Carey Price to miss season career in jeopardy..(poll) is he a hall of famer?

[yave1964]

Canadiens GM Kent Hughes has made it clear that his season is over before it starts and the whispers are getting louder that he will never play again 

"I've mentioned before that we were kind of in a gray area with Carey in terms of knowing whether he'd be able to play or not, and unfortunately it's not a determination that we can make," Hughes said. "We had to let time take its course. At this point in time, the news in terms of Carey's knee is pretty discouraging in the sense that there hasn't been any improvement."

  His knee surgery appears to have been much less than succesful and it is looking like we have possibly seen the last of him, leaving Jake Allen and Cayden Primeau to run the net.

 

  At this point, based off what he has done at this point in his career, is he a Hall Of Famer? I am going to present the case both for and against below...

 

FOR He led the league in wins twice, in goals against once. He is one of less than a handful of goalies to win both the Vezina and Hart in the same season which he did during his brilliant 2014-15 season. He is 21st in the NHL in career wins. He appeared in six All Star games. He was drafted in the first round 5th overall and is considered by many to be the best goalie of his generation.

 

AGAINST He had one absolutely brilliant season in 14-15, but it is the only time in his career he was a first or second team all star. Yes he had that amazing season but he had many others like 13-20-5, 26-28-11, 16-26-7, 25-25-12, and 27-27-6. He made the Stanley Cup finals once during a rather fluky run for the Habs during the covid year but overall he had a well deserved rep for failing badly in the playoffs.

 

  Looking at his ten most comparable comps on hockey reference you get guys like Rinne who will almost certainly walk into the hall and is a direct contemporary, you have Rogie Vachon who was one of the dippiest selections for the hall in league history and HOFer Johnny Bower. But the list is mostly made up of solid but certainly not greats such as CuJo, Vokoun, Ryan Miller, Ollie the goalie, Kari Lehtonen, and Evgeni Nabokov. This list hurts much, much more than it helps.

 

  So if his career is indeed over, do you put him in or leave hi on the outside?

Edited August 21, 2022 by yave1964

[yave1964]

My opinion is that Price comes up short, I feel he was annointed the chosen one and had the look and charisma of a matinee idol but that is not what gets you in the Hall. His numbers were good, not great, in fact if you take out his one absolutely brilliant season his career record drops to 317-245-73. Adjusting those 73 OT losses and calling them what they truly are, losses, he went 317-318.

 

  Yes it is true that for much of his career he played for some bad Habs teams but a great goalie elevates his team with his play. I dont see any reason to look at his numbers and feel that he did that. Other that his great year he was only top three in the Vezina one other time in his fifteen year career.

 

  So I dont see him as a hall of famer but I think he will eventually get in.  The people who vote for such things are the same folks who annointed him coming out of Juniors and continued to speal highly of him for most of his career. They would rather do another wrong rather than admit to being wrong in the first place.

 

  So does he make the Hall? Sigh, yeah, he probably gets in. Does he deserve it? No. A hard hell no. Nothing about his middling good career with one great year in the mix speaks Hall of Fame. 

[ruxpin]

My answer is a hard "no."  He really shouldn't even be in the conversation.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, yave1964 said:

My opinion is that Price comes up short

 

 

This. In a nut shell.

[thegx.ca]

Price is my favorite goalie because of his potential since he has accomplished alot...but that's not enough to justify Hall of Fame status...

 

For me Hall of Fame has to be mainly about:

 

-Longevity

-Record Book Numbers(entries)

-Cups

 

So a healthy Price I'll always choose first for the Olympics and as first goalie of any team fantasy draft etc...but not for Hall of Fame yet...

[ruxpin]

16 hours ago, Villella McMeans said:

Price is my favorite goalie because of his potential since he has accomplished alot...but that's not enough to justify Hall of Fame status...

 

For me Hall of Fame has to be mainly about:

 

-Longevity

-Record Book Numbers(entries)

-Cups

 

So a healthy Price I'll always choose first for the Olympics and as first goalie of any team fantasy draft etc...but not for Hall of Fame yet...

Agree with every word of this.  Good take, as usual.

[thegx.ca]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Agree with every word of this.  Good take, as usual.

Thanks man...I hope Price can recoverv and get healthy but Montreal has no window of opportunity anymore...wonder if he'll want a trade after getting better...

[ruxpin]

Here's another question regarding Price:

 

Does he even make the Habs hall of fame?   Any other franchise, it's quite likely.  But given the history of Montreal and the players that have come through there and the hundreds of players that have hoisted a Cup, what's the argument for Price?  If the Habs pull off the upset over Tampa in 2021 I think it's a different conversation.

 

But as is, does he make the Habs Hall?

[pilldoc]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

But as is, does he make the Habs Hall?

 

No ...... end of story.  You answered your own question.  Due to it being the Habs and their successful history, I would say no.

[JR Ewing]

I'll bring in Bill James' Keltner List, which I've been using for decades now. My gut answer was a "no"  but I wanted to see where the list took me. I still say "no" but I think it's a little bit closer than some here indicate. I could have sworn I was reading about "Red Light" Racicot and not a guy with a Hart and a Vezina on his shelf.

 

1. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player in hockey while he played?
No

 

2. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player at his position while he played?
At his peak, he won a Vezina, and he was generally considered among the best goaltenders. Did many people think he was the best goaltender in the NHL? I don't think so.
 
