Ryan Ellis Injury Thread - Career Ending?

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

that in itself is just mindboggling ......  

 

Oh, just wait. It gets better.

 

The guy who signed Bryzgalov to that contract? He got promoted. He's involved in, among other things, selecting the General Manager.

 

They also put him in the Flyers Hall of Fame.

 

[pilldoc]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

Oh, just wait. It gets better.

 

The guy who signed Bryzgalov to that contract? He got promoted. He's involved in, among other things, selecting the General Manager.

 

They also put him in the Flyers Hall of Fame.

 

 

And people want to know why this franchise is screwed ....they reward folks for screwing up ........  

[pilldoc]

Flyers top Worst Contracts past decade:

 

1) Ilya Bryzgalov. After trading Jeff Carter and Mike Richards to L.A., the Flyers signed the 6’3, 216-pound net-minder to a whopping nine-year, 51 million dollar.  And we are still paying for it.

 

2) Andrew MacDonald.  comes in at number two. Holmgren traded for MacDonald’s services in exchange for Matt Mangene and a second and third-round pick at the 2014 Trade Deadline (SMH) and subsequently extended him for six years and 30 million dollars a month later.  It was a mind-numbing signing at the time, and hamstrung the organization for five years. Being overused by coach Dave Hakstol and dominated by all competition across the league, MacDonald was a disaster for the Flyers until he was finally, mercifully, bought out by Chuck Fletcher in the summer of 2019.

 

3) Vincent Lecavalier. If you don’t recall, the Tampa Bay Lightning bought out the 1998 First Overall Selection during the 2013 offseason, and the Flyers swooped in and inked him to a five-year, 22.5 million contract about a weeks later. For whatever reason, Holmgren thought it’d be a tremendous idea to give, at the time, a 33-year-old centerman who was increasingly missing time due to injury a five-year deal. I mean, nobody could’ve seen this contract going awry, not a single soul. 

 

4) Dale Weise. Hextall signed Weise to a four-year, 9.4 million dollar on the first day of the 2016 Free Agency period.  Seriously a 4th line bottom dweller here ....... just shoot me now.

 

5 Chris Pronger.  No one foresaw how his career was going to end, but come one he was 35 when he signed his extension.  A seven-year extension to boot in the summer of 2010. Since he was over 35 when he signed the contract, the Flyers were on the hook for his $4.9 million cap hit if he retired before the contract ended. Well, that’s exactly what happened. Pronger’s playing career came to an end in early 2011 and the Flyers were responsible for five more years of his contract. He was on the books until the summer of 2015 when his contract was traded to the Yotes in the desert.

 

6) Matt Read. Signed as a free agent out of college, Matt Read may be one of the biggest one-hit wonders in recent Flyers history. After bursting onto the scene in 2011-12, he scored 24 goals and 47 points. Two seasons later he’d hit the 20-goal, 40-point mark again and was rewarded with a four-year $14.5 million contract. Immediately after signing his new deal he just about disappeared completely. Scoring just 31 goals and 77 points over the next four seasons, he just couldn’t live up to the contract, eventually finding himself in the AHL.

 

That is some list ........   bottom line, this team just does not learn from its past mistakes and history.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by pilldoc

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Flyers top 10 Worst Contracts past decade:

 

I mean, JVR needs to be on the list alongside Hayes.

 

Ristolainen is going to make a serious case.

 

7 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

4) Dale Weise. Hextall signed Weise to a four-year, 9.4 million dollar on the first day of the 2016 Free Agency period.  Seriously a 4th line bottom dweller here ....... just shoot me now.

 

Shirley, there's no harm in signing fourth liners to multi-year deals at more than twice as much as they've ever made before!

 

Seriously forgot about this guy. And this team. Talk about three just lost years wandering in the desert, surrounded by more lost years of wandering in the desert.

 

And we're not even in Arizona...

 

 

 

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

I mean, JVR needs to be on the list alongside Hayes.

 

How dare I forget those two illustrious examples!  I need to have my posting right taken away! LOL

 

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

Ristolainen is going to make a serious case.

