mkscrewy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I can agree with that. I guess I'm still annoyed at having to sit through their insufferable broadcast for three hours last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmdodgesrt4 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Yes. Those penaltys were the refs way of getting the game under control. I am still disgusted today. I miss sestito. He would have laid someone out and dealt with the benching or suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xganarchy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think the NHL's decision making process is a joke. I said in chat last night that Rinaldo would have been executed and Giroux suspended as a penalty to the Flyers if Rinaldo had made that same hit.I do think "Kronwall as a Flyer" would get different discipline than "Kronwall as a Wing"That doesn't mean I want that hit taken out of that game."Could" Kronwall have "let up" on that hit? Probably. Do you train your defensemen to "let up" on hits?Because I don't know of any NHL coaches that do.fair enough, I'm with you on that. When they started cracking down on these "shots to the head", i was up in arms. I still think players need to keep their heads up and with all the penalties/suspensions, the NHL is essentially rewarding players who aren't taking care of themselves. I definitely agree with you there. My main problem is, even though they're "cracking down" on concussion causing hits, the Flyers aren't getting the same protection as most other teams are. OR you also have certain teams/players who always seem to avoid discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 was looking back at some of the other decisions this season, and in fairness, Shanahan used the same logic to not suspend Malone for his hit on campoli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearOnIce Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Clear shot to the head on a player in a defenseless position. If he doesn't get suspended, it's a travesty.I'm all for good hits and I like the way Kronwall plays. I know Voracek was looking down. But the hit was direct to the head, no doubt.How the hell was it not a penalty?Very clean hit. Very good hit. Textbook except that Kromwell got the head too. Probably a couple game suspension. Jake looked like he was praying or something after that hit. Objective lesson: Don't be looking down and admiring the puck on your stick. Ouch. Hope Jake is back in time for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 @aziz - hey man, I gotta hand it to you. We don't always agree on everything, but you do your research. Me, I mostly make stuff up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Exactly exact. Plus, giving up a 2-on-1in the process. Flyers fans would have been thrilled. Babcock, not so much.I also like the point @canoli makes:It's rather like arguing that when a player is laying on the ice, is hit in the face with a stick, it should be high-stickingreminds me of one of the funniest parts of 'GOON' ******queue possible spoiler alert*******as he's lying across the goal crease and the guys trying to stuff the puck through his face over and over... hysterical lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terp Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 was looking back at some of the other decisions this season, and in fairness, Shanahan used the same logic to not suspend Malone for his hit on campoli.Did you do a news search or can this all be found in one spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krasy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Rinaldo clearly left his feet in making the hit. Kronwall didn't. There's no real gray area there.You must be joking, right?Then what about Kronwall hit on Briere?Does he left his feet?Does he get suspended?Does this hit even was reviewed?There is Double standard and everybody knows that. Edited March 7, 2012 by krasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertaflyer Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 How do you know that Kronwall "targeted" the head? When you prepare to hit a guy who is skating towards you, with the puck, and he puts his head down, why is that "targeting" the head? The rules clearly state that not all contact to the head is illegal. They are allowing for clean hits where the guy getting hit puts himself in a vulnerable position, at the last second. If Voracek keeps his head up, he doesn't get hit in the head. If the league wants to make all contact to the head a punishable offense, then it will have to just go ahead and outlaw all contact.From my experience I knew when I had an opposing player in a bad position. I looked for those type of hits when I was younger. I'm telling you Kronwall KNEW he was going to get him in the head. You can see right before impact he's looking right at his head. As quick as it happens you DO have an opportunity to pull back. Vorachek did put himself in a bad position but there is some onus on the Kronwall was well. I have no problem with the hit. It's not answering the bell afterwards that I have a problem with. If you are going to do those constantly you have to be ready to drop the gloves once and while. Down the