The Flyers at the Halfway Point

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

The web and YouTube are filled with content on the Flyers at Game 41.  It is clear we have taken a step back from where we were last year:

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/flyers-thoughts-leafs-score-standings-rebuild-trajectory-travis-konecny-matvei-michkov-john-tortorella-nhl/

 

Last year, we finished with 87 points despite a dramatic drop in performance post-trade deadline:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHI/2024.html

 

This year, we project to 78 points.  I reckoned we'd finish this year +/- 7 point from last year (I didn't see us being radically different) which says we might finish a bit below my expectations. 

 

Goaltending is the generally-accepted culprit--we are scoring more than last year and have better 5 x 5 metrics as well.  I accept that in part.  But I also reflect on our poor power play (it actually reverses momentum).  I also wonder if last year we surprised the best teams in the league (we had 14 wins against better than .500 teams; so far, only one).  And last but not least, we really tailed off after Walker was traded.  I wonder if he was instrumental in transition and puck possession in the attack zone?  Perhaps we haven't found a replacement.  As the piece above notes, we aren't consistent--superstars will take advantage of quick breakdowns.  That was clear against Toronto. 

 

Some folks see this drop-off in performance as expected in a rebuild.  Some might wonder if we are drafting and developing well.  That's important if we don't use the trade route for lineup changes.

 

A final thought on the goaltending.  Yep, so far it has been poor.  But I hope we don't lose another Stolarz, Lyon, or Bobrovsky in our evaluation process.  Our current stable is early in the career trajectory (Fedotov is a special case).  

 

Overall, the question that's been on my mind the last few weeks is as follows: When does the honeymoon end for Briere and Company?  Part of me says it's the end of Torts contract next year.  That is an endpoint that makes sense in terms of evaluating players.  But I wonder if people will get antsy after a poor 2024-25?  Don't know. A lot of this team reflects trades and drafts made under prior regimes.  Does DB need more time to clear the decks?

 

Have at it.

 

Best,

Howie

 

 

[FD19372]

It’s basically the same team, with worse goaltending. I’m hoping this franchise can see that Frost isn’t a good fit here, they figure out who’s not a good fit defensively, and tank. This is not a playoff team, and at the end of the season, my worst fear is they’ll be a team stuck in the middle to lower end of the standing, but not bottom 2 or 3…where they need to be. However, I also want to see them improve down the middle. Trading for Pettersson, will certainly and obviously help them at center.

[mkscrewy]

Positives: Sanheim. Konecny. 
surpises: cates

disappointments: take your pick, but in particular and in order: Farabee, Tippett, frost, drysdale, York. 

can’t say much about the goaltending bc not a whole lot of expectations from 2 Russians who’ve never played in the league before, and another guy who keeps getting hurt. 

[GratefulFlyers]

16 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Trading for Pettersson, will certainly and obviously help them at center.

 

Mixed feelings on Pettersson. Big talent big contract big locker room presence. How does all that fit with the Flyers under Tortorella?

 

Pettersson's got an $11.6mil cap hit for 7 more years. From what I understand he and JT Miller are butting heads and the Canucks are in a bit of disarray over it. But Vancouver is built to Win Now and I doubt they'll trade Pettersson for anything the Flyers can offer.

 

17 hours ago, Howie58 said:

When does the honeymoon end for Briere and Company?  Part of me says it's the end of Torts contract next year. 

 

I think Jones/Briere will outlive Tortorella but I also think Tortorella gets extended. They sound like they're all on the same page and believe they're rebuilding the only way they can. Maybe if they'd truly "tanked" they'd be further along IDK. Anyway, the Flyers were terrible at everything under Fletcher on and off the ice. I'm not surprised it's taking awhile to turn things around.

 

 

[tucson83]

4 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Mixed feelings on Pettersson. Big talent big contract big locker room presence. How does all that fit with the Flyers under Tortorella?

 

Pettersson's got an $11.6mil cap hit for 7 more years. From what I understand he and JT Miller are butting heads and the Canucks are in a bit of disarray over it. But Vancouver is built to Win Now and I doubt they'll trade Pettersson for anything the Flyers can offer.

 

 

I think Jones/Briere will outlive Tortorella but I also think Tortorella gets extended. They sound like they're all on the same page and believe they're rebuilding the only way they can. Maybe if they'd truly "tanked" they'd be further along IDK. Anyway, the Flyers were terrible at everything under Fletcher on and off the ice. I'm not surprised it's taking awhile to turn things around.

 

 

like what made this worse team to begin with, was it the fletcher trades or the schenn trade, carter hart not being here?

[GratefulFlyers]

1 minute ago, tucson83 said:

like what made this worse team to begin with, was it the fletcher trades or the schenn trade, carter hart not being here?

 

Yes to all of the above (though honestly I forget the Schenn trade(s))

[radoran]

Which Schenn Trade? 2017? The one they got the picks that became Frost and Farabee? That was a mistake?

