You need to move a RW who you moving??

[OccamsRazor]

Who you moving for whatever reason but for example with a Hayes contract out too.

 

Or for other top pick(s) or players/prospects back....your dream/choice.

[flyercanuck]

I'd like to completely cull every player Fletcher traded for or signed as a free agent. 

 

If I'm going to start watching a Flyer rebuild, the less memories of that lousy bastard the better. If we want to actually build a good team we need to remove the stink Chuckie left.

 

There....I'm starting to feel better already. 

 

Honestly, if Atkinson does come back and play anywhere near what he was, he does have some value.

Edited May 25, 2023 by flyercanuck

[JR Ewing]

This is a difficult situation; RW depth is poor. I suspect that I'm in the minority on this one around here, but I am *not* bullish on the future of Owen Tippett. He's a shoot-first guy who's not a great finisher, with blinders on all the time who is terrible defensively... He's also the Flyers best young RW, so he's not likely at all to be going anywhere anytime soon, and you don't improve that depth by getting rid of the best of the bunch, poor as the bunch may be. He's a 1RW on a bad team, 2RW on an average team, a 3RW on a strong team.

 

Again, I may be alone. Where I see a one-dimensional volume shooter who doesn't use his teammates enough, others may see more from him. It would be great if he makes me come back in April and say "Man, was I ever wrong".

 

[radoran]

Need to make the poll check boxes.

 

Keeping Konexny, Old Forester, Tuomala, and Tippett.

 

I got a new hat.

 

[GrittyForever]

All of the above, but Atkinson goes first. Really not sure you can get much for him at this point but moving out the salary is worth it regardless. If we're going to go with youth and new players it's the logical first move . 

[SCFlyguy]

Restock the system by trading Konecny.  Trade Atkinson if you don't have to give up anything to do it (not likely).

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Honestly, if Atkinson does come back and play anywhere near what he was, he does have some value.

 

I agree however it will force Foerster back to the AHL till maybe they can move Cam maybe at the deadline...so other than that i am on board with this.

 

I guess waiting one more year won't hurt if it is for the good of the team/rebuild. Unless they can swing another trade/offer.

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

This is a difficult situation; RW depth is poor. I suspect that I'm in the minority on this one around here, but I am *not* bullish on the future of Owen Tippett. He's a shoot-first guy who's not a great finisher, with blinders on all the time who is terrible defensively... He's also the Flyers best young RW, so he's not likely at all to be going anywhere anytime soon, and you don't improve that depth by getting rid of the best of the bunch, poor as the bunch may be. He's a 1RW on a bad team, 2RW on an average team, a 3RW on a strong team.

 

Again, I may be alone. Where I see a one-dimensional volume shooter who doesn't use his teammates enough, others may see more from him. It would be great if he makes me come back in April and say "Man, was I ever wrong".

 

 

Great point so since he came over in the Giroux trade and they aren't real attached now might be a good time to trade him maybe even at the draft before he gets extended....or maybe better after once you do get him signed to a decent bridge deal...which ever works best i am down with.

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Really not sure you can get much for him at this point but moving out the salary is worth it regardless.

 

As FC stated a solid year may certainly make him look better for a trade deadline deal maybe...however he would have to have a strong season which i would say CAN'T happen...but 5.2 mill (actual salary - 5.8 mill cap hit) for the one more season at the deadline one year removed from a 23 goal 50 point season isn't the end all be all - but is movable i think. I trust Danny work something out more than i do Chuck.

 

Let's hope for a decent year one of the rebuild....we would consider it year one right???

[OccamsRazor]

49 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Restock the system by trading Konecny.

 

I will be hard to  move on from this kid but he has the chance of bringing the biggest return i think for sure.

[SCFlyguy]

fc's approach to Atkinson is a good one.  Right now they aren't going anywhere, so Atkinson isn't hurting anything and he would probably cost you something to move.  So it is worth a roll of the dice to see if he can come back healthy and play well.  If he does, he absolutely has value at the deadline this year or next.