 

I think when all is said and done he will slide into #2 right behind the great Russian Bear.  It is such a horrible contract on so many levels.

[radoran]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

the great Russian Bear.

 

You know, I didn't mind the concept of signing Bryzgalov - it was the term and the cost that were just midbogling.

 

The hallmark for the Flyers in the Holmgren Malaise is overpaying on overlength contracts.

 

Always have. Always will.

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

The hallmark for the Flyers in the Holmgren Malaise is overpaying on overlength contracts.

 

Always have. Always will.

 

Agree on all points .....this has been the Flyers M.O. for years and sadly I don't see any changes in the immediate future.

[GrittyForever]

7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

That doesn't mean he thought it was paramount to have a top tier goalie.

 

I started watching around 1991 and they never had a top goalie. They had backup types hammered into the starting roles.

 

 

We differ here. I thought he was just ok at best.

 

Never was overly impressed with him.

 

I don't care how he use to look in the 80's.

 

In my opinion besides being a one line team and Brindy the goalies Ron and Snow was a main reason they got swept by the Wings.

 

And the best goalie they got till Steve Mason was a Lunatic but stopped the puck and imploded in the playoffs.

 

They had maybe a good one in Bob but they ran him off for Bryz and we know how that ended up.

 

Fast forward till now they have a young stud they are ruining because they don't know how to even groom a great goalie.

 

So yeah they underestimated how important a goalie can be till Marty bitch slapped them in my mind.

 

 

 

idk, I think everybody realized they wouldn't have won the cup twice without Bernie Parent, even Snider. You'd have to be pretty clueless not to get that. 

We differ on Hextall. He wasn't the best in the league, but he was top 10 in his prime and definitely better than what we've had since. Team rode him too long though and didn't groom a successor who could have taken the role earlier. Bob and Bryz we agree on, definite blunders. And yes, I think everybody who understand hockey felt we were rushing Hart and possibly ruining him. Wasn't that part of why Hextall was fired? He didn't want to rush Hart? Conflicting stories on that but there might be something to it. However it played out for real, it was a mistake. 

[GrittyForever]

4 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Couple of things, at the time Bobs was thought to need some more developing- but then Laviolette ,who's blind spot has always been in goal, was forced to play him in more games than anyone wanted. Then, Bobrovsky's contract could no longer slide. He would have absolutely been claimed off waivers the next season and the team didn't feel comfortable turning even the backup role over to him.

The season where he played too many games happened to be the best regular season the Richards era saw, so it was thought the Flyers were contenders. That was some complicated collective bargaining ******** going on that a lot of dummies ****ed up.  And after all that- you're right. They had a guy and chased the wrong guy (we didn't know about the bear thing yet) and the circle of the drain began. I think they're still paying Bryzgalov to not play for them.

Oh I remember. Bob looked pretty shaky at times and was inconsistent. He definitely wasn't what he became yet. The thing was Columbus obviously scouted him and saw his potential and for whatever reason our management couldn't make that assessment. The faults run right through the entire organization and all the people they hire. Bad scouting, bad coaching, bad assessments, bad drafting, bad player development, bad trades. A comedy of errors that accumulate and slowly gut the entire thing. 

[vis]

18 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Seemed like the Flyers never thought having a solid goalie was a big deal.

 

Till the year Snider watched Marty B bounce their asses in the playoffs and then insisted they need a stud goalie and well they effed up and thought that guy was Bryz.

 

Strangest thing about that is how many years did Snider watch Marty steal game after game and take his team to 3 Cups winning 3 before he realized this was a missing piece??

 

Only to then choose so badly on who that guy was he would sell the ranch for...

 

 

 

And well before that, they signed Vanbiesbrouck over Joseph.  Never understood that.

 

And, yes, failure to address goaltending was their major undoing for many years.  Mystifying after watching Bernie and then Pelle star for them.

[pilldoc]

8 minutes ago, vis said:

 

And, yes, failure to address goaltending was their major undoing for many years.  Mystifying after watching Bernie and then Pelle star for them.

