radoran Posted January 8 Posted January 8 32 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: The idea that CHI barely beat a superior Flyers team solely because of goaltending is another folk tale Flyers fans tell their kids. That Chicago team had the third most points in the league and was the #2 team in the West, 52 wins, 112 points. The Flyers were a 7 seed that qualified on the last day of the season, 41 wins, 88 points. The Flyers then won the division the next year and then won the trades and haven't won much of anything since. 1 Quote
GratefulFlyers Posted January 8 Posted January 8 12 hours ago, radoran said: If the Blackhawks got "average goaltending" it wouldn't have gone six games. Maybe maybe not. But the fact is Niemi wasn't pulled in any of the games whereas Leighton was yanked in G1 and again in G5. He also gave up the softest Cup-winning goal in NHL history. So Chicago's goaltending in the Final was better than the Flyers, which is all it needed to be. btw do you recall why Boucher didn't start G6? He relieved Leighton in G1 and G5 IIRC so apparently he wasn't still hurt from Parent falling on him. Boucher's play in G82 was why the Flyers even made the POs...seems like he should've gotten the start in G6. Quote
FD19372 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 18 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Maybe maybe not. But the fact is Niemi wasn't pulled in any of the games whereas Leighton was yanked in G1 and again in G5. He also gave up the softest Cup-winning goal in NHL history. So Chicago's goaltending in the Final was better than the Flyers, which is all it needed to be. btw do you recall why Boucher didn't start G6? He relieved Leighton in G1 and G5 IIRC so apparently he wasn't still hurt from Parent falling on him. Boucher's play in G82 was why the Flyers even made the POs...seems like he should've gotten the start in G6. I think they believed 1) Boucher was still an injury risk and 2) Leighton played well enough that it didn't matter. It's easy to say in hindsight, but I think if Boosh was ready to go at all in Game 6, you start him. He had playoff experience, and when Leighton got Leaky, he got REALLY Leaky. I don't think the Flyers would have won Game 7 in Chicago with either goalie, but we'll never know. 1 Quote
radoran Posted January 8 Posted January 8 17 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: So Chicago's goaltending in the Final was better than the Flyers, which is all it needed to be. Exactly. And had they gotten "average" goaltending which would have been better than what they got, they would have won sooner. Chicago was simply the better team. The Point here is that we know they were the better team because they won three Cups and currently have a potential generational center to build around with a two-overall wing on the way. While the Flyers "building the Flyer way" have been wandering the playoff bubble for 15 years and have... Michkov and (another) mid-round first. With the entire current roster effectively signed through next season and half of it the season after that with a not-unreasonable expectation of at least 15 (Forester, Laughton, Brink, Drysdale, Zamula/Cates). With the goaltending and the results so far, it's not a terrible soft tank except for the fact they're not getting any of the draft capital that would make them better in the long run ("better" in this case being "better" than teams around and below them in the standings that have been accumulating cap space and draft talent like, for example, Chicago). 1 Quote
GratefulFlyers Posted January 8 Posted January 8 8 minutes ago, radoran said: they were the better team because they won three Cups and currently have a potential generational center to build around with a two-overall wing on the way. Did I imply the Flyers were the better team? I don't think I did. I also explicitly stated I'm not disputing Kane or Toews' overall value nor their contribution to the 'Hawks' Cup win(s). I said the 'Hawks prob never even make the POs w/out those 2. My point is that Toews/Kane were ultimately not the difference in G6; Leighton was when he allowed the stupidest goal in Stanley Cup PO history. So I found it funny that the DRAFT POSITION IS EVERYTHING proverb fell so laughingly, so horribly on its face when a reject goalie blew the #7 seed's remarkable shot at playing G7 because he couldn't stop a shot from below the end line. Quote
GratefulFlyers Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) 51 minutes ago, FD19372 said: I don't think the Flyers would have won Game 7 in Chicago with either goalie, but we'll never know. The one thing the Flyers had going for them was the whole "Cinderella story" thing after coming back from 0-3 to beat the Bruins in 7. And then whipping the Habs pretty handily in the ECF. But I think you're probably right the Flyers lose G7 in Chicago. The 'Hawks were much quicker and a lot less gassed in the SCF. Even if Niemi sucked pretty badly Leighton was far worse. Edited January 8 by GratefulFlyers Quote
mojo1917 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 1 hour ago, radoran said: The Point here is that we know they were the better team because they won three Cups and currently have a potential generational center to build around with a two-overall wing on the way. I wonder if that series went differently, what would have changed? Would there have been the trades to win ? Would Richards and Pronger have fought at a practice? Your vision of seeing Claude Giroux feeding pucks to Jeff Carter for 4 years would have yielded what? I wonder what would have happened had that group won. I also wonder what we would be looking at if Hextall had picked Heiskenan with #2. So many things to go right or wrong or just differently. Quote
radoran Posted January 8 Posted January 8 11 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I wonder what would have happened had that group won. More like if they hadn't gotten waxed by Boston the next year. It was 2011 that Changed Everything. 2010 was the prototypical Flyer "good sign". Until it wasn't. I wasn't that impressed with Season 3 of Marvel's What If and the Flyers' Season 50 isn't helping 2 Quote
OccamsRazor Posted January 8 Posted January 8 just announce it already they keeping their players for the playoff run.... Quote
radoran Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) 19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: just announce it already they keeping their players for the playoff run.... Jonesey bluntly said they are in a position to be sellers and would not be adding at the deadline. As reluctant as I/we/they am/are to deal "the next Justin Williams", they need to move a quality RW for value. That said, they are not moving Laughton because he is just too valuable as a Flyer for Life . The Tronno media just has to let that go. I'm betting they finally deal Frost for a 4th and futures and go after a C in free agency. Welcome to the same roster as this year, plus Sam Bennett for the next eight years. Edited January 8 by radoran 2 Quote