road I can so see a Domi, Ulf Samulson incident with Kronwall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terp Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 @albertaflyerI had a problem with the hit but that's well documented. Like you, I was also troubled by Kronwall's unwillingness to drop the gloves. In short hand: I'm willing to target your head but I'm not willing to submit myself to the players' justice system. Because of that, the incident isn't over. I disagree with some posters who think because he's a defenseman he's more difficult to get even with him. To the contrary, they can dump the puck into his corner and ram his head through the glass.I think the Ulf analogy is a good one. I might not have thought so before last night but I see him now as a player who is out to injure other players and who turtles. You know how that goes: guys want to injure him now too. There are guys on a lot of teams who will want to settle accounts and it is going to happen at some point. When it happens, I hope it's bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 @albertaflyerI had a problem with the hit but that's well documented. Like you, I was also troubled by Kronwall's unwillingness to drop the gloves. In short hand: I'm willing to target your head but I'm not willing to submit myself to the players' justice system. Because of that, the incident isn't over. I disagree with some posters who think because he's a defenseman he's more difficult to get even with him. To the contrary, they can dump the puck into his corner and ram his head through the glass.I think the Ulf analogy is a good one. I might not have thought so before last night but I see him now as a player who is out to injure other players and who turtles. You know how that goes: guys want to injure him now too. There are guys on a lot of teams who will want to settle accounts and it is going to happen at some point. When it happens, I hope it's bad.Why does Kronwall have to drop the gloves unless it's an obvious cheap shot? Why does it seem like every time a player levels another with a "big hit" he is expected to answer for it by fighting? Unless it's a blatantly obvious cheap shot/intent to injure then Kronwall doesn't have to answer for anything in this game. I know the players don't have the advantage of seeing a replay of a hit during the game but still...if it is obvious enough (and this one wasn't) then by all means, have at him or criticize him if he doesn't answer the bell. If its not until after the game that it's clear a hit was cheap, get him next time. Players remember things like that. Fans (myself included) want to see more legal big hits. I don't want to see scrum after scrum or fight after pointless because you got me good (legally) so now I gotta get you back. That's not hockey and that's not the purpose fighting is meant to serve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terp Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 @B21I made clear in my post that I did in fact think it was a hit that deliberately targeted the head and was intended to injure. I believe that addresses your comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 @B21I made clear in my post that I did in fact think it was a hit that deliberately targeted the head and was intended to injure. I believe that addresses your comment.I know but do you really think this one was ** that ** obvious? If so, then my point is N/A to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted.He makes direct contact with the head. My point is you have to let up in that situation then. That is the rule. You don't take full advantage of Voracek's vulnerability in that situation. That is the proclaimed expectation in the NHL. You can still eliminate Voracek there without destroying him head first. This is the new NHL and that stuff is no longer SUPPOSED to be tolerated. However, as you can see it all depends on who you are and who you play for and who you're friends with. Lets all be honest. Its not like Kronwall had no choice but to deliver a full on shoulder to head blow following through with his entire momentum and elbow at the end on Voracek. It wasn't like he HAD to do that. Get real guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 My point is you have to let up in that situation then. That is the rule.What? Where does it say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 He knows what it is - "hockey."Its not like that anymore. It was beat into me and all other fans that the NHL has become a haven for players instead of a battleground. So peddle the "its hockey and its tough" stuff elsewhere. Its not like that anymore and the NHL wanted it that way. Now they won't consistently enforce it and the players are suffering. Jake keeps his head down because he thinks he can get away with it nowadays and Kronwall levels him because he's an ******* and he knows he can get away with it. You can't just say "its hockey keep your head up" anymore. That is not the NHL. Tomorrow someone else makes that exact same hit and they get 2 games for it. The rule states that it is illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 What? Where does it say that?Excuse me Pods. I didn't mean that the rule states you have to let