 

36 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Oh I remember. Bob looked pretty shaky at times and was inconsistent. He definitely wasn't what he became yet. The thing was Columbus obviously scouted him and saw his potential and for whatever reason our management couldn't make that assessment. The faults run right through the entire organization and all the people they hire. Bad scouting, bad coaching, bad assessments, bad drafting, bad player development, bad trades. A comedy of errors that accumulate and slowly gut the entire thing

 

41 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Team rode him too long though and didn't groom a successor who could have taken the role earlier. Bob and Bryz we agree on, definite blunders. And yes, I think everybody who understand hockey felt we were rushing Hart and possibly ruining him. Wasn't that part of why Hextall was fired? He didn't want to rush Hart? Conflicting stories on that but there might be something to it. However it played out for real, it was a mistake.

 

 

As Cher used to sing ..... "If we could turn back time ..........."  And hide the keys from a certain someone's Porsche.  (sigh)

 

 

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

The thing was Columbus obviously scouted him and saw his potential and for whatever reason our management couldn't make that assessment.

I really don't think that was the case. He was scouted by the Flyers and brought to North America by the Flyers. I don't think they did all that, got a load of him on North American ice and were like, nope. It wasn't like the team soured on Bobrovsky or "didn't know what they had", they did. The whole league did. 

They ****ed up monitoring his contract, and managed his games played like they were passed out from a weekend bender.

 

Bobs wasn't ready to be even a #2 at that time- he needed to have 30 games in LHV at least...but he couldn't be called up without being exposed to waivers. There was no question a team would put in a claim for him. He played too many NHL games to qualify for a 2 way deal. 

Then they signed the cosmonaut for a billion years meaning Bob was always going to be his back-up... Bryz wasn't signing that contract to compete for the net. 

They did Bobrovsky a solid by trading him so he could compete for a starting job. 

He wasn't going to get that in Philly.

 

The front office blew that situation terribly and the people responsible (senior advisors)  haven't gotten a whole lot right since. 

 

 

[pilldoc]

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The front office blew that situation terribly and the people responsible (senior advisors)  haven't gotten a whole lot right since. 

 

The reoccurring theme over and over and over ..........

 

and folks that is how you ruin/destroy a once proud team/franchise.

 

Its so easy to figure even a caveman can figure it out ........

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by pilldoc

[CoachX]

11 hours ago, pilldoc said:

Flyers top Worst Contracts past decade:

 

1) Ilya Bryzgalov. After trading Jeff Carter and Mike Richards to L.A., the Flyers signed the 6’3, 216-pound net-minder to a whopping nine-year, 51 million dollar.  And we are still paying for it.

 

2) Andrew MacDonald.  comes in at number two. Holmgren traded for MacDonald’s services in exchange for Matt Mangene and a second and third-round pick at the 2014 Trade Deadline (SMH) and subsequently extended him for six years and 30 million dollars a month later.  It was a mind-numbing signing at the time, and hamstrung the organization for five years. Being overused by coach Dave Hakstol and dominated by all competition across the league, MacDonald was a disaster for the Flyers until he was finally, mercifully, bought out by Chuck Fletcher in the summer of 2019.

 

3) Vincent Lecavalier. If you don’t recall, the Tampa Bay Lightning bought out the 1998 First Overall Selection during the 2013 offseason, and the Flyers swooped in and inked him to a five-year, 22.5 million contract about a weeks later. For whatever reason, Holmgren thought it’d be a tremendous idea to give, at the time, a 33-year-old centerman who was increasingly missing time due to injury a five-year deal. I mean, nobody could’ve seen this contract going awry, not a single soul. 

 

4) Dale Weise. Hextall signed Weise to a four-year, 9.4 million dollar on the first day of the 2016 Free Agency period.  Seriously a 4th line bottom dweller here ....... just shoot me now.

 

5 Chris Pronger.  No one foresaw how his career was going to end, but come one he was 35 when he signed his extension.  A seven-year extension to boot in the summer of 2010. Since he was over 35 when he signed the contract, the Flyers were on the hook for his $4.9 million cap hit if he retired before the contract ended. Well, that’s exactly what happened. Pronger’s playing career came to an end in early 2011 and the Flyers were responsible for five more years of his contract. He was on the books until the summer of 2015 when his contract was traded to the Yotes in the desert.