 

The Luke Schenn trade was a tragic mistake and signature move by Homer 12 years ago. Ditching him and Lecavalier four years later might have been Hextall's best move, were it not for the aforementioned Brayden Schenn trade the next year.

 

Shirley we are not talking about the "won the trades" Schenn trade?

[ruxpin]

52 minutes ago, radoran said:

Which Schenn Trade? 2017? The one they got the picks that became Frost and Farabee? That was a mistake?

 

The Luke Schenn trade was a tragic mistake and signature move by Homer 12 years ago. Ditching him and Lecavalier four years later might have been Hextall's best move, were it not for the aforementioned Brayden Schenn trade the next year.

 

Shirley we are not talking about the "won the trades" Schenn trade?

 

oh my God.   We really cited either of the Schenn trades as a misstep?   The comedy continues.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

We really cited either of the Schenn trades as a misstep?

 

Apparently having Brayden Schenn for the past five years would have made all the difference.

 

In other news, someone's got the wrong #10 jersey in their closet...

 

[ruxpin]

28 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Apparently having Brayden Schenn for the past five years would have made all the difference.

 

In other news, someone's got the wrong #10 jersey in their closet...

 

 

Yes.  It should be Mel Bridgman.    I mean, who else could it be?

[FD19372]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yes.  It should be Mel Bridgman.    I mean, who else could it be?

Brad McCrimmon. RIP.

[CoachX]

On 1/9/2025 at 3:21 PM, Howie58 said:

Some might wonder if we are drafting and developing well.

Some?

[CoachX]

Full disclaimer, I've watched a couple of games this season. It was same old boring hockey. Im kind of heart broken. The passion I've had for this franchise is gone. There's nothing to see here. The upside is I felt the same way about the Phillies for about 10 years, and then they were able to bring me back. Im hoping the Flyers do the same, but I suspect it'll take a few more years. Sure would be nice to see them dump some of these stiffs, including he-who-I-cant-shut-up-about

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

The passion I've had for this franchise is gone. There's nothing to see here.

 

I've been there the past 5 or 6 seasons ...  I just got done telling a co-worker I no longer have any emotional attachment.  Period. End of story.   I won't attend a game. I won't buy any Flyers merchandise.  I will do the occasional watch for a few minutes but I won't sit there for 3 hours to watch a whole game .... I just won't.

[CoachX]

@pilldoc

 

I get ya. I feel the same way. Maybe if they build something around Michov, it will get me motivated. I don't know. The only time I feel any excitement is the trade deadline and draft. Thats a whole lot of waiting for little to nothing in return. They need a sparkplug. A player who throws his body around, scores some goals, starts some schit and gets in some scraps. Something worth seeing. A Steve Downie with a functional brain would work

[OccamsRazor]

25 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I've been there the past 5 or 6 seasons ...  I just got done telling a co-worker I no longer have any emotional attachment.  Period. End of story.   I won't attend a game. I won't buy any Flyers merchandise.  I will do the occasional watch for a few minutes but I won't sit there for 3 hours to watch a whole game .... I just won't.

 

 

it's just like a void in your chest and we all come here to discuss our ailments and taken therapy here from friends...

 

[ruxpin]

5 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

I've been there the past 5 or 6 seasons ...  I just got done telling a co-worker I no longer have any emotional attachment.  Period. End of story.   I won't attend a game. I won't buy any Flyers merchandise.  I will do the occasional watch for a few minutes but I won't sit there for 3 hours to watch a whole game .... I just won't.

Same. I'm really not sure how long it's been since I've watched a whole period.  And when I do watch, there's no emotion. And it doesn't hold my attention. It's like I'm watching a detergent infomercial in Aramaic.

 

It's like clown ice capades. But not nearly as interesting. 

 

Makes me sad.

[pilldoc]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

It's like I'm watching a detergent infomercial in Aramaic.

And sadly there’s not  “an ancient Chinese secret “ near the end showing everything so rosy and nice……

 

We all have joked about it it one time or another … but it really is… Lather, Wash, Rinse  then repeat…..

[Fuzz]

7 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Same. I'm really not sure how long it's been since I've watched a whole period.  And when I do watch, there's no emotion. And it doesn't hold my attention. It's like I'm watching a detergent infomercial in Aramaic.

 

It's like clown ice capades. But not nearly as interesting. 

 

Makes me sad.

I would much rather see them do a real rebuild.  To really make an attempt to win a Cup.  But that's not what they are trying to do. 

They should be trading away many of their older players & gaining more assets.  And they should be trying to get the highest Draft Pick possible not only this year but the following year too.  In doing so they would be building something special & possibly a true Cup contender down the road.  THAT, would make me much more interested in watching the games.   However, I'm not seeing this happening.

[flyer4ever]

How can you not be excited? The first elite level skill in a decade plus has arrived and the neanderthal egomaniacal coach is pulling him right out of a Calder trophy, and a hockey ops that is sticking to the mantra of drafting 14th and praying for a miracle. Again. Still. What's not to be excited about. Lets Go Flyers!

