JackStraw Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) The thing you have to remember is what era that took place.the league was full of goons and hatchet men, bench clearing brawls and goalie fightsThere were fewer "goons" back then than there are now. Dave Schultz scored 20 goals in one season. There are guys in the NHL now that will never score 20 goals in their entire career. You had to at least be a passable hockey player then. And there are probably as many generally dirty players now as there were then too. Bench clearing brawls? Ok, yeah. There were more back then but I don't see what that has to do with Clarke or Crosby being dirty players. Oh and by the way, Briere is probably as a dirty a player as Crosby. Edited April 5, 2012 by JackStraw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 And you want to compare that with Crosby? They guy whined too much as an 18 year old rookie and "maybe" the following year. Wow. Tar and feather him. 15 years from now that will still be following him.Michel Therrien says hello............oh wait..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 @peter puck<< OV was wrong to skip the dog and pony show he got the suspension he deserved. he shouldnt have been there based on his play at the timeeven though it was the allstar game and hes a "star " >>Um...that's my point. Someone mentioned "You never see OV acting like this yadda yadda yadda...." This was an example of OV pouting.<< Im sure there was some goings on in the Pens lockerroom when M.T. was fired and Sid was the captain,not every team airs out their dirty laundry. That team decided they didnt like coach and layed down on him.Some say it was his style but it damn sure worked the year before. >>That would be news if there was. Everything I read had Therien being fired for the team's performance and his style...more stifling and less up tempo. It was pretty much out there about Boudreau and why he was fired. Nice try.<< Whining as an 18 and maybe a 19 year old what have you been watching? He hasnt gotten his whinig and diving reputation on a Flyers chat room. >>No. He got it as an 18-19 year old and it's stuck even though those antics have been significantly curtailed these last few years. Sure it's another reason for you to dislike him but not really a legitimate one anymore.I love how Crosby gets killed for the occasional dive when beloved Flyer Bill Barber invented it. If you were around back then I am sure you would have had nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo problem with it.<< 9 out of 10 plays argue the call when they go to the box do they get labeled as whiners? No. Sid is constantly whining in every situation even though he admits and his stats prove he commits his fair share and we all know he gets away with just as much as the next player.If Giroux, Ovie and the other stars acted that way wouldnt they be labeled too? >>So if 9 out of 10 players (that's a lot) complain on their way to the box, why aren't there more "whiners" in the league? Why is Crosby the only "whiner"? You make my argument again. And if you think OV doesn't whine then you don't watch enough of him.<< Asked yourself this if that was Sids face being drove into the ice while the player ignored the refs would the penalty call and the presser be different? Even the annoucers said there should have been some stiffer penalty called. Sid, Mario, Bylsma, Shero the league and every hockey related show would be all over it calling for suspesions and fines. >>This again? Really? You want a suspension for that then I want one for Hartnell punching a guy while he was down. Fair is fair, right? If you want to play that way, tell my Hartnell wasn't suspended for this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrV3WnJPGNkPunches to the back of the head. Repeatedly. Funny I don't recall any complaining about that. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Michel Therrien says hello............oh wait.....Wrong. Everything I read had Therien being fired for the team's performance and his style...more stifling and less up tempo. It was pretty much out there about Boudreau and why he was fired. Nice try though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Anybody have any updates on Briere and Grossman? That is what this thread is about, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Anybody have any updates on Briere and Grossman? That is what this thread is about, right?Sorry it's about Sydney Crosby and why we all love him soooo much !Sorry I cannot access the sarcasm font...Last I heard Grossman was day to day, and Daniel's back was spasming on wednesday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I love how Crosby gets killed for the occasional dive when beloved Flyer Bill Barber invented itPerfected maybe, but not invented... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter puck Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 There were fewer "goons" back then than there are now. Dave Schultz scored 20 goals in one season. There are guys in the NHL now that will never score 20 goals in their entire career. You had to at least be a passable hockey player then. And there are probably as many generally dirty players now as there were then too. Bench clearing brawls? Ok, yeah. There were more back then but I don't see what that has to do with Clarke or Crosby being dirty players. Oh and by the way, Briere is probably as a dirty a player as Crosby.Fewer "goons if you mean five minute men etal shelley. Your talking about a league that had only 18 teams compared to 30. It only goes to reason you had to be a good player to make the "show".If the league was to go back to 18 teams today how many third liners playing now would be fourth liners or not even in the league? Oh how different the game would be 20 plus fourth line goal scorers. The point i was trying to make was you cant compare players from different era the game has changed. For instance players train year round now equpment ,rule changes and game stratedgy. Dave Schultz scored 20 g 16a and had 348 pims. the next year he had 9g 17a and 472 pims.In todays league i dare say they would be calling him a goon. oh and by the way, Briere is probably as dirty a player as Crosby-I agree but what does that have to do with Clarke? I never called Sid a dirty player i believe it was an incredibly talented player is what i called him and in other posts a diver and whiner. But i did say Clarke was a vicious hatchet man and Barber a diver Enough said we have derailed this thread to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Wrong. Everything I read had Therien being fired for the team's performance and his style...more stifling and less up tempo. It was pretty much out there about Boudreau and why he was fired. Nice try though. Therrien was fired because Crosby's Kids did not like him and submarined him. Therrien was not the worshipping kind and Wittle Sidney did not like it. You are telling me that with the talent on that team, they could not win games? Please..........Therrien got fired for the same reason that Barber/Stevens got fired...the team would not play for him. Funny how that same team got it together the minute he went out the door...