Edited May 25, 2023 by SCFlyguy

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

So it is worth a roll of the dice to see if he can come back healthy and play well.

 

I don't think they have a choice i do not want to try the ol Chuck move and sending  a 2024 2nd to move him oh look wait they don't even have one.

 

And no to sending a 2025 2nd either...but i mean i would send the Kings 2024 5th to move on from him...but prefer just to hold on to him and hope he has a good season to make him movable at the deadline next season for some solid if not unspectacular in return. 

[GrittyForever]

6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Let's hope for a decent year one of the rebuild....we would consider it year one right???

I suppose. You could argue hiring Torts is year one as it's the beginning of a new direction, then firing Fletcher is also year one beginning, or hiring Briere is year one beginning BUT if they are still tearing down then year one starts with the build back up. 

 

idk when year one is, I just hope they are ruthless with this rebuild and don't convince themselves (again) that they are just a few players away. 

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

I suppose. You could argue hiring Torts is year one as it's the beginning of a new direction, then firing Fletcher is also year one beginning, or hiring Briere is year one beginning BUT if they are still tearing down then year one starts with the build back up. 

 

idk when year one is, I just hope they are ruthless with this rebuild and don't convince themselves (again) that they are just a few players away. 

 

Ok going into year two is good with me.

 

So now 2 years away from being 3 years away...i like it feels normal.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, GrittyForever said:

they are just a few players away. 

 

Thing is, they're not not "just a few players away." Get a legit superstar 1C, a legit star 1D, shed some anchors and add some role players and you're not far.

 

They just don't really have the assets to pull off getting those legit assets to actually compete.

 

They are not "just a few guys away" next year. They are "a few guys away" as they look for those guys over the next few years.

 

To your point, don't keep thinking you can make it every year. Don't sign a guy to a seven year deal to fill "next year's" hole. Don't try to "get another Cup for Ed" or "get Gee 'his Cup'".

 

I would just primarily like to see an abandonment of the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" philosophy. Yes, I get St. Louis and yes, Florida is in the Finals this year. St. Louis had been to a Conference Final two years before and Florida won the President's Trophy, has #1, 2 #2s, #4, and #6 overall picks on the roster, and just emerged from the shadow of a legit dynastic Lightning team.

 

The difference between those situations and "just make the playoffs" is glaring.

Edited May 25, 2023 by radoran

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

#1, #2

 

And they were acquired 10 and 9 years ago....just think about that. So much has to fall right in order to get to the top...

[radoran]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And they were acquired 10 and 9 years ago....just think about that. So much has to fall right in order to get to the top...

 

It was pointed out in the Carolina thread that it could look like the Canes were swept easily, but they were four one goal (2 OT) games against a scorching hot goalie.

 

It's possible to play really well and still lose. See: Bowl, Super 2023.

 

Barkov's been in the league 10 years and he's about to turn 28.

 

Ekblad and Reinhart then add Tkahchuk and Bennett all in their mid-20s. That's where you want to be when constructing your roster.

 

And every one of them is signed for the next two seasons.

 

Along with Bobrovsky.

 

And the Flyers had to have Kevin Hayes for seven years to win a playoff round that one time.

 

Anything can happen.

 

[GrittyForever]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Ok going into year two is good with me.

 

So now 2 years away from being 3 years away...i like it feels normal.

Could be. If Briere fails it will be. 

[GrittyForever]

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

I just hope they are ruthless with this rebuild and don't convince themselves (again) that they are just a few players away. 

That's what I actually said. I take issue with @radoran  just quoting the last 7 words. 

 

[radoran]

13 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

That's what I actually said. I take issue with @radoran  just quoting the last 7 words.

 

Certainly didn't mean to offend. Wasn't saying you were saying they were "a few players away" - just reacting to the concept.

 

They both are "just a few players away" because of the holes they have and not "just a few players away" because they don't have the capacity to fill those holes at the moment.