up. The rule states that you can't make the head the targeted point of contact. The head was absolutely going to be the targeted point of contact to a player who was defenseless and still Kronwall went as hard as possible to level the full weight of the check intending to destroy Voracek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 My opinion is also that Kronwall had the intent to injure. I think he usually does as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Its not like that anymore. It was beat into me and all other fans that the NHL has become a haven for players instead of a battleground. So peddle the "its hockey and its tough" stuff elsewhere. Its not like that anymore and the NHL wanted it that way. Now they won't consistently enforce it and the players are suffering. Jake keeps his head down because he thinks he can get away with it nowadays and Kronwall levels him because he's an ******* and he knows he can get away with it.You can't just say "its hockey keep your head up" anymore. That is not the NHL. Tomorrow someone else makes that exact same hit and they get 2 games for it. The rule states that it is illegal.Show me where in the rule it says it is illegal. The full text has been posted at least twice in this thread. I italicized and bolded the relevant part that addresses this hit in an earlier post.The rule is written the way it is because that is a legal hockey hit.I thought so when it happened. I think so now. Rick Tocchet thinks so. Bill Clement thinks so. Brendan Shanahan thinks so. Claude Giroux thinks so. Jakub Voracek thinks so.I will ask again, what do you expect Kronwall to do in that situation? Voracek expects him to try to lay a solid hit on him - which is what happened.You want your dmen deciding "oh, maybe I'll take this hit a little softer"? 'cause I don't and I don't know that any NHL coach will have a job if he teaches that to his team.Kronwall put on a legal hit to a player who himself believes he was in the wrong. When he puts that hit on a guy, he knows it will hurt. In a sense *every* hit is "intent to injure" but there was nothing about that hit that in and of itself says "intent to injure" above and beyond the normal "intent" of your legal hockey hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Show me where in the rule it says it is illegal. The full text has been posted at least twice in this thread. I italicized and bolded the relevant part that addresses this hit in an earlier post.The rule is written the way it is because that is a legal hockey hit.I thought so when it happened. I think so now. Rick Tocchet thinks so. Bill Clement thinks so. Brendan Shanahan thinks so. Claude Giroux thinks so. Jakub Voracek thinks so.I will ask again, what do you expect Kronwall to do in that situation? Voracek expects him to try to lay a solid hit on him - which is what happened.You want your dmen deciding "oh, maybe I'll take this hit a little softer"? 'cause I don't and I don't know that any NHL coach will have a job if he teaches that to his team.Kronwall put on a legal hit to a player who himself believes he was in the wrong. When he puts that hit on a guy, he knows it will hurt. In a sense *every* hit is "intent to injure" but there was nothing about that hit that in and of itself says "intent to injure" above and beyond the normal "intent" of your legal hockey hit.I already answered your question Rad. I answered it twice. You still disagree. Ok. Fine.Its not a clean hit. He DID target the head. He DID hit Voracek in the head first while Voracek WAS defenseless. Voracek wasn't defenseless at the last second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
926 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 @Phillygrump, 55 lined him up and delivered his shoudler straight to the head, and his skates did leave the ice to finish off V, does that matter? Is that 'incidental' or is that another example of 'intent'?If it was such a clean hit, then why do people think other players would be given a penalty/suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 @926I love watching Red Wing fans justify Kronwall's hits and defend them. The guy should have been suspended several times in his career. I can't believe how protected he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I am a huge wings fan, love players like Kronwall and Pronger, Scott Stevens, Neidermayer, Konstantinov. If you come down the ice with your head down against these guys you are gonna be destroyed. Clean hit last night, the league agrees. Hope your boy is gonna be alright, hope he remembers to not have his chin on his chest admiring the puck on his stick next time. Good luck the rest of the way. Hope to see you in the finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
926 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 @Phillygrump - 55 hides his head blows better, and the word is it's legal. Torres got two games on Prosser for a targeted shoulder lead to the head and Shanny highlights how he leaves the ice to launch in. Kronwall targets the head with the back shoulder and leaves the ice to finish the hit after initial contact, similar to his Briere hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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