 

6) Matt Read. Signed as a free agent out of college, Matt Read may be one of the biggest one-hit wonders in recent Flyers history. After bursting onto the scene in 2011-12, he scored 24 goals and 47 points. Two seasons later he’d hit the 20-goal, 40-point mark again and was rewarded with a four-year $14.5 million contract. Immediately after signing his new deal he just about disappeared completely. Scoring just 31 goals and 77 points over the next four seasons, he just couldn’t live up to the contract, eventually finding himself in the AHL.

 

That is some list ........   bottom line, this team just does not learn from its past mistakes and history.

 

It's really simple to understand.  Ed Snider made a pact with Satan and cup the Bullies and 2 cups. As penance the franchise is forced to pay for it for the rest of eternity 

 

Somewhere I hear Steve Vai cutting heads with some mean licks on his axe

[radoran]

47 minutes ago, CoachX said:

It's really simple to understand.  Ed Snider made a pact with Satan and cup the Bullies and 2 cups. As penance the franchise is forced to pay for it for the rest of eternity 

 

Somewhere I hear Steve Vai cutting heads with some mean licks on his axe

 

Have you met Jeff Lurie?

 

[GrittyForever]

3 hours ago, CoachX said:

It's really simple to understand.  Ed Snider made a pact with Satan and cup the Bullies and 2 cups. As penance the franchise is forced to pay for it for the rest of eternity 

 

Somewhere I hear Steve Vai cutting heads with some mean licks on his axe

It all links to Holmgren. It's been said many times how he must have blackmail photos or something. There is no logical or explicable reason why Holmgren got a job, kept a job, got promoted in his job and still has a job. 

 

You want to start fixing this franchise, start with nixing Holmgren. 

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

There is no logical or explicable reason why Holmgren got a job, kept a job, got promoted in his job and still has a job. 

 

Yes there is.

 

You don't have to like it or agree with it but I am sure it is the feather in his hat that flaunts to management every chance he gets.

 

And more and likely the reason they let him continue with his plan.

 

After they had the worst season in the NHL the year they got robbed of Kane he quickly retool the team got them back into playoff contention and in around 3 years had them within 2 wins of hoisting the Stanely Cup - despite all the injuries with a journeyman backup and an AHL goalie.

 

That till this day is the deepest they have been - that feather flaps in the wind in his cap.

 

In my mind that is the only reason they listen to his nonsense and why they let him continue to retool on the fly and get them there again.

 

Because it happened one time and I'm sure he says that had Emery not had an injury they would have had their 3rd Cup.

 

As I said you don't have to like it or agree with it but i am sure that is his selling point.

 

And well here we are 12 years later trying to push the rock up the hill...Sisyphus!!!

 

 

 

[CoachX]

8 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Have you met Jeff Lurie?

 

Easy now  

 

Back away from the Eagles....at least until the first drive of the season

[OccamsRazor]

Another forward signed...

 

 

[RonJeremy]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:35 AM, radoran said:

https://www.mapleleafsinsider.com/31-year-old-veteran-blueliner-may-be-forced-to-retire-144194?fbclid=IwAR1UEqHbog9CQKzcc9ImaYjXe3jwpnswHXSwBq9icsambqiHYLzWVXYPYHI

 

 

He will always be remembered as a career 1.25 ppg Flyer.

 

If this pans out, it seems pretty clear that the organization had no interest in Gaudreau. How that looks depends on your perspective.

 

Four more seasons after this one on the contract...

This is actually good news. We won’t be stuck with a broken down player and his five million dollar contract for five more years. It will also help us to get a top five draft pick . We are gonna suck anyway, we may as well suck completely.

[GrittyForever]

8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes there is.

 

You don't have to like it or agree with it but I am sure it is the feather in his hat that flaunts to management every chance he gets.

 

And more and likely the reason they let him continue with his plan.

 

After they had the worst season in the NHL the year they got robbed of Kane he quickly retool the team got them back into playoff contention and in around 3 years had them within 2 wins of hoisting the Stanely Cup - despite all the injuries with a journeyman backup and an AHL goalie.