3. Was he ever among the top 10 leaders in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc)
Yes (1)

 

4. Did the player ever lead the league in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc)
Yes. Wins twice, GAA once, SV% once. (2)
 
5. Did he ever have an impact on a deep playoff run?
Yes, in 2021. (3)

 

6. Was he a key member of a Stanley Cup winner?
No

 

7. Was he ever a team Captain?
This is hard for a goalie, but it's still a "non".

 

8. Was he ever team Captain of a Stanley Cup winner?
No

 

9. Did many regard him to be an excellent defensive player?
For goaltenders, I look at their ability to cut off pucks, be the 3rd defenseman, etc. That's a "no" for Price.

 

10. Did many regard his physical play/hitting to be an intimidating factor? (NOTE: We're not looking for pests here)
No, and goalies CAN get points here. Ask anybody who stood around in front of Ron Hextall or Billy Smith.

 

11. Did he play a lot/well after he passed his prime?
Other than the 2021 playoffs, injuries have essentially cut off his career.

 

12. Was he ever elected to the 1st or 2nd All-Star team?
Yes, 1st AS in 2015 (4)

 

13. Are many any other players with similar statistics in the HHOF?
Looking at his career, of the 10 most statistically similar players, 2 are in the HHOF. No.
 
14. Did he win a Hart, Lindsay, Norris or Vezina Trophy? (NOTE for goalies: prior to 1982, use 1st All-Star selections)
Yes, he won the Hart, Vezina and Pearson in 2015. (5)

 

15. Did he win a Conn Smythe Trophy? (pre-1965: see resources)
No

 

16. Is there any evidence to suggest (due to circumstances beyond his control) that he was significantly better than is indicated by his statistics? (NOTE: We're looking for things like time missed due to global conflict, world politics, league wars, etc... NOT INJURY!)
No

 

17. Did the player bring bring positive and intense focus on the game of hockey?
The Wayne Gretzky/Babe Ruth question. Almost impossible to get a point here. No.

 

18. Was the player innovative, inspire a new style of play, or cause the league to change any of its rules as a result of the way he played?
No, but almost nobody ever gets a point on this one, either.

 

The scale which I've been using for many years:
 
13+ = Best of the best
11-12 = Unquestioned HOFer
9-10 = Great player
7-8 = Belongs in HOF
--------------------
5-6 = Borderline
3-4 = Weak Argument
1-2 = Completely Unqualified

 

Carey Price: 5

 

Borderline, but he wouldn't get my vote.

[thegx.ca]

7 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

I'll bring in Bill James' Keltner List, which I've been using for decades now. My gut answer was a "no"  but I wanted to see where the list took me. I still say "no" but I think it's a little bit closer than some here indicate. I could have sworn I was reading about "Red Light" Racicot and not a guy with a Hart and a Vezina on his shelf.

 

1. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player in hockey while he played?
No

 

2. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player at his position while he played?
At his peak, he won a Vezina, and he was generally considered among the best goaltenders. Did many people think he was the best goaltender in the NHL? I don't think so.
 
3. Was he ever among the top 10 leaders in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc)
Yes (1)

 

4. Did the player ever lead the league in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc)
Yes. Wins twice, GAA once, SV% once. (2)
 
5. Did he ever have an impact on a deep playoff run?
Yes, in 2021. (3)

 

6. Was he a key member of a Stanley Cup winner?
No

 

7. Was he ever a team Captain?
This is hard for a goalie, but it's still a "non".

 

8. Was he ever team Captain of a Stanley Cup winner?
No

 

9. Did many regard him to be an excellent defensive player?
For goaltenders, I look at their ability to cut off pucks, be the 3rd defenseman, etc. That's a "no" for Price.

 

10. Did many regard his physical play/hitting to be an intimidating factor? (NOTE: We're not looking for pests here)
No, and goalies CAN get points here. Ask anybody who stood around in front of Ron Hextall or Billy Smith.

 

11. Did he play a lot/well after he passed his prime?
Other than the 2021 playoffs, injuries have essentially cut off his career.

 

12. Was he ever elected to the 1st or 2nd All-Star team?
Yes, 1st AS in 2015 (4)

 

13. Are many any other players with similar statistics in the HHOF?
Looking at his career, of the 10 most statistically similar players, 2 are in the HHOF. No.
 
14. Did he win a Hart, Lindsay, Norris or Vezina Trophy? (NOTE for goalies: prior to 1982, use 1st All-Star selections)
Yes, he won the Hart, Vezina and Pearson in 2015. (5)

 

15. Did he win a Conn Smythe Trophy? (pre-1965: see resources)
No

 

16. Is there any evidence to suggest (due to circumstances beyond his control) that he was significantly better than is indicated by his statistics? (NOTE: We're looking for things like time missed due to global conflict, world politics, league wars, etc... NOT INJURY!)
No

 

17. Did the player bring bring positive and intense focus on the game of hockey?
The Wayne Gretzky/Babe Ruth question. Almost impossible to get a point here. No.

 

18. Was the player innovative, inspire a new style of play, or cause the league to change any of its rules as a result of the way he played?
No, but almost nobody ever gets a point on this one, either.

 

The scale which I've been using for many years:
 
13+ = Best of the best
11-12 = Unquestioned HOFer
9-10 = Great player
7-8 = Belongs in HOF
--------------------
5-6 = Borderline
3-4 = Weak Argument
1-2 = Completely Unqualified

 

Carey Price: 5

 

Borderline, but he wouldn't get my vote.

#18 is a Wayne Gretzky question too

[Brewin Flames]

Solid, not spectacular ='s no.

 

I always liked him, and it's hard to like a player on the habs, and always thought he deserved better.

[NHL HHOF]