Official…Keith Jones named President of Hockey Operations

[flyercanuck]

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't know if Rejean or Doug comes into this morass and has the cache to speak to enraged season ticket holders the way Jonesy will. 

 

 

Here's an idea...hire competent people that will build a winning team and your fanbase won't be enraged. 

 

I know...that's crazy talk. 

[ruxpin]

When I heard this a day or two ago, I honestly thought it was a joke.

 

Turns out it's a sick joke and the franchise and its fans are the punchline.

 

This is simply idiotic. 

 

Philly fans deserve better.

 

Go Eagles!

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Philly fans deserve better.

 

Yes we do. We've suffered long enough.

[radoran]

18 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Philly fans deserve better.

 

Thing is, Philly fans HAVE better.

 

The Phillies have an MVP and were in the World Series.

 

The Union have back to back Finals appearances.

 

The Sixers have an MVP and are in the playoffs again, with a solid competitive chance.

 

The Eagles were in the Super Bowl having won it six years ago.

 

And the Flyers are...

 

It's not the season ticket buyers they need to appease, it's the entire fan base.

 

Nobody cares about the Flyers. And when I say nobody I mean yes we're here and there are vestiges of a fan base and the inevitable support from youth hockey and those families and (some) local companies.

 

But people need a reason to wear their Flyers gear. I've got a brand new hat, gdTippett!

 

I grew up a hockey fan. The kids today* growing up with successful Eagles, Phillies, Union, and Sixers franchises just might need to be reintroduced to successful hockey.

 

And the only place that's going to happen is on the ice.

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Neither DB or KJ have done anything to "DESERVE" a chance. You don't deserve just by being hired.

I've been thinking about this a little.

You make a good point, KJ and DB don't have the strongest resumes' and therefore don't "deserve" the opportunity. 

That's what you're saying- yes?

 

I took @Howie58 's comment to mean now that they have the jobs, they "deserve" the chance to actually succeed or fail based on their actions from this point forward.

 

Many people are saying, ( that's for you Ron Jeremy) this management structure is destined to fail.

That's before seeing any results.

 

it seems to me both ideas have weight.

 

Like I said people can think and feel what they like, did I interpret your post correctly?

[ruxpin]

28 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Thing is, Philly fans HAVE better.

 

The Phillies have an MVP and were in the World Series.

 

The Union have back to back Finals appearances.

 

The Sixers have an MVP and are in the playoffs again, with a solid competitive chance.

 

The Eagles were in the Super Bowl having won it six years ago.

 

And the Flyers are...

 

It's not the season ticket buyers they need to appease, it's the entire fan base.

 

Nobody cares about the Flyers. And when I say nobody I mean yes we're here and there are vestiges of a fan base and the inevitable support from youth hockey and those families and (some) local companies.

 

But people need a reason to wear their Flyers gear. I've got a brand new hat, gdTippett!

 

I grew up a hockey fan. The kids today* growing up with successful Eagles, Phillies, Union, and Sixers franchises just might need to be reintroduced to successful hockey.

 

And the only place that's going to happen is on the ice.

This. A million times this.

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I've been thinking about this a little.

You make a good point, KJ and DB don't have the strongest resumes' and therefore don't "deserve" the opportunity. 

That's what you're saying- yes?

 

I took @Howie58 's comment to mean now that they have the jobs, they "deserve" the chance to actually succeed or fail based on their actions from this point forward.

 

Many people are saying, ( that's for you Ron Jeremy) this management structure is destined to fail.

That's before seeing any results.

 

it seems to me both ideas have weight.

 

Like I said people can think and feel what they like, did I interpret your post correctly?

I'm okay with the Briere hire.  The Jones hire is a sick joke on its face.  Maybe it works out, but if it does it's by dumb luck. Not because there's a shred of sanity in it.  This is buying Twitter for well more than it's worth and then cutting the actual worth in half. I mean, what fraudulent idiot would do that?

[Howie58]

10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I've been thinking about this a little.

You make a good point, KJ and DB don't have the strongest resumes' and therefore don't "deserve" the opportunity. 

That's what you're saying- yes?