 

That till this day is the deepest they have been - that feather flaps in the wind in his cap.

 

In my mind that is the only reason they listen to his nonsense and why they let him continue to retool on the fly and get them there again.

 

Because it happened one time and I'm sure he says that had Emery not had an injury they would have had their 3rd Cup.

 

As I said you don't have to like it or agree with it but i am sure that is his selling point.

 

And well here we are 12 years later trying to push the rock up the hill...Sisyphus!!!

 

 

 

I don't buy that at all. Richards and Carter were drafted by Clarke not Holmgren. What great moves did Holmgren make? he was just there at the right time when a bunch of young guys came into their own and then he preceded to toss that all away in a hurry. He's garbage.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

I don't buy that at

 

Apparently you missed the first sentence.

 

He brought in Briere, Pronger, Carle,Hartnell, Leino,Timonen, Emery, Powe, Betts, Asham and Lappy.

 

And I can't remember if he brought in Coburn too.

 

And I maybe forgetting someone.

 

WTF were you sleep at the wheel or something the dude built that team.

 

They came 2 games from winning it all.

 

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

he was just there at the right time

 

 

Just paint it however you like the picture to be then...

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by pilldoc

[GrittyForever]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Apparently you missed the first sentence.

 

He brought in Briere, Pronger, Carle,Hartnell, Leino,Timonen, Emery, Powe, Betts, Asham and Lappy.

 

And I can't remember if he brought in Coburn too.

 

And I maybe forgetting someone.

 

WTF were you sleep at the wheel or something the dude built that team.

 

They came 2 games from winning it all.

 

 

 

Just paint it however you like the picture to be then...

 

Holmgren got blackmail photos on you too????????????????????????

 

Ville Leino. Listing him throws your whole argument into the toilet. Sabres fans are afraid of any prospect named "Ville". I think they're still paying for that . 

So I guess NOT re-signing Leino is something I can credit Holmgren with 

Edited July 29, 2022 by pilldoc

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Listing him throws your whole argument into the toilet.

 

I'm not following what you are saying about him.

 

In 19 games he put up 7 goals for 21 points in that playoff run.

 

The line of Briere Hartnell and Leino was one of the most productive lines in the playoffs that year.

 

I don't care about what happened to him with the Sabres many flame out in Buffalo.

 

All I was laying out was why the front office more likely believes in his plan because of his success in that retool which lead to the Stanley Cup appearance.

 

And you just want to act like it never happened.

 

Imagine if Emery doesn't get hurt and Holmgren could've been a hero.

 

He was close. And since then well he has not duplicated that since.

 

Still doesn't prevent him from bringing up to Scott every chance he gets.

 

Despite all the mistakes he made since.

 

[GrittyForever]

8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I'm not following what you are saying about him.

 

In 19 games he put up 7 goals for 21 points in that playoff run.

 

The line of Briere Hartnell and Leino was one of the most productive lines in the playoffs that year.

 

I don't care about what happened to him with the Sabres many flame out in Buffalo.

 

All I was laying out was why the front office more likely believes in his plan because of his success in that retool which lead to the Stanley Cup appearance.

 

And you just want to act like it never happened.

 

Imagine if Emery doesn't get hurt and Holmgren could've been a hero.

 

He was close. And since then well he has not duplicated that since.

 

Still doesn't prevent him from bringing up to Scott every chance he gets.

 

Despite all the mistakes he made since.

 

That's just it though isn't it? Believing that Holmgren didn't just have one lucky year but that he actually has some type of special knowledge and wisdom and so just listen to him and do it again, it's just that easy. But it isn't. and yet they all (and you apparently) keep thinking it'll work again and they forget all the dumb moves Holmgren made after like Bryz . 

A guy like Leino is a perfect example of how that was just one lucky year where a number of things came together. In truth the guy was lazy garbage and he just had one brief run because of the players around him and a little contract year motivation. Mostly Carter and Richards coming into their own is what took us there along with Briere and a young Claude. You want to credit Holmgren with some sort of magic there go ahead, but I'm not on that bandwagon. I think he's a complete moron and needs to go like yesterday.