[RonJeremy]

On 1/10/2025 at 11:01 AM, radoran said:

Which Schenn Trade? 2017? The one they got the picks that became Frost and Farabee? That was a mistake?

 

The Luke Schenn trade was a tragic mistake and signature move by Homer 12 years ago. Ditching him and Lecavalier four years later might have been Hextall's best move, were it not for the aforementioned Brayden Schenn trade the next year.

 

Shirley we are not talking about the "won the trades" Schenn trade?

I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue….

 

[RonJeremy]

On 1/10/2025 at 10:21 AM, tucson83 said:

like what made this worse team to begin with, was it the fletcher trades or the schenn trade, carter hart not being here?

The things that made the team worse are …#1 Carter Hart leaving and # 2 the trading of Walker.  It’s quite obvious that although Hart wasn’t a superstar, he was more  skilled, consistent and less injury prone than what we have now. Walker solidified the second pair and elevated Seeler a # 6-7 dman into a second pair guy. Since these things happened ,Seeler as I predicted has played more like a #6 than a #3  as I also predicted Drysdale would be replaced on the second pair by Risto and is now barely a #6 guy. I also said that when Andrae got here Drysdale would lose his job ,which was happening until Torts sent him down. Once Bonk and Andrae are here Drysdale doesn’t have a prayer. I believe he will be traded this summer after the reality sets in that he’s a bust. The last thing that got us to where we are is the fact that Coots is finished as an offensive player and Frost did not improve,he regressed. You cannot expect to compete in the NHL without any legit top pair centers and your wingers play  and your PP suffers without a catalyst to set them up. We are a team with some solid scoring wingers, a couple of goalie prospects three years away ,one potential star and a couple of solid second pair dmen. We have nothing at center and we have no  legit #1 dman ,  no offensive dman  with a big shot to run the PP and we don’t have a top notch shutdown dman either. We do not have highly skilled players at the most important positions which is center and defense.

[RonJeremy]

On 1/10/2025 at 9:45 AM, mkscrewy said:

Positives: Sanheim. Konecny. 
surpises: cates

disappointments: take your pick, but in particular and in order: Farabee, Tippett, frost, drysdale, York. 

can’t say much about the goaltending bc not a whole lot of expectations from 2 Russians who’ve never played in the league before, and another guy who keeps getting hurt. 

I also think Brink and Foerester are positives, they are really coming on. Drysdale and Farabee are the two biggest failures. I wonder how long it will take Danny to admit he lost that trade big time and unload Drysdale. I can’t see him on this team when Bonk and Andrae get here.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The good: Konecny, Michkov, Sanheim, Ristolainen (yeah I said it, he's been very good defensively this year), Cates

 

The bad: Frost, Tippett (I thought he was going to take the next step and become a 40 goal scorer this year) , Farabee, Couturier, Foerster (I thought he was going to take the next step and become a 30 to 35 goal scorer), York

 

The ugly: goaltending, regression is the defense, special teams, management's insistence on a 'competitive' rebuild because they first that tearing things back might take longer for players to get better

 

I didn't put Drysdale or Brink on any of the lists because they really are a work in progress. Not sure if anyone knows this, but Drysdale has been one of the best defensemen advanced stats wise since returning from injury. Still lots of work to do, but for a guy who's never been asked to play defense anywhere he's been, it's going to be a work in progress. As for Brink, he seems to have found a role on the club on that line with Cates. I hope to see a jump in production next year because third year players are usually where the jumps occur.

 

I'm really disappointed overall in just how much this team has regressed. The structure they played with last year is a thing of the past. The defense seems to be out of sorts, minus Sanheim and Ristolainen. This is also a club that continues to give Rocky Thompson a free pass for his horrible power play (and I don't give a **** who says else wise, but a good coach will adapt their system to the personnel they have, which he hasn't) and the penalty kill has fallen in the tank. 

 

And don't get me started on Kim Dillabaugh. He should have been fired long ago and yet they still have him working with the goalies. The worst goaltending in the NHL and they think he's a good coach. 

 

It's Bizarro land in Philadelphia. 

[CoachX]

9 hours ago, Fuzz said:

I would much rather see them do a real rebuild.  To really make an attempt to win a Cup.  But that's not what they are trying to do. 

They should be trading away many of their older players & gaining more assets.  And they should be trying to get the highest Draft Pick possible not only this year but the following year too.  In doing so they would be building something special & possibly a true Cup contender down the road.  THAT, would make me much more interested in watching the games.   However, I'm not seeing this happening.

it used to be that the fans, city and team were symbiotic. And the end result was a passionate fan base equal to none. It's gone. What's left is a business that is more focused on the long term employment history of past players, and just making money. 

 

Rebuild. No rebuild. It makes no difference. I'm not saying your wrong, because you aren't. I just dont think they care anymore in the Flyers front office whether they are actually competitive or not, let alone trying to win a championship. The city belongs to the Eagles and Phillies