 

I took @Howie58 's comment to mean now that they have the jobs, they "deserve" the chance to actually succeed or fail based on their actions from this point forward.

 

Many people are saying, ( that's for you Ron Jeremy) this management structure is destined to fail.

That's before seeing any results.

 

it seems to me both ideas have weight.

 

Like I said people can think and feel what they like, did I interpret your post correctly?

Greetings:

 

Yes, from my vantage, "deserve" means they get a fair shake, not that they earned this via experience.  But I understand how some feel, including myself, that Keith's background and insider status diminish credibility.  I really hoped for an outsider.  But I am fair-minded.  Remember...Ronald Reagan was an actor who morphed into a pretty good governor and (even if I disagreed with many policies) a fine President.  People can morph and learn.  And for all our sakes, and the franchise's, I hope our inexperienced duo lays the foundation for a better Flyers future. I would like to see another Cup before kicking up daisies.  

[Lindbergh31]

7 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I'm perfectly fine with Jonsey as a player and an announcer. We'll see how he does as an executive - he and Danny have the chance now.

 

I am perfectly happy to "wait and see" while also acknowledging the striking "old way" the "new direction" has taken.

 

But maybe the Comcast Spectacor exec in his first position hiring a former player as President of Hockey Operations in his first position to oversee a former player as General Manager in his first NHL position will work out fine.

 

I agree I'm also willing to give Jones and Briere a chance. Maybe possible candidates outside the organization don't want the Flyers POHO and GM, who knows. Both guys know the passion of the fans when they put a decent product on the ice. Let's see if the new CEO of Comcast will put Clarke, Barber and Holmgren out to the pastures, we can only hope.

[Mad Dog]

They just refuse to learn...

[pilldoc]

The problem I have with the Jones hiring is this .... And I believe Charlie O'Connor explains it best.  He writes:

 

"Jones doesn’t have the kind of on-the-ground GM or assistant GM experience that will allow him to speak from a position of experience to Briere in terms of negotiating contracts, dealing with agents and playing hardball with other GMs on trades — all of which Briere will need to master quickly to successfully execute the club’s planned rebuild. In fact, Jones has never been in an NHL front office at all. Briere will be on his own in terms of learning how to be an NHL GM on the job, or he’ll only have the existing advisers who were unable to steer the previous GM in an intelligent team-building direction.

 

And like Briere, Jones is another former Flyer. He’s part of the club, in other words, that tends to have strong beliefs regarding the way the Flyers should be built and play. Jones is a knowledgeable hockey guy, but anyone who has watched locally televised Flyers games for the last half-decade and noted his love of players like Rasmus Ristolainen (long before the Flyers traded for him) will know that he’s very much a Hockey Guy in the traditional sense. For all his strengths as a candidate and a person, he’s not exactly going to be bringing a fresh, outsider perspective to the brain trust mix."

 

So let me get this straight ..... the hockey team is now run, in hierarchical order, by:
- a retired healthcare executive
- a drive time radio panelist and color commentator who worked for the team already
- a former player who took a couple classes at Wharton and spent two years "learning" from one of the worst GMs in league history
- the longtime sidekick to aforesaid worst GM who the Flyers apparently forgot to fire

Please tell me how my skepticism of this interview-less process was unwarranted. What a freaking disaster.

 

Now this all could work out ...but I am not holding my breath.

Edited May 12, 2023 by pilldoc

[GrittyForever]

So I guess this means he beat out Lindros for the job. 

[flyercanuck]

7 hours ago, pilldoc said:

his love of players like Rasmus Ristolainen

 

We're doomed.

 

It's like a circus....but with Gritty! 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by flyercanuck

[flyercanuck]

Oh, and this really needs to be brought into the emoji arsenal...

 

We'll be needing it for years.

 

I can just see it...10 years from now at the 2033 draft, after finshing dead last 6 years in a row Philly finally wins the lottery, and with generational talent Nate "Golden Blades" McTopCheese the consensus first overall, Flyer GM Kevin Hayes declines the pick because the microphone is in the defensive zone of the arena and he can't be bothered to get back there.

