Game 73: Montreal Canadiens at Philadelphia Flyers; 3/28/23 @ 7 PM

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

The O and B are favored (-160):

https://www.docsports.com/free-picks/nhl-hockey/2023/montreal-canadiens-vs-philadelphia-flyers-prediction-3-28-2023-nhl-picks-best-bets-odds.html

 

There is little difference between the teams statistically.  Nick Suzuki is on a tear:

https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/mtl-vs-phi/2023/03/28/2022021177

 

Montreal has beaten us twice this season, scoring five goals each time.  Their speed gives us trouble. It will be interesting to see if the end-of-season Flyers do a better job.  

 

 

 

 

[GrittyForever]

I was looking at them playing the Sabres tonight and they won in a shoot out but didn't look overly impressive. With the kind of solid effort we've been seeing lately we should win this one. 

[OccamsRazor]

 

 

 

Going to be hard to out tank this team. Go with Sandstrom.

[OccamsRazor]

[flyercanuck]

26 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I can just see the fear in the opposition at having to face that 3rd line

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I can just see the fear in the opposition at having to face that 3rd line

 

That is the point.

 

Their tank game is rusty Shirley the Cup cake line should help.

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I can just see the fear in the opposition at having to face that 3rd line

 

Of course they win.

 

They have to right.

 

The Flyer way.

 

Paper Tigers.

[Howie58]

I caught the bookend periods.  It was a snoozer for the most part but Frost had his Wheaties.  I'm glad picked up a win.  

[GrittyForever]

Oh ya that was a stinker of a hockey game on both sides. Rest of this season will be painful to say the least. 

[tucson83]

8 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I caught the bookend periods.  It was a snoozer for the most part but Frost had his Wheaties.  I'm glad picked up a win.  

briere is going for offense hunting this summer just like torts wants it.

[RonJeremy]

23 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

briere is going for offense hunting this summer just like torts wants it.

The two most important needs going forward are a  young defensemen with top two potential and a young center with top two potential. If we can just stop winning we will have a shot at a high end center in the draft. The only way we get a high potential young dman is by trading Konecny. We have no legit top 2 dmen and I'm not counting on a 31 year old with a bad back as my top center, especially going forward. Even if Coots makes it back, he is slow and if he lost a step that will hinder his game. Either way, in a few years he becomes the new Hayes washed up, slow and overpaid.

 

Gauthier is staying in college, so he will join the Flyers next year after the college season. Still don't know if he's a left wing or center, but if we get a high end center in the draft,then we can move Gauthier to LW since that's a very weak spot for us. Frost is looking like he can be our # 2 center and Cates us a perfect #3 Center. 

[GratefulFlyers]

2 hours ago, tucson83 said:

briere is going for offense hunting this summer just like torts wants it.

 

I doubt Tortorella is clamoring for offense because offense is one thing the Flyers don't need. Yes they were goal-starved all year but that's beginning to turn around as the young forwards develop into NHL players. When the time comes the Flyers will know whether they'll need to trade for more offense. When the time comes ... we're a long way from that now.  

 

Meanwhile concentrate on the draft and on trading Kevin Hayes.

 

 

[RonJeremy]

4 hours ago, tucson83 said:

briere is going for offense hunting this summer just like torts wants it.

Our top young players and prospects are all forwards. Foerester, Tippett, Brink, Cates, Gauthier  and Frost. Going forward we actually need help on defense and center.  We will probably get a good center in the draft, the only way we get a top defenseman is by trading a guy like Konceny since right wing is our strongest position. We have no legit first pair defensemen,  without that you won't win anything no matter how much offense you have.

[CoachX]

11 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Oh ya that was a stinker of a hockey game on both sides. Rest of this season will be painful to say the least. 

avoid the pain, change the channel 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

the only way we get a top defenseman is by trading a guy like Konceny since right wing is our strongest position. We have no legit first pair defensemen, 

The good news is there’s no rush for the Flyers. They say they’re are engaged in a multi-year rebuild. Considering the changes in management (hopefully with more to come) I choose to believe them. I would keep TK, who is a uniquely talented player, as one of the cornerstones of the offense, while evaluating Provorov next season for the top dog position on D.
 

Evaluate a guy who’ve been with the team for 5+ years? Yes because so much has changed for the better recently that it must feel like a fresh start for many of the Flyers. It’s in everyone’s interest to see whether Provorov can be a “legit first pair defenseman.” In my humble opinion the jury is still out on that question.
 

Provorov’s an interesting case to me. I remember his rookie season well. I thought for sure the Flyers had found their #1 D-man. It hasn’t happened yet but maybe it still can. He’s not terribly expensive and he’s still young enough. I expect he will benefit in a big way from the changes the Flyers are making these days.

 

One last word on TK. It will be a huge mistake, on the level of a Patrick Sharp mistake, to trade him away. He brings so much more than his point production. Flyers’ fans appreciate him but maybe they think he’s easy enough to replace. He’s not. If the Flyers trade him they’ll regret it in the worst way. How many Cups did Sharp win with the ‘Hawks? More than the Flyers have ever won.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

The good news is there’s no rush for the Flyers. They say they’re are engaged in a multi-year rebuild. Considering the changes in management (hopefully with more to come) I choose to believe them. I would keep TK, who is a uniquely talented player, as one of the cornerstones of the offense, while evaluating Provorov next season for the top dog position on D.
 

