM in Flyers history or the worst GM in NHL history?