Edited May 12, 2023 by flyercanuck

[LegionOfDoom]

After reading all the post and concerns of everyone here and understanding their concerns, the main points I take out of this hire is, first of all the last two candidates for the job was Keith Jones and Eddie Olczyk. I would of been very skeptical and upset if they would of hired EO as the President, he will always have ties to Pittsburgh and root for them, it shows' in his commentary and demeanor. 

Let's look at the other candidates that interviewed/talk to: 

 

1. Scott Mellanby: Here's your outside hire = Everything everyone is worried about Jonesy, without having a Philadelphia passion for the team and city/culture.

 

2. Doug Wilson: Here is someone that did peak my interest and has a resume to back up his body of work, unfortunately his health and longevity for the foreseeable future is/was a detriment to being able to deliver the long haul of this rebuild.(5 year plan)

 

3. Ray Shero: See Dough Wilson minus the health issues, it seems he has his eyes on Pittsburgh again, this would of been a "more of the same" hire though at it's finest.

 

4. Emilie Castonguay: Outside the box from, "Just a good Ol boys, never meanin' no harm"

though being with Vancouver, would of opened up a can of worms of dismay and a soap opera theatre "The Coaches Agency Reckless."                    *{Conflict of Interest}

 

5. Cammi Granato: Though I wouldn't publicly root for it, this would be an interesting choice, again I officially wouldn't back it up or approve it, but none the less, there is talent there. Also see choice 4*{Conflict of Interest}

 

Honorable mentions: Chris Pronger, etc, etc, etc....

 

So the last two candidates were Eddie and Jonesy.

 

Let me tell you something about Keith Jones, he's a soldier, a friend, a guy you want by your side in the trenches. He has integrity, commitment, self-awareness, drive, intelligence, a sense of humor, a strategic thinker; one of the cornerstones of leadership is the ability to stand up and voice/control a situation and make a decision and follow through. He's done that before. (See: Eric Lindros, collapsed lung assessment; Adventures of a Hot Mike, Many More: Unscripted.)

 

He will stand up to the Old Guard and put his foot down if he deems it necessary.

Of all the candidates that interviewed, maybe only two, I would not be so hesitant with (Doug and Ray), This position is more a position of Architect, setting up your pieces for success.

Mr. Jones in all his endeavors has always done his homework, prepared himself to be able to do his job/s in all that he has touched.

I don't think he would of interviewed for the position, had he thought, he would not take it seriously and respect the broad breath of commitment this unification entails(the marriage of Hockey Operations and Business Operations, in one accord), this embarges(embarks).

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, LegionOfDoom said:

Of all the candidates that interviewed, maybe only two, I would not be so hesitant with (Doug and Ray), This position is more a position of Architect, setting up your pieces for success.

Mr. Jones in all his endeavors has always done his homework, prepared himself to be able to do his job/s in all that he has touched.

I don't think he would of interviewed for the position, had he thought, he would not take it seriously and respect the broad breath of commitment this unification entails(the marriage of Hockey Operations and Business Operations, in one accord), this embarges(embarks).

The ability of this fanbase to just the swallow malignant $hit the org gives them still surprises me.

 

"Of all the candidates that interviewed" is half the problem.  They hired a GM with near-zero experience and compounded it by hiring his boss with even less experience.  I am extremely excited to watch "Mr. Jones" do his "homework" while on the job.

 

 

Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

Edited May 12, 2023 by SCFlyguy

[radoran]

I've driven a car and complained about traffic for years.

 

I'm not qualified to run a car company.

 

[GratefulFlyers]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Flyer GM Kevin Hayes

 

I will never read another post of yours. Ever. My god how could you!!!

[CoachX]

14 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I've been thinking about this a little.

You make a good point, KJ and DB don't have the strongest resumes' and therefore don't "deserve" the opportunity. 

That's what you're saying- yes?

Yes.

 

If either had a sustained history of success in their "job field", and were hired based on that success, I could see them "deserving" a chance becasue they earned it

[Howie58]

Folks have expressed their concerns and all are warranted.  We are in a "wait-and-see" mode.  Per a comment made earlier, the question I have is about "intermediate metrics," putting aside win-loss percentage.  Over the next few years, will we see:

 

Fewer man-game losses due to injury?

Better OT-SO percentage?

Better record at LVH?

