OccamsRazor Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Well I guess we can start this new thread to discuss hopefully something good maybe for a change. I can't say I know how this is going to go but as of now just happy Chuck is gone!!! FLYERS Danny Briere: Flyers’ Interim GM Says ‘Rebuild,’ Welcomes the Challenge https://phillyhockeynow.com/2023/03/12/philadelphia-flyers-danny-briere-interim-gm-welcomes-the-challenge-dave-scott-chuck-fletcher-general-manager-flahr-rebuild/ As always feel free to add your comments complaints whines all are welcome. And let's be clear I have no real set expectations except to get back to playing good team hockey and to strive for icing the best team they can on a nightly basis. Not even going to guess how much changes from now till the start of next season. My crystal ball is in the shop. The floor is yours! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 If Danny doesn't make but one move this offseason I can live with this one. Move Kevin Hayes. Identify he doesn't fit and move on. Do that and he will be in my good graces till he's not... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 28 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well I guess we can start this new thread to discuss hopefully something good maybe for a change. I can't say I know how this is going to go but as of now just happy Chuck is gone!!! FLYERS Danny Briere: Flyers’ Interim GM Says ‘Rebuild,’ Welcomes the Challenge https://phillyhockeynow.com/2023/03/12/philadelphia-flyers-danny-briere-interim-gm-welcomes-the-challenge-dave-scott-chuck-fletcher-general-manager-flahr-rebuild/ As always feel free to add your comments complaints whines all are welcome. And let's be clear I have no real set expectations except to get back to playing good team hockey and to strive for icing the best team they can on a nightly basis. Not even going to guess how much changes from now till the start of next season. My crystal ball is in the shop. The floor is yours! Briere is saying all of the right things, so lets see what happens. Will Briere get to do what he needs to do or will it be the same old thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Greetings: I was going to post this. Here is Briere's conference call. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7qE5uEbyWQ My takeaways: 1. He is humble and a good listener. 2. Brent Flahr is around through this draft. Briere had good things to say about him. That was surprising. 3. He punted on the Special Advisors...gave a fairly political answer on their depth of knowledge...blah. 4. Hilferty is clearly playing a significant role in operations. 5. He is committed to our youth. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Well he said "rebuild" so that's a good start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Moving Kevin Hayes doesn't signal it's a rebuild. Any sane GM would make that move. Moving players like Konecny, Provorov, Hart and Sanheim signals it's a rebuild. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 15 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: Moving Kevin Hayes doesn't signal it's a rebuild. Any sane GM would make that move. Moving players like Konecny, Provorov, Hart and Sanheim signals it's a rebuild. Baby steps brother. Baby steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 3 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: Moving players like Konecny, Provorov, Hart and Sanheim signals it's a rebuild. Why? To make it look sincere? That doesn't signal rebuild to me that signals stupidity unless there's a personality thing going on. If someone is not on board with the way things are going, fine, trade for an equally-good player for him and move on. But trading away good-to-excellent players for picks/prospects makes no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) @GratefulFlyers Maybe I can help a little. The Flyers good to excellent players are not the kind of players that winning teams would build around. Claude Giroux an excellent young player and very good older player, is not a core piece, he's not the ice cream in the sundae, he's the hot fudge. That guy is the best player the Flyers have had over the last 12 years. I liked him. There isn't a guy in @SCFlyguy's list other than maybe Hart who is even as good as late career Giroux. If Konecny (whom I really like) brings back an under 23-year-old blue chip prospect and a high draft pick, there is at least a chance that one of those assets becomes a better player than Travis. TK is coming into his peak years and he's not as good as Giroux was at his; so why would anyone expect to build a winning team around a player who is not as good as a proven non-winner? I think to be responsible the GM has to listen to offers for these in-their-peak-year guys. Listening to Daniel I don't think he wants to BITFU, I think he wants to have Cates, Tippett, Farabee and York around to build on. Guys with big paydays on the horizon have got be considered for trades if the Flyers are going to build a winning core. I don't think a winning core includes guys like Ivan Provorov @8.2 aav. or TK @7.8 aav. or whatever they'll make in the open market. Edited March 13 by mojo1917 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Back from vacation and having an