OccamsRazor Posted January 8 Posted January 8 10 minutes ago, radoran said: As reluctant as I/we/they am/are to deal "the next Justin Williams", they need to move a quality RW for value. i agree but agreeing to which RW to be moved is the biggest issue... Quote
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) 27 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: i agree but agreeing to which RW to be moved is the biggest issue... I'd move two of them - Brink and Tippett. I know Tippett is a left winger, but that's it of necessity. He's as useless as **** on a bull. All that talent, but absolutely no brain and no clue how to use his teammates. It's too bad because the talent is there to be at least a 40 goal per season guy. But he's just too dumb. Edited January 8 by BobbyClarkeFan16 1 Quote
radoran Posted January 8 Posted January 8 8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: i agree but agreeing to which RW to be moved is the biggest issue... I had a post detailing all of the many and various "reasons" they won't move on from any of them. Watch a RW be the BPA at the draft... 1 Quote
OccamsRazor Posted January 8 Posted January 8 9 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: It's too bad because the talent is there to be at least a 40 goal per season guy. But he's just too dumb. Matvei can't set him up any better and he shanks this... 1 Quote
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 18 minutes ago, radoran said: I had a post detailing all of the many and various "reasons" they won't move on from any of them. Watch a RW be the BPA at the draft... Or they'll move said player there because "they're better suited for the wing" nonsense. Quote
radoran Posted January 9 Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: How bad is the goaltending in Philly? How bad is the defense? How bad is the backchecking? How bad is the zone coverage? How bad are the penalties? Their budding superstar has two points in nine games and is -9. In half of their losses, they've scored two goals or less. Is that the goaltending's fault? The goaltending is terrible, yes, but to lay this all at the feet of "if they just had Anthony Stolarz they'd be a contender!" is just lazy. We know this because they had Anthony Stolarz. Quote
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Let the goaltending sink the team for a top three to five pick. My only concern is that they'll have a choice between Misa and McQueen and they'll take McQueen because "size". Quote
pilldoc Posted January 9 Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, radoran said: In half of their losses, they've scored two goals or less. It goes back again to what has been pointed out ad nauseam ...... this team simply does not have the elite offensive talent as other teams have. While they are smack dab in the middle for goals scored this season at 122 (16th) in 41 games (2.97 goals/game), their undoing again is in the PP. I swear this sounds like a broken record. They again have the 4th worst PP in the league at ~15%. The PK is also smack dab in the middle sitting at roughly 78% (17th). There is some truth to the whole goalie thing as they are the 4th worst team in giving up goals. Only the Sharks / Pens / and Blue Jackets have given up more. Adding this all together tells me eveything I need need toknow about this teams. They are bubble playoff team at best with very little elite offensive talent and sub par goal tending. We really should not be surprised ....... Quote
radoran Posted January 9 Posted January 9 1 minute ago, pilldoc said: There is some truth to the whole goalie thing as they are the 4th worst team in giving up goals. There's a lot of truth to the goalie thing. There's also a lot of truth to the defense and backchecking not being up to par. And, to your point, the goal scoring hasn't been gangbusters. My quibble isn't that the goaltending is "good" it's that there's more "wrong" here than just "the goalies suck" (which was the O'Connor's point). 4 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Only the Sharks / Pens / and Blue Jackets have given up more. The weird thing is that the Pens and Jackets are ahead of the Flyers in the standings - and the Jackets are (currently) in a playoff spot. 1 Quote
OccamsRazor Posted January 9 Posted January 9 35 minutes ago, radoran said: Is that the goaltending's fault? as long as it gets them into the top 5 of the draft I don't care if this is Danny's passive tank i guess we ride with it...he's scapegoating the goalies to save face it seems like as long as they "know" why they are good with it the rest is well Torts coaching 1 Quote
GratefulFlyers Posted January 9 Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, radoran said: There's also a lot of truth to the defense and backchecking not being up to par. And, to your point, the goal scoring hasn't been gangbusters. Flyers are scoring at even-strength at a (slightly) better rate than last year when they held the 3rd Metro spot for 4+ months and were 5-7 games above .500. Their Team D has its share of breakdowns but when your goalies are this bad everything else suffers... overcompensating in your own end, risky pinches to press for goals etc. I agree the Flyers' record isn't 100% on goaltending but it is the biggest change from last year (pre-collapse) and so it prob explains ~90% of it. Quote
Cheesesteak Posted January 9 Posted January 9 On 12/27/2024 at 9:25 PM, Howie58 said: It is the fate of Philadelphia Flyers fans to lose sanity and sleep over goaltending. There must be divine being who faults us for Parent ending his career prematurely with the eye injury. I don't know what breaks the spell/evils spirits. Worth a Shot 2 Quote
radoran Posted January 9 Posted January 9 30 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: when they held the 3rd Metro spot for 4+ months and were 5-7 games above .500. And they made the Final in 2010 and they were "one of the best teams" prior to the pandemic shutdown and Giroux had the most points from date X to date Y and Frost played really well for a few months that one time at bandcamp. You're describing a middling bubble playoff team. That's what they are. That's what the Pens are. Flyers fans are really good about recalling all the good times when the team played slightly better hockey and why they're just thisclose to putting it all together despite being on track to miss the playoffs for the fifth year in a row. When Pens fans look back at the good times, they're looking at three Cups since 2009. It's a different perspective. 3 Quote
SCFlyguy Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Quote So get angry with the Flyers if you want! But keep in mind that more than anything else, you're mad at the goaltending Why does this braindead moron write about goaltending as if it is just some random uncontrollable event like the weather that an organization has no influence over? The Flyers chose and signed these goaltenders. 3 Quote
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