Evaluate a guy who’ve been with the team for 5+ years? Yes because so much has changed for the better recently that it must feel like a fresh start for many of the Flyers. It’s in everyone’s interest to see whether Provorov can be a “legit first pair defenseman.” In my humble opinion the jury is still out on that question.
 

Provorov’s an interesting case to me. I remember his rookie season well. I thought for sure the Flyers had found their #1 D-man. It hasn’t happened yet but maybe it still can. He’s not terribly expensive and he’s still young enough. I expect he will benefit in a big way from the changes the Flyers are making these days.

 

One last word on TK. It will be a huge mistake, on the level of a Patrick Sharp mistake, to trade him away. He brings so much more than his point production. Flyers’ fans appreciate him but maybe they think he’s easy enough to replace. He’s not. If the Flyers trade him they’ll regret it in the worst way. How many Cups did Sharp win with the ‘Hawks? More than the Flyers have ever won.

The situation is this, TK is great but we have very skilled scoring right wings in Tippet, Foerester and Brink who are all young and on a cheap contract, that's basically four first or second line right wings that we have .TK will be 29 in two years and be looking for a big raise and long term deal. A rebuilding team should never give a 29 year old a big 7 year contract and that's exactly what TK will want.  Havent we learned anything from the Coots contract and from all the other failed big contracts to older players.

 

So a smart team trades from a strength to shore up a weak area and we are weak on defense, center and left wing. Making trades like this is how you expedite a rebuild you don't put guys like Brink and Foerester on the third and fourth line. The only shot we have at a good young dman with first pair potential is via trading TK. You are not getting a top young dman any other way. This years draft is all forwards,  so we have a shot at a good center or lw. Next year we will probably not pick in the bottom 10, so you are not gonna get an impact dman that way. Trading TK is your chance for a cornerstone defenseman. 

 

We are a team with solid #3-6 defenseman, Sanheim,York and Provorov are not top pair guys, Risto and Seeler are bottom pair guys, TDA is horrible. Provorov is also an UFA in two years his cap hit is 6.75 million, that's not exactly cheap.He has shown he is not a first pair defenseman, he had one good year and they have paired him with everyone and he has still regressed. I don't think he's happy in Philly and I don't think he will opt to stay with a bad team when he hits UFA. It's time to trade him. We cab package TK and Provy and get 3 good pieces back. 

 

P.S. The only chance Provy has at regaining his past glory is if you get a potential first line dman to pair with him and other than TK, there is no Flyers player of high value that can get us a top young dman.

Edited March 29, 2023 by RonJeremy

[CoachX]

Im not entirely disagreeing with you, but giving up a known commodity for a suspected one doesnt give me joy-joy feelings. Last season there was crazy hype about Allison, and the guy can't stay healthy. In my opinion the Flyers are horrible at assessing and developing talent. These young players are too much of a wild card for me to jettison TK

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

The good news is there’s no rush for the Flyers. They say they’re are engaged in a multi-year rebuild. Considering the changes in management (hopefully with more to come) I choose to believe them. I would keep TK, who is a uniquely talented player, as one of the cornerstones of the offense, while evaluating Provorov next season for the top dog position on D.
 

Evaluate a guy who’ve been with the team for 5+ years? Yes because so much has changed for the better recently that it must feel like a fresh start for many of the Flyers. It’s in everyone’s interest to see whether Provorov can be a “legit first pair defenseman.” In my humble opinion the jury is still out on that question.
 

Provorov’s an interesting case to me. I remember his rookie season well. I thought for sure the Flyers had found their #1 D-man. It hasn’t happened yet but maybe it still can. He’s not terribly expensive and he’s still young enough. I expect he will benefit in a big way from the changes the Flyers are making these days.

 

One last word on TK. It will be a huge mistake, on the level of a Patrick Sharp mistake, to trade him away. He brings so much more than his point production. Flyers’ fans appreciate him but maybe they think he’s easy enough to replace. He’s not. If the Flyers trade him they’ll regret it in the worst way. How many Cups did Sharp win with the ‘Hawks? More than the Flyers have ever won.

When we traded Sharp, Yeah it was a mistake but we had Carter, Richards and Forsberg at center so Sharp was an unproven guy and not getting ice time and he asked to be traded. This is a different scenario with TK, if we keep the older guy TK during a rebuild and give him a huge long term contract, guess what? That means we will have to dump Foerester or Brink because we will have TK and Tippett as the top two r wings. You will have the Sharpe scenario all-over again because Brink and Foerester are top two line players and we will trade them and keep TK and the in three years he will be a diminishing player with a high contract.  We are rebuilding,  if management faced that to begin with, we wouldn't be stuck with Coots, Ellis and Atkinson, three busted down players with huge long term contracts. 