internet connection again, I have just heard the news of Fletcher's firing. I'm sincerely happy for you Flyers fans, the day has finally come. There's still a very long and paved way but the direction is right. I'm sure Brière will be a significant upgrade despite his lack the experience at that level but he truly loves Philly and he cares a lot. I guess the interim tag will be removed at some point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomdog Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 As far as I could tell Carter Hart is the only player I wouldn’t give up on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: The Flyers good to excellent players are not the kind of players that winning teams would build around. Who said “build around?” Your objection is based on a premise I never advocated. TK, Hart and Provorov are plenty good enough to keep. Trading them in the hopes that your “23-year old blue chip prospect” will replicate their success is pointless. TK and Provorov are both 26, Hart is just 24. They are the player you’re hoping to land. I do agree with your point about Giroux. Avoiding a repetition of that mistake is crucial but I see no reason why they would. I can only guess that Giroux showed enough leadership and effectiveness on the ice to allow them to pretend they’d found another Crosby. Laviolette calling him “the best player in the world” fed that silly notion. There’s no one on the roster now like Giroux so I doubt they’ll indulge that fantasy again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 i have no reason to think Danny B won't do a good job. We all know and agree that the new president of HO and a total censure of the magpies will be essential to his success or failure. It's gonna be a slow process though, with the lack of draft capital and so so prospect pool. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: TK, Hart and Provorov are plenty good enough to keep. Trading them in the hopes that your “23-year old blue chip prospect” will replicate their success is pointless. TK and Provorov are both 26, Hart is just 24. They are the player you’re hoping to land. You would be correct if there were a bunch of other talented (i.e. more talented than TK, Hart and Provorov) players on the Flyers or about ready to join. But there aren't those players even in the system. By the time an 18 or 19 year old is 23 or 24 and maybe able to make a big difference on the big club, the 24-26 year olds are going to be 29-31 and making big dollars. Trading players while their value is high gives you more assets to find a truly great player and resets your clock when you think you might be able to compete. The only reason not to do this is if you want to fool your fanbase (or yourself) that this could be turned around in under 5 years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) @GratefulFlyers You're technically correct you didn't say you would "build around them". Inaction is choice as well. TK will be due for a new contract shortly, as will Provorov. They will command either long term or high .aav or both because they are good NHL players. If those guys receive a commitment from the team of 6 years @ 7.8.aav (hypothetically for TK) and 8 x 8.6. aav for Provorov they become your core. Where's the money to sign the better players needed to make the team championship level going to come from ? Do you think those guys are good enough players to be the core of a championship team? If you do great, we disagree and that's allowed. I think those guys are the hot fudge- on the championship sundae not the ice cream. They're going to want to be paid like they're two scoops of French Vanilla Bean. So, if the team is to rebuild, why not take the hit on guys you should be able to sign as UFAs or trade for and turn them into the assets used to build a better team ? To me that's preferrable to letting them walk in free agency and not utilizing whatever demand there may be for them when they're playing well and on decent contracts. Edited March 13 by mojo1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 2 hours ago, Tomdog said: As far as I could tell Carter Hart is the only player I wouldn’t give up on. Two guys on the current team with the most offensive potential are Tippet and Frost. Tippett has an incredible shot, drives the net and can be a 30 plus goal scorer. Frost has shown incredible puck handling skills good speed and has a great shot and playmaking ability. I'd keep those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Just a thought, but the higher the value of a player, the bigger the return if you move them. I guess you need to have a plan and stick with it, and if you think Hart, TK, Provorov etc are still going to be the core when the team is ready to compete then you have a hard decision to make. If you think the rebuild will take longer then you have to consider moving them. The current Flyer situation I believe says move them IF the return is right. The cap hell, the draft capital, the prospect pool all say this will take a while. When the playoffs end this year, there will be half a dozen teams looking to upgrade their goaltending. Maybe they can be fleeced with a Hart trade. That's just a for instance. You build a wall one brick at a time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 There's no one on the squad over the age of 25 that's going to be here "when it turns around". 