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Fewer "goons if you mean five minute men etal shelley. Your talking about a league that had only 18 teams compared to 30. It only goes to reason you had to be a good player to make the "show".If the league was to go back to 18 teams today how many third liners playing now would be fourth liners or not even in the league? Oh how different the game would be 20 plus fourth line goal scorers. The point i was trying to make was you cant compare players from different era the game has changed. For instance players train year round now equpment ,rule changes and game stratedgy. Dave Schultz scored 20 g 16a and had 348 pims. the next year he had 9g 17a and 472 pims.In todays league i dare say they would be calling him a goon. oh and by the way, Briere is probably as dirty a player as Crosby-I agree but what does that have to do with Clarke? I never called Sid a dirty player i believe it was an incredibly talented player is what i called him and in other posts a diver and whiner. But i did say Clarke was a vicious hatchet man and Barber a diver Enough said we have derailed this thread to death. I don't know what your point is then. Clarke was a dirty player. By the standards of the time that he played. Most players at that time were not as dirty as he was. I didn't have a problem with it then, and I don't have a real problem with it now. Crosby is a great player, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Crosby is a great player, period.Oh my God, ****** reported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Oh my God, ****** reportedhaha... too late. I reported myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 It seems the Flyers are not alone in their opinions of Crosby and Malkin........LMAOhttp://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=626165 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terp Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 @terpok, we can agree there. Crosby has a higher PIM per game average than both of them.marchand - .924 neal - .85crosby - .928subjective again?I was referring to their totals for this season but please feel free to throw around any comparisons or statistics that pop into your head. They won't alter the fact the whole discussion boils down to whether or not you believe there is bias. You say no, others say yes. You say you have statistical support for your opinion, but this amounts to simply claiming Crosby receives no preferential treatment (his penalty minutes, "just right"). This is no more compelling than claiming the opposite. Well, maybe less compelling because a very wide swath of fans think he gets away with way more than most players. In any case, all of us are relying on our opinions, not figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Therrien was fired because Crosby's Kids did not like him and submarined him. Therrien was not the worshipping kind and Wittle Sidney did not like it. You are telling me that with the talent on that team, they could not win games? Please..........Therrien got fired for the same reason that Barber/Stevens got fired...the team would not play for him. Funny how that same team got it together the minute he went out the door......You could not be more incorrect. And a lot of hockey experts argued that the team's turnaround, while coinciding with the coaching change, was even more due to the return of Gonchar who had been out all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 You could not be more incorrect. And a lot of hockey experts argued that the team's turnaround, while coinciding with the coaching change, was even more due to the return of Gonchar who had been out all season.Yeah sure, Gonchar is a franchise guy that they built the team around............go easy on the smoke you are trying to blow up my a$$.....The team's turn around was based on them actually playing up to their collective abilities which even if I don't like I have to respect. The Pens are a highly skilled team, most of them conceited a$$holes, but skilled a$$holes none the less.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Yeah sure, Gonchar is a franchise guy that they built the team around............go easy on the smoke you are trying to blow up my a$$.....The team's turn around was based on them actually playing up to their collective abilities which even if I don't like I have to respect. The Pens are a highly skilled team, most of them conceited a$$holes, but skilled a$$holes none the less....Nice spin. I'm not that only person who thought Gonchar's return was a big reason for the turnaround. It's no secret the Pens need that offensive minded puck-moving d-man to really make things click. Look at what happened when Letang was out this year. Of course the change was a reason as well but this was not some captain-led coup against the coach like it was in Washington. The Caps are a highly skilled team, too. How did the coaching change work for them? They continued to underperform and barely snuck into the playoffshttp://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/11/03/boudreau-sends-ovechkin-caps-message/Don't recall anything like that happening before Therien was fired. I know you WANT that to be the case so you can point at the Pens/Crosby and say "Ha ha ha" but it just ain't true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 http://www.foxnews.c...n-caps-message/What does that have to do with your Pens quitting on Therrien? You can "believe" that Gonchar is superman if you like but it does not fit. He would at best be tripping over the cape you are trying to put on his shoulders.......funny how he was not enough to put them over the top in 07/08 but playing less games in 08/09 he was the difference.....sorry, no sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 What does that have to do with your Pens quitting on Therrien? You can "believe" that Gonchar is superman if you like but it does not fit. He would at best be tripping over the cape you are trying to put on his shoulders.......funny how he was not enough to put them over the top in 07/08 but playing less games in 08/09 he was the difference.....sorry, no sale.I don't believe Gonchar is "Superman". Not that it matters...the point was that it