canoli Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think getting Grossman(n) to sign for $2.0 or 2.5 per year is ... dreaming. The few short weeks he's been with the Flyers his value is plain to see and the principals have duly noted it I'm sure.I'm guessing he'll want a 5-year deal averaging ~ $4mil / year. IMO he's worth that to us (to Bryzgalov). Letting him walk over a lousy $1mil (nice when it's not my money!) would not be smart.Kubina can walk away after the season unless he shows he's invaluable to us in the POs, which is a distinct possibility. He's a good, solid defenseman but he's pretty old - I'd rather see the roster spot go to one of our younger guys next year and going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think getting Grossman(n) to sign for $2.0 or 2.5 per year is ... dreaming. The few short weeks he's been with the Flyers his value is plain to see and the principals have duly noted it I'm sure.I'm guessing he'll want a 5-year deal averaging ~ $4mil / year. IMO he's worth that to us (to Bryzgalov). Letting him walk over a lousy $1mil (nice when it's not my money!) would not be smart.Kubina can walk away after the season unless he shows he's invaluable to us in the POs, which is a distinct possibility. He's a good, solid defenseman but he's pretty old - I'd rather see the roster spot go to one of our younger guys next year and going forward.Kubina would be good to sign on a year by year basis....at his age, it would make sense. You might have to pay a little more for him to take a one year contract but I htink it would be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think getting Grossman(n) to sign for $2.0 or 2.5 per year is ... dreaming. The few short weeks he's been with the Flyers his value is plain to see and the principals have duly noted it I'm sure.I'm guessing he'll want a 5-year deal averaging ~ $4mil / year. IMO he's worth that to us (to Bryzgalov).mmm, i dunno about all that. defensive defensemen don't get paydays like that. even dan girardi, heart and soul guy for the rags (with a bit more offensive upside than grossmann), is only ticking in at $3.325mil. i'd be a little surprised if grossmann was able to command much more than ~$3mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 i'd be a little surprised if grossmann was able to command much more than ~$3mil.Agreed. He won't get 4. Somewhere around 3 is reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @JackStraw, @azizAt 3m, that is fine in my book. Its a huge raise for him and he is a round peg in a round hole that we need. He is 27 and skates good for a big guy (those dam swedes! :0). I am not sold on Kubina. A nice stop gap yes, but at 35 and not showing that much- I will pass. That leaves us to sign Carle- which to me is the right thing to do. We are not ready for MAB, Gus or the new guy Manning to chew up those 22 minutes a night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyS Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 mmm, i dunno about all that. defensive defensemen don't get paydays like that. even dan girardi, heart and soul guy for the rags (with a bit more offensive upside than grossmann), is only ticking in at $3.325mil.i'd be a little surprised if grossmann was able to command much more than ~$3mil.For $3 million/year, I say give the guy a 3 or 4 year deal. He's solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyS Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @JackStraw, @azizAt 3m, that is fine in my book. Its a huge raise for him and he is a round peg in a round hole that we need. He is 27 and skates good for a big guy (those dam swedes! :0).I am not sold on Kubina. A nice stop gap yes, but at 35 and not showing that much- I will pass.That leaves us to sign Carle- which to me is the right thing to do. We are not ready for MAB, Gus or the new guy Manning to chew up those 22 minutes a night.The more I think about it, the more I would like to see Carle re-signed. Has he missed a single game?Sure, he looked better with Pronger out there, but who wouldn't?I guess it all depends if someone else wants to overpay for him. I think he would be worth around $4 million/year. Hope Homer finds a way to keep him in orange & black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @Vanflyer - one thing that Kubina brings is a big shot from the point. Right handed too. The Flyers are kind of light in that department. For the right price, and depending on the availability of other options, I wouldn't mind bringing Kubina back. But Grossman should be a higher priority for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @AndyS - I think they definitely need to seriously look at hanging onto Carle. I think he's worth at least what Coburn got ($4.5). Possibly more. Hopefully less than 5. If they lose him he will be expensive to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @AndySI think the posters on here are 50/50 regarding Carle. I am in his camp. Many want him to be something he is not, but what he is- is durable and reliable. He will make mistakes. The same ones that Timmo or Coburn make, but for whatever reason more glaring for him. I posted an article the other day that cited how other scouts and GM's viewed him. There was another article that cited his CORSI numbers. He is in the top 15 in the league 5-on-5 with the CORSI scoring (for what its worth). That article cited him being in the top 20 in several categories. However, when you add up his points + toi + plus / minus (not great this year, but look at sivgivalov) and combine that with his CORSI (5-on-5 particularly), he does DAMN fine. My personal only issue is the cap hit. I want