Anyone Miss JVR?

[flyercanuck]

@doom88

I didn't see the Pens pushing the Flyers around today. And JVR doesn't exactly conjure up visions of tough when I think of him. Yes, he could be.

[flyercanuck]

he's going to be a much bigger part of the team or he's going to be elsewhere.

Nice post rad. Agree 1000%

[doom88]

@doom88

I didn't see the Pens pushing the Flyers around today. And JVR doesn't exactly conjure up visions of tough when I think of him. Yes, he could be.

He isn't tough, yet, as I still hold out some hope for development. But, I'm just saying from a physics point of view, he is harder to overpower than say Wellwood.

[Vanflyer]

@radoran

Good point about Jagr's impact on Voracek.

On the flip side about the culture in Columbus, it looks as if Jack Johnson has found a home. .5 ppg, a +3 and playing 27-30 minutes a night.

[flyercanuck]

@doom88

I guess it all depends on if JVR feels like playing or not. If it's the usual JVR, he's nowhere near the physical play anyhow. In that scenario, I'd rather have Wellwood in there than JVR avoiding it. On his "blue moon" games, he can go with the best of them.

[AndyS]

@radoran

Good point about Jagr's impact on Voracek.

On the flip side about the culture in Columbus, it looks as if Jack Johnson has found a home. .5 ppg, a +3 and playing 27-30 minutes a night.

I was really hoping that the Flyers might find a way to trade JvR for Jack Johnson.

[Vanflyer]

@AndyS

I really liked Johnson in college and the two WJHC that I saw him play. I haven't watched him much at the pro level, but his numbers in LA have stunned me (particularly that -84). In that vein, I would not have done that trade. Yet it seems that perhaps he may have just needed a change of scenery. If he keeps playing the way he is for Columbus (and the big minutes on the number 1 pairing), then he is a steal at 4.3M until 2018 and I would have done the JVR trade.

Yet, I think its far too early to access which Jack Johnson (the new and improved, or the wildly inconsistent) will prevail. I would need to see a larger body of work before being convinced.

[flyercanuck]

@Vanflyer

Maybe he'd rather be the #1 Jack Johnson in Ohio than the #2 Jack Johnson in California.

[AndyS]

@AndyS

I really liked Johnson in college and the two WJHC that I saw him play. I haven't watched him much at the pro level, but his numbers in LA have stunned me (particularly that -84). In that vein, I would not have done that trade. Yet it seems that perhaps he may have just needed a change of scenery. If he keeps playing the way he is for Columbus (and the big minutes on the number 1 pairing), then he is a steal at 4.3M until 2018 and I would have done the JVR trade.

Yet, I think its far too early to access which Jack Johnson (the new and improved, or the wildly inconsistent) will prevail. I would need to see a larger body of work before being convinced.

For whatever reason, the FO in LA seemed determined to undermine the kid. I don't remember if it was Lombardi or not (pretty sure it was), but he was quoted as talking smack about Michigan players not knowing how to play defense.

He's good on the PP and he hits. I think he is going to be a really good d-man in this league for a long time.

[Vanflyer]

@flyercanuck

He is scoring at .61 points per game (50 points over a full season) and is a plus player for the first time in his career (well plus at least in Columbus). If he can continue that level of play while with the big minutes, he may have to thank Jeff Carter for saving his career (send him some corvacier (sp) and a box of condoms).

[flyercanuck]

@Vanflyer

Ya, but he'll never have a bigger hit than "Better Together".

[Vanflyer]

@AndyS-

But you do have to admit, he was wildly inconsistent in LA.

[flyercanuck]

Mods, can you ban VF for derailing my JVR thread. I ALWAYS stay on topic!

[OccamsRazor]

JVR has been out for half the season. He has played a fairly vanilla game (aside from his performance last postseason and a handful of shifts in a handful of games) for the first 3 years of his career. He has shown us a taste of what he's capable of when he puts his mind to it, but for the most part, at least IMO, he leaves a lot to be desired. The guy has skill, speed and size. He just doesn't seem to have a hockey brain. What I mean is, he doesn't seem to go hard very often. Doesn't want to get dirty.

So over the last half of the season, have you missed JVR from the team? Giroux has stepped up big time. Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Read, Hartnell, Jagr, Talbot have all done all you could ask for and more. Schenn is a work in progress (and I know JVR is too) that seems to be coming around. And Schenn certainly doesn't lack in effort. Wellwood is really catching my eye as a guy I'd thought would take longer to be NHL ready, and Rinaldo has been neutered in a good way. Briere we all hope is going to break out in the playoffs, but his best days are likely behind him.

JVR spent the first half of the season as he's spent most of his career. For most of his shifts, you didn't even know he was on the ice. He's been hurt but honestly, I don't see much difference in his game when he's NOT playing. I know this guy has a huge upside.(he was on pace to increase his point total yet again) I know if we traded him, he may just reach it. But looking at the roster we have right now, with all those young guys, does this make JVR expendable before that 6 year contract kicks in? (of course this may not look good on Holmgren, but if it improves the team...) Or do you think it ends up being a worthwhile contract? He's still got a lot of value as a 2nd overall pick. Alone, or in a package he could bring in a valuable asset. Or is he worth more just to keep? Cause honestly, I'm not missing this guy one bit at this point, and I've never really wanted to trade him before. But with all the offence this team has, if we could package him with a Dman for a better one

That is why Homer should look into moving him for a high pick and/or a prospect in this years draft, sorry i'm a blue collar worker and i'm just not ready to hand this kid 4.25 mill yet...

....especially from what i've seen.

To earn my pay raises i have to earn mine through good reviews on my job. My boss does not hand me money based on my "potential"....it's what i've proved to be able to do on my job....not what i "may" do...why should athletes be any different????

Of course all this would change if healthy JVR is also angry JVR.

[doom88]

Angry JVR (and angry Coburn) is awesome. I wish either of them could channel that intensity night in night out.

[orange_crush]

JVR has been out for half the season. He has played a fairly vanilla game (aside from his performance last postseason and a handful of shifts in a handful of games) for the first 3 years of his career. He has shown us a taste of what he's capable of when he puts his mind to it, but for the most part, at least IMO, he leaves a lot to be desired. The guy has skill, speed and size. He just doesn't seem to have a hockey brain. What I mean is, he doesn't seem to go hard very often. Doesn't want to get dirty.

So over the last half of the season, have you missed JVR from the team? Giroux has stepped up big time. Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Read, Hartnell, Jagr, Talbot have all done all you could ask for and more. Schenn is a work in progress (and I know JVR is too) that seems to be coming around. And Schenn certainly doesn't lack in effort. Wellwood is really catching my eye as a guy I'd thought would take longer to be NHL ready, and Rinaldo has been neutered in a good way. Briere we all hope is going to break out in the playoffs, but his best days are likely behind him.

JVR spent the first half of the season as he's spent most of his career. For most of his shifts, you didn't even know he was on the ice. He's been hurt but honestly, I don't see much difference in his game when he's NOT playing. I know this guy has a huge upside.(he was on pace to increase his point total yet again) I know if we traded him, he may just reach it. But looking at the roster we have right now, with all those young guys, does this make JVR expendable before that 6 year contract kicks in? (of course this may not look good on Holmgren, but if it improves the team...) Or do you think it ends up being a worthwhile contract? He's still got a lot of value as a 2nd overall pick. Alone, or in a package he could bring in a valuable asset. Or is he worth more just to keep? Cause honestly, I'm not missing this guy one bit at this point, and I've never really wanted to trade him before. But with all the offence this team has, if we could package him with a Dman for a better one, I'm in.

Of course all this would change if healthy JVR is also angry JVR.

considering the amount of depth we have at forward, I was in favor of trading JVR before he broke his foot, even when he comes back he's going to have a hard time cracking this lineup unless he starts playing at a high level again..

[terp]

Angry JVR (and angry Coburn) is awesome. I wish either of them could channel that intensity night in night out.

Good rationale for hanging onto JvR. Coburn used to get hit on here all the time for his lack of "truculence" and look at him now: a mainstay, shut down defenseman who plays with edge. Sometimes it takes time to learn your place and then to value your place enough to fight for it.

[flyercanuck]

considering the amount of depth we have at forward, I was in favor of trading JVR before he broke his foot, even when he comes back he's going to have a hard time cracking this lineup unless he starts playing at a high level again..

Maybe it motivates him to play with the same intensity the rest of his teammates have.

[flyercanuck]

Good rationale for hanging onto JvR. Coburn used to get hit on here all the time for his lack of "truculence" and look at him now: a mainstay, shut down defenseman who plays with edge. Sometimes it takes time to learn your place and then to value your place enough to fight for it.

Please refrain from using the term 'truculence" unless mocking Leaf Nation.

[Podein25]

Maybe it motivates him to play with the same intensity the rest of his teammates have.

Despite all the negative vibe with JVR, I still feel there is no reason to assume that he can't get back to where he was last year in the POs. He was easily our best player. He did it once, he can do it again (if he wants to).

[terp]

Please refrain from using the term 'truculence" unless mocking Leaf Nation.

"Truculence" is one of my favorite words. Brian Burke turned me onto it and I think it's a great word to slip into pep talks a few times to get the guys revved up ("Get out there and go truculent on their arses!!" or "We need to raise our truculence level against these guys!!").

My use of the word was in fact a Burke reference, for sport. I believe he used it when he first joined the organization to describe the future character of his team. Looks like the "truculent" experiment has been a flop, perhaps because the players didn't know what Burke was talking about.

Edited April 2, 2012 by terp

[canoli]

He was easily our best player. He did it once, he can do it again (if he wants to).

I don't disagree with this but I feel it's only right to point out - "best player" yes but compared to what? compared to who? Richards and Co. were a beaten, nothing-left-but-the-paycheck team by the time the POs started. Yeah they rallied to beat Buff in the deciding G7 but it took everything they had, then they promptly shut it down again when Boston came to town. Embarrassing - that's the only word for that 2nd round. JVR stood out as the only guy skating with a purpose, and he potted a few goals. But I saw nothing close to that this year except 1 game, just before he got hurt. Can he play like he did last April? Obviously he can. Will he, ever again? Hell if I know. But I resent having to wait around for him to "show up." Too many other guys are busting their humps night in night out. JVR better fit in and do the same ASAP or I say lose him. For anything reasonable.

[flyercanuck]

Despite all the negative vibe with JVR, I still feel there is no reason to assume that he can't get back to where he was last year in the POs. He was easily our best player. He did it once, he can do it again (if he wants to).

I agree. I just wish he'd "want" to more often.

[flyercanuck]

"Truculence" is one of my favorite words. Brian Burke turned me onto it and I think it's a great word to slip into pep talks a few times to get the guys revved up ("Get out there and go truculent on their arses!!" or "We need to raise our truculence level against these guys!!").

My use of the word was in fact a Burke reference, for sport. I believe he used it when he first joined the organization to describe the future character of his team. Looks like the "truculent" experiment has been a flop, perhaps because the players didn't know what Burke was talking about.

The sad part is, Burke picked those players. To be truculent! LMFAO!

[canoli]

Right. And that brings up the question, how many games are you willing to tolerate - at $4.25 cap hit - of Mr. Invisible JVR? The early returns aren't good - I'd say about 72 games / season he's invisible, and a handful where you say "Hey that guy's pretty good." And then there's last year's POs where he actually stood out as the best player on the ice for many of those games.

Let's face it he's not the type to "want it" more often than is necessary. Just enough to earn the big payday and play in the NHL. Well that's how he strikes me anyway.