Better outside assessment of Flyers' farm system?

Higher percentage of drafts hitting the 100 game mark in the NHL?

 

If the Flyers hired me as a consultant, I'd want to have some metrics in place to judge the new management.  I suspect things like the injuries and quality assessment will have to improve before we see at better product.  That would be the case regardless of hire.  And I would love to hear our new hires talk about their metrics for success.  Torts has been very vocal about the medical/training "complex" as I call it, and it's hard to imagine significant improvement in wins-losses unless we keep our players healthier....or draft/acquire players who are less injury prone.  I also hope that Lappy continues his work at LVH--we need that to be a premier feeder.  

 

Good comments all around.  This thread is a comment on how seriously we take the club and the respect we have for each other on the board.

 

 

[radoran]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Flyer GM Kevin Hayes

33 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I will never read another post of yours. Ever. My god how could you!!!

 

I mean, it's really laughable to think about when you take a moment to sit back and look at this from a purely rational viewpoint not driven by (not entirely) irrational hatred of a player and in the sobering light of reality realize that Scott Laughton is sitting right there.

 

Obvious, innit?

 

[GratefulFlyers]

I don't care if they're both rookies but I do care that Jones has expressed admiration for Ristolainen. I heard the Philly radio guys this year a few times and they both adored Ristolainen too. So were they just giving us the standard PR line or do they truly believe he's a good player? I don't know but that's mostly what bothers me about the Jones hire. The "good old boys" club aspect too of course. It's just ridiculous that the Flyers keep hiring their own ex players.

[CoachX]

12 hours ago, pilldoc said:

The problem I have with the Jones hiring is this .... And I believe Charlie O'Connor explains it best.  He writes:

 

"Jones doesn’t have the kind of on-the-ground GM or assistant GM experience that will allow him to speak from a position of experience to Briere in terms of negotiating contracts, dealing with agents and playing hardball with other GMs on trades

And Briere doesnt have the experience to know the difference

 

There isn't one part of this duo that's better than the other.

[CoachX]

4 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said:

He will stand up to the Old Guard and put his foot down if he deems it necessary.

in order for him to have a true opportunity to succeed, the old guard should not be there

[LegionOfDoom]

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

The ability of this fanbase to just the swallow malignant $hit the org gives them still surprises me.

 

"Of all the candidates that interviewed" is half the problem.  They hired a GM with near-zero experience and compounded it by hiring his boss with even less experience.  I am extremely excited to watch "Mr. Jones" do his "homework" while on the job.

 

 

Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

Ability and Swallow shouldn't come to a suprise from the organization's fanbase, when for the past several years, the same spew has been chopped up and restructured from Monday thru Friday. This new lettuce is different from all the word salad I hear year in and year out from a fan base that over reacts to any obsessive compulsive change they deem unfit for their daily latte' lifestyle.

 

"Of all the candidates interviewed" is half the problem(was done by another firm to your un-liking), which equates to the same sum of the parts, that equals = no solution. You have no solution, therefore you validate it with no construction to your criticism. 

Name your magical GM that would take take this position in the Flyers organization, who is this GM? I wasn't on board with hiring Fonzy, but he has done what other coaches haven't  been able to do so far as much as he has done. Accountability and Professionalism as an athlete in the game. He did cost us a better 1st round pick, but it was at the expense of building a better base product. I recant my disposition of the hire and still grip to the feelings of caution. he's showed his product for the year, and it's not wanting.

 

Your extreme excitement should be tempered with the fact that we have two new hires that are experienced in what the vision of the end goal is for the city and what we stand for. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are to examples of Wall Flowers, with only one headlight at the start of their careers, that carried the vision of what we have today.

 

Bottom line is this not an Exacta, nor how some believe a Trifecta, not even a Superfecta but it will be a 5 headed monster that will parlay in unison what the Philadelphia Flyers organization will run as, and it seems that each moving part will make it their job to improve on the sum of all the moving parts, to bring back the storied history of this once proud organization and to put some respect back in the name.

We will see. What is known is that each part of this machine is a fan, is a patron and is a collaborator to getting this mission accomplished. There will most likely be late nights, mishaps and ballyhoos....that's the way the bees bumble.....