[RonJeremy]

3 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Im not entirely disagreeing with you, but giving up a known commodity for a suspected one doesnt give me joy-joy feelings. Last season there was crazy hype about Allison, and the guy can't stay healthy. In my opinion the Flyers are horrible at assessing and developing talent. These young players are too much of a wild card for me to jettison TK

Just look at the natural skill level of Tippett and Foerster,  we haven't had guys that can shoot the puck like that in ages. That skill is not something you can teach. Allison is more of a Mike Knuble kinda guy great, shot good in the slot, he is a good third liner if he can stay healthy. TK has also been injured alot in his career. We are rebuilding right, no more retooling.  We are 5 yrs from being competitive, so how can we think giving TK seven million for seven years two seasons from now is a smart move.

[tucson83]

6 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

The two most important needs going forward are a  young defensemen with top two potential and a young center with top two potential. If we can just stop winning we will have a shot at a high end center in the draft. The only way we get a high potential young dman is by trading Konecny. We have no legit top 2 dmen and I'm not counting on a 31 year old with a bad back as my top center, especially going forward. Even if Coots makes it back, he is slow and if he lost a step that will hinder his game. Either way, in a few years he becomes the new Hayes washed up, slow and overpaid.

 

Gauthier is staying in college, so he will join the Flyers next year after the college season. Still don't know if he's a left wing or center, but if we get a high end center in the draft,then we can move Gauthier to LW since that's a very weak spot for us. Frost is looking like he can be our # 2 center and Cates us a perfect #3 Center. 

right and the only possible way for them to acquire a top end d man it has to be vet because those guys dont grow on trees and drafting for one will take longer to develop and it wont make sense since you have alot of youth on this team and you have carter hart eventually you have to speed the rebuild up because carter hart doesnt have 5 or 6 years to wait especially they are committed to keeping him.

 

whole point of rebuilding is to play youth and getting more cap money to spend when the stars become available either thru fa or trades or if we are lucky we land bedard

Edited March 29, 2023 by tucson83

[GrittyForever]

3 hours ago, CoachX said:

avoid the pain, change the channel 

I've kind of been half watching half doing other things. Letting them run as a background thing. If it gets interesting focus in more. Some of them I'm streaming in replay and speeding up parts. Haven't been fully engaged all year really. 

[GratefulFlyers]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

TK will be 29 in two years

actually he just turned 26 this month. The logjam at RW is real but I wouldn’t sacrifice TK to free it up. Other RWers will sink or swim within the next couple years and when the Flyers are back to a competitive team we’ll want TK then even if he is pushing 30. 
 

Also it’s just possible some of the forwards may be as effective playing the opposite side. Your post makes a lot of sense but I think you misjudge TK’s value. I agree almost nobody should get a 7 year contract particularly someone over 29 but you’re only assuming that’s what he’ll demand. If he does and he won’t budge that’s then he gets traded. But I’d bet if he’s played his entire career in Philly and sees that finally at long last the Flyers are for real he’ll want to stay.
 

Edited March 29, 2023 by GratefulFlyers

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Just look at the natural skill level of Tippett and Foerster,  we haven't had guys that can shoot the puck like that in ages. That skill is not something you can teach. Allison is more of a Mike Knuble kinda guy great, shot good in the slot, he is a good third liner if he can stay healthy. TK has also been injured alot in his career. We are rebuilding right, no more retooling.  We are 5 yrs from being competitive, so how can we think giving TK seven million for seven years two seasons from now is a smart move.

Sure, they look good. But this time last year, you and I were having a very healthy debate because you were expressing your opinion that Allison should be on the PP because of his shot, and that he should be getting top line minutes. A season later you have him slated a good third liner "IF".  My point isnt that you are/were wrong, but more that huge decisions shouldn't be made off a small sample size.

 

I don't disagree with your assessment that TK isnt worth 7 mil. Neither of us know that will be the price tag though. Its speculation, albeit based off a good logical conclusion. I honestly don't care if they trade TK, or any other player not named Hart. Im just not emotionally invested in this group of players. And trading him for young players is an obvious plan during a rebuild, assuming they have a plan. It just worries me that they might move a player on his way up, based on the assumption you have a suitable replacement in the system

 

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, GrittyForever said:

I've kind of been half watching half doing other things. Letting them run as a background thing. If it gets interesting focus in more. Some of them I'm streaming in replay and speeding up parts. Haven't been fully engaged all year really. 

ME TOO! Half of me hasn't been watching and the other half is doing ANYTHING else

[radoran]

3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

One last word on TK. It will be a huge mistake, on the level of a Patrick Sharp mistake, to trade him away.

 

TK is already the player Sharp turned into production-wise.

 

3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

He brings so much more than his point production.

 

I kinda see a little Marchand in him. Maybe more than a little.

 

Foolish to move him. He's honestly the only guy over 25 I would keep around.

 

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

if we keep the older guy TK during a rebuild and give him a huge long term contract,

 

He's under contract for two more seasons so there's no need to move him now.

 

If they can change the course of the franchise by moving him? Do it.