 

To your point (which I said a couple times noting that it wasn't "a few players away") the traditional Flyer way would be to fill whatever "hole" they saw with whatever "fill" they found, and slap a 7-8 year contract on it.

 

That's why they're still paying Bryzgalov. That's why they have Hayes. That's why they had to move Voracek for Atkinson. That's why they dealt Ghost. That's why they....

 

It just goes on and on.

 

If they do that they will continue to have problems.

 

Make the right move at the right time and you wind up sending Weeger and Huberdeau to Calgary for Tkachuk.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And they were acquired 10 and 9 years ago....just think about that. So much has to fall right in order to get to the top...

 

Like Bob getting red hot at the right time.

You could usually count on him to crumble in the playoffs...guys been a rock this time.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Like Bob getting red hot at the right time.

You could usually count on him to crumble in the playoffs...guys been a rock this time.

 

Because he is 34 and has to think how many swings do i have left at the pinata...

 

 

..but he has to know none of it matter if they don't win the Cup.

[GrittyForever]

20 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Like Bob getting red hot at the right time.

You could usually count on him to crumble in the playoffs...guys been a rock this time.

He has, and the talk now is that he was "sick" earlier in the year rather than just sucking but it's all a bit vague. Covid? Long covid? No idea what his problem was but I'd suggest he is exceptionally well rested this playoffs and that might be the reason compared to previous seasons where he logged a lot of games over the year and then crapped out in the playoffs. Whatever it is, the guy is dialed in and if he keeps that up for the final they will win the cup.

 

Calgary fans must be going insane. Buffalo fans will be insane in the final if it's Eichel vs. Reinhart (not to mention Montour) the two "star" players they ditched for their umpteenth rebuild. 

 

Buffalo also ditched another guy to some dumb team. name escapes me at the moment. Big dumb Finn that thinks he's a viking. Rizo? Ratso? Can't remember his name, but he's not in the playoffs. 

 

I mock Buffalo (to make myself feel better) but I hope we do what they did and clean house, regardless of where our "big names" end up and what happens to them. We need Torts' "subtraction" or there's no hope. 

[radoran]

28 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

I'd suggest he is exceptionally well rested this playoffs

 

He also didn't play the last few weeks of the season and Lyon started the first three games of the playoffs.

 

"rested" doesn't even begin to describe it

 

the flip side concern is "rutsy" but he certainly hasn't shown that.

 

30 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Buffalo fans will be insane in the final if it's Eichel vs. Reinhart (not to mention Montour) the two "star" players they ditched for their umpteenth rebuild. 

 

The Sabres got the rights to Levi and a #28 overall pick for Reinhart (a #2 overall pick).

 

Levi's looking good in limited action. Their pick hasn't come over from Czechia yet.

 

You take that for Konecny? (I'd like a little more...)

[GrittyForever]

9 hours ago, radoran said:

The Sabres got the rights to Levi and a #28 overall pick for Reinhart (a #2 overall pick).

 

Levi's looking good in limited action. Their pick hasn't come over from Czechia yet.

 

You take that for Konecny? (I'd like a little more...)

Oh no, the Sabres got a lot for their "big 3" but I still think it must bug them that they spent so much time and effort building around them and then another one goes straight on to win a cup (and if Vegas wins Eichel might get the Conn Smyth just like Ryan O'Reilly did after they traded him, has to be exasperating) . The Czechia prospect is actually doing well in Rochester by the way. Levi does look good and they got Tuch and a bunch of picks for Eichel and picks for Risto, they have a superb pipeline now no question. If we pass them in the next few years we will have performed a miracle, or they will have found a way to screw it all up again. Unlikely. 

 

Reinhart was going to be a free agent while Konecny is still signed for another year after this so maybe not comparable. He's not high on my list of must get rid of anyway. Unless I got a great offer I'm keeping him for at least one more year and then deadline dealing him the year after that.