to pay him the same as Coburn, yet the market will probably demand 500k more at a minimum for him. If Homer can get him for 4.5 AND Grossmann for 3 or under, its a great day for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Quit puzzy-footing around you wimps and just say it! I'll say it: I love Matt Carle. If he was a sheep.... Edited March 13, 2012 by Podein25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @JackStrawI like that right hand shot as well and agree it is very much needed. Yet, I don't want to pay the same money he is making now for that shot. He is longer on the tooth. If he wants to take a smaller pay so we can get Grossmann, than I am game for him. If he wants more pay that pushes us out of the Grossmann contract, than bye bye. Meow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 If Homer can get him for 4.5 AND Grossmann for 3 or under, its a great day for the team.and i think that entirely possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 when did we start being able to agree on stuff? it feels weird. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The trick is fitting Carle (and/or Kubina and/or Grossmann) under the cap.They've got Timo ($6.3), Mesz ($4), Coburn ($4.5), Lilja ($.725) and Pronger ($4.9) signed for next season. They can't use Pronger's $4.9M in the off-season.Gus and Manning are both signed as well.The cap at $64M this year. Flyers have $59.5 signed with 12 forwards (with Wellwood/Rinaldo not including UFA Jagr or RFA Voracek) 4 D and 2 G.Assume the $72M cap referenced in other threads (I would be shocked to see a $8M jump but that's me) and that's $12.5M to sign Carle/Grossmann/Kubina/Voracek/JagrI just don't see them keeping all three defensemen if Carle's at $4-5M and Grossmann's at $3M - if they want to keep Voracek/Jagr.Things get much better if they can get Pronger off the cap, and would essentially have $5M to use for in-season moves even if he stays on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Quit puzzy-footing around you wimps and just say it! I'll say it: I love Matt Carle. If he was a sheep....Who invited you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Assume the $72M cap referenced in other threads (I would be shocked to see a $8M jump but that's me) and that's $12.5M to sign Carle/Grossmann/Kubina/Voracek/JagrI just don't see them keeping all three defensemen if Carle's at $4-5M and Grossmann's at $3M - if they want to keep Voracek/Jagr.Things get much better if they can get Pronger off the cap, and would essentially have $5M to use for in-season moves even if he stays on.keep in mind that there is 10% upward flexibility to the cap during the offseason...which is replaced by the LTIR allowance when pronger is put on it at the start of next season. so, that'd make it an effective $19.7mil to work with over the summer, and $17.4mil once the season starts. that should let things fit, if they go somthing along the lines of Carle:$4mil/Grossmann:$3mil/Kubina:$2.5mil/Voracek:$4mil/Jagr:$2mil, give or take some on each.all assuming that $8mil bump, which i agree is a tough one to figure. plus, assuming no major changes in how things are handled CBA-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) @JackStrawListen bucko, last I heard it was still a (mostly) free country.(well your country is; mine, not so much). Edited March 13, 2012 by Podein25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @Podein25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 keep in mind that there is 10% upward flexibility to the cap during the offseason...which is replaced by the LTIR allowance when pronger is put on it at the start of next season. so, that'd make it an effective $19.7mil to work with over the summer, and $17.4mil once the season starts. that should let things fit, if they go somthing along the lines of Carle:$4mil/Grossmann:$3mil/Kubina:$2.5mil/Voracek:$4mil/Jagr:$2mil, give or take some on each.all assuming that $8mil bump, which i agree is a tough one to figure. plus, assuming no major changes in how things are handled CBA-wise.Forgot about the 10% margin, which does make life a little easier.How can they make these decisions WITHOUT knowing what the new CBA will be?Ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 How can they make these decisions WITHOUT knowing what the new CBA will be?Ridiculous.don't know. part of me thinks we aren't going to see much in the way of pending UFA re-signings before july 1...and there'll just be a feeding frenzy once the new deal is done. tough for a team to make a salary/term commitment without knowing what kind of environment they'll be operating in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @Podein25 - if it's a free country how come it costs so much for a gallon of gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @aziz - whoa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 well good, I hope I'm wrong because I'd like to see Grossmann stay. But it's surely "his" year for a big payday - if there will ever be one it's this summer. It's all falling into place for him if he keeps up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @canoli"well good, I hope I'm wrong because I'd like to see Grossmann stay. But it's surely "his" year for a big payday - if there will ever be one it's this summer. It's all falling into place for him if he keeps up the good work."I agree with that as well. The best we can hope for is he likes the organization and is less interested in the "MOST" money versus the "BEST" opportunity. Same could be said for Carle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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