44 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: they become your core. They are the core now. For the next two seasons, signed: Couturier, Atkinson, Konecny, Sanheim, Provorov, Ristolainen, Laughton, Deslauriers, Hayes, Farabee. That's ~$55M of cap space right there. Unless you move some of that out, there's not going to be significant room to move others in. To the earlier point, one of them is under 25. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Just now, flyer4ever said: if you think Hart, TK, Provorov etc are still going to be the core when the team is ready to compete then you have a hard decision to make. If you think the rebuild will take longer then you have to consider moving them. Bingo. That’s what @mojo1917 and I are hashing out. I agree a Flyers “turnaround” won’t happen in 1 or 2 seasons but it can happen in less than 5. TK and Hart have carved out respectable careers playing for bad teams, i.e. the Flyers of the past 4 years. Along with Provorov they’ve probably been hurt the most by the incompetent management and the unexpected bad breaks. But TK and Hart are too good to trade away to service the rebuild. Naturally when the time comes they’ll expect to be paid accordingly. TK is a special player. I’ve said it for awhile, I repeat it now: he can be the Flyers’ Marchand. He already is minus the point production and I believe to my soul he’s a 30+ goal scorer just waiting to happen. Hart - the Flyers spent decades with questionable goaltending and it cost them at least one Cup. We finally have goaltending. Don’t fk it up. Provorov’s a different story. His future is still a huge question mark. I’m referring strictly to his game on the ice. Right now he’s in no position to demand Pietrangelo money but if he has an excellent next season, where it’s clear to all he’s finally “arrived” an $8mil cap hit will be about right. 10 minutes ago, radoran said: There's no one on the squad over the age of 25 that's going to be here "when it turns around". I hope you’re wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 @radoran Interesting you didn't mention Ellis, in terms of salary cap obligations he's the core too. Not mentioned in my post and since you brought them up, I'll clarify. I was thinking some of the current salary cap committed core was going to be elsewhere or bought out. I'm thinking priority 1 for Daniel will be to eliminate some of these core pieces from the roster. Maybe some stay on the payroll until 2035 but they will not skate for the Flyers again. I don't envy Daniel one bit, the job he's so excited to take on is going to be hard. So many questions. WTF does he do with Couturier? That is just one of the no-win situations he's going be facing in the coming months. Ristolainen? Sanheim? how does one get out from under those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 12 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: I hope you’re wrong. I've been hoping to be wrong for 10+ years now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 17 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Interesting you didn't mention Ellis, in terms of salary cap obligations he's the core too. I forgot about Ellis and didn't scroll far enough down cap friendly.... 17 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I'm thinking priority 1 for Daniel will be to eliminate some of these core pieces from the roster. The Arizona Salary Dump exists. They could use a Cam Atkinson to fill up cap space for a few years. I'd honestly try to retain as much salary over a buyout, but I have not run specific numbers as they didn't get back to me before just going with the Good Ol' Boy. Sanheim is a Voracek level problem. A signing that didn't need to happen when it did that committed too much for too long to the wrong player. I wish I was wrong about that - then and now... Edited March 13 by radoran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Brière was on TVAS earlier and he really pronouced the word "reconstruction" plain and simple, without any detour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Well he does say rebuild, but he's also saying no tear down so idk. While I'm on board with the idea of moving out a number of these guys I don't think that'll be easy. The Risto and Hayes contracts have too much term on them for the price they are at (overpaid) so honestly, which GM is dumb enough to take them??? Konecny and Provorov might generate interest, but they aren't the players that really need to go. I honestly have no idea how Briere fixes this quickly with all the salary tied up on the ever injured and the term on the duds. If he can fix this quickly, he will be a miracle worker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 51 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: Well he does say rebuild, but he's also saying no tear down so idk. We're essentially back to where they were after Holmgren left them in the huge cap crunch. Briere is the new Hextall. I say flip Hart to Tronno for Matthews and make them take 50% of Hayes with him. Tronno gains $5M in cap space... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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