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Couturier, Voracek, and Carter


Guest OH1FlyersFan
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I'm pretty happy with how this trade is going.

This is as of December 3. I'm really, really glad we traded both those guys - if for no other reason Voracek and Couturier have been healthy. Look at the stats so far. This doesn't include tonight's Flyers game against PHX.

Carter - 15 games played, 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points, -1 +/-, 51 SOG, 5.9 %

Voracek - 24 games played, 4 goals, 12 assists, 16 points, 4 +/-, 47 SOG, 8.5%

Couterier - 24 games played, 5 goals, 3 assists, 8 points, 8 +/-, 37 SOG, 13.5%

Here's what the Columbus Dispatch had to say about Carter just yesterday.....no surprise, out injured again.

"-- C Jeff Carter missed the game with a sprained left ankle suffered in the latter stages of Thursday's 4-3 shootout win in Calgary. Arniel said Carter is day-to-day, that he could play Tuesday in Montreal."

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Lets face it... Both trades were made for the future. It'll be at least 4 or 5 years before we know exactly what we have in Schenn and Couturier It's just so weird to go this route when you have Pronger, Timonen, Briere, Jagr etc. But as of today, ya, I'd say the Carter deal is a win, and the Richards is a loss. They may both end up being good for both teams.

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Lets face it... Both trades were made for the future. It'll be at least 4 or 5 years before we know exactly what we have in Schenn and Couturier It's just so weird to go this route when you have Pronger, Timonen, Briere, Jagr etc. But as of today, ya, I'd say the Carter deal is a win, and the Richards is a loss. They may both end up being good for both teams.

Totally agree.. Just to clarify, I meant that in the same vein as you, that as of right now, the Carter deal is a win and Richards deal a loss. Of course, these deals go beyond statistics, and Richards was just plain done in O&B, so not sure he would have been as good or a positive influence here.

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I agree with both of you too. I think the Richards trade could eventually pay off. Or the combination of Couturier and Schenn could pay off more than Voracek and Simmonds. A blending of the two trades, but still good for the Flyers. Schenn hasn't added much yet this season, but I think he's definitely capable given time.

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IMO, if Schenn and Couturier don't end up being the best players on our side of the deal, I'm not too happy about them. Voracek and Simmonds still have some development ahead of them, but I think we're basically seeing what they will be.

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" Voracek and Simmonds still have some development ahead of them, but I think we're basically seeing what they will be." I disagree regarding Vorachek, he has a lot of development ahead of him and has lots of growth room. Remember he is only 22 years old and was a 7th overall draft choice in 07. He is young and has a good mix of size and skill. If he continues to work on his game he will be a solid 1st line player. As for Simmonds he has the size and heart with a decent blend of skill, but I agree I don't see him making any huge strides in development.

Either way, I'm happy to have them both on the Flyers!

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Schen is going be fine soon he played like 5-10 games straight. He needs to play for big club more and more minutes. You can see during Phoenix games the puck is looking for him, so it's a good sign.

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I'm just glad Mr.No show in the playoffs is gone. The fact that the Blue Jackets will not sniff the playoffs for years will barely affect Jeff's playoff stats....lol. Will never ever forgive him for that missed open net in last years playoffs. Winners bury that, losers miss the net and watch their team falter. Couts will be ten times the player that Carter is....just based on hockey sense alone. In the present, Voracek just might outscore Carter straight up this season...win, win, win. I don't want to spend cap space on guys that are regular season wonders.

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Voracek and Simmonds still have some development ahead of them, but I think we're basically seeing what they will be

I think they will both be considerably better than they are now, being 22 and 23 respectively. But mainly by being more consistent. And more complete players.

Especially Voracek. I would resign Jagr already for next year and have him spend as much time with Jake as possible, preferably with a puck. Even if a little bit rubs off, it's gonna help Jake enormously IMO. I don't think he'll ever be a sniper though. He has very little scoring knack.

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I guess I didn't convey that quite the way I wanted.. When I said we are seeing what they will be, I meant Voracek as a talented setup guy with little finish and Simmonds as a physical 3rd liner who can fill in on the 2nd. Both are young enough that this isn't the finished product yet, and that was what I meant when I said they still had development ahead.

Edited by flyercanuck
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Kings scored huge on the Richards trade. Simmonds is nothing special and schenn appears to be easily injured. Though Richards is out and might have a concussion. Guess it is kind of a wash/flyers win since at least the flyers have one of those players playing.

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Kings scored huge on the Richards trade. Simmonds is nothing special and schenn appears to be easily injured. Though Richards is out and might have a concussion. Guess it is kind of a wash/flyers win since at least the flyers have one of those players playing.

I'm gonna go ahead and opine that 25 games into the first season of a trade is an awful place to try to evaluate it.

Suppose, God forbid, Richards never plays another game for the Kings because of concussion. Did the Kings still come out "huge"?

Suppose Schenn turns into a 40/40 center in the next 3-4 years. Did the Kings still come out "huge"?

We also don't know what that No. 2 turns into. While a crapshoot to be sure, there are some high quality players who came out of the second round.

If anything, I think the trade is a bit of a wash on both sides at the moment. The Flyers (apparently) had to shake up the room (again) before being locked into long term contracts with NTCs. The Kings got a solid player who is playing the role he probably should have kept in Philly for a while longer.

Both teams could end up coming out "huge" on that deal. After 1/4 of a season, yes, the Kings have gotten more immediate impact on the scoresheet but we likely don't know the full impact the trade had on the Flyers off the scoresheet...

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Both trades were definately made with the future in mind from a Flyers point of view. Schenn does project to be somewhere near those stats rad, though that doesn't mean squat until he does. But trying to put a "win" on this trade now would be like the Leafs proclaiming "win" on the Kessel deal when all 3 players they gave up are still teenagers (although one is already one of the best players in the NHL and the defenceman they basically dealt is huge and one of the leading junior scorers in the world). Our big pieces were Schenn and Couturier, hopefully, not Voracek and Simmonds. If it turns out the latter, we lost bigtime.

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I'm gonna go ahead and opine that 25 games into the first season of a trade is an awful place to try to evaluate it.

Suppose, God forbid, Richards never plays another game for the Kings because of concussion. Did the Kings still come out "huge"?

Suppose Schenn turns into a 40/40 center in the next 3-4 years. Did the Kings still come out "huge"?

We also don't know what that No. 2 turns into. While a crapshoot to be sure, there are some high quality players who came out of the second round.

If anything, I think the trade is a bit of a wash on both sides at the moment. The Flyers (apparently) had to shake up the room (again) before being locked into long term contracts with NTCs. The Kings got a solid player who is playing the role he probably should have kept in Philly for a while longer.

Both teams could end up coming out "huge" on that deal. After 1/4 of a season, yes, the Kings have gotten more immediate impact on the scoresheet but we likely don't know the full impact the trade had on the Flyers off the scoresheet...

Guess it is kind of a wash/flyers win since at least the flyers have one of those players playing.

The flyers had to trade Richards though, as it was clear there were issues. If it improves the chemistry of the team, the flyers will be winners for that alone.

Edited by Flyguys03
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Both trades were definately made with the future in mind from a Flyers point of view.

That's what I thought, too. But the more and more I look at it, the more it seems the Flyers were just compulsive and desperate trying to rid themselves of these two guys. And I really think the decision had to do with more the off-site issues than on-site. As inconsistent as Carter was, hardly anybody can argue the guy knows how to score. Yes, his playoff perfrormance has a lot to be deisred, but that along wasn't enough to ship him out of town. And Richards is Richards - a great two-way player who, when healthy, is effective in many areas of the game.

But from everything I read and heard, Snider had enough and reached the point where he simply couldn't stand both, especially Richards. He was apparently behind getting rid of both. So at that point the FLyers found themsleves sort of in the bind. They commited to get rid of them both in the last summer and didn't have much time to open a bidding war for each player. I really feel like Holmgren's plan was just to get the best he could for them in a limited time frame so he could free up huge money to sign Bryzgalov...

But in factuality, each trade *appears* to have been done for the future in mind, when you looked at what we got back. But I don't know if it was by design or it's just happened that what other teams were offering was sh!t and Homer took the best deals that were on the table knowing he was running out of time and need ot pull the trigger quickly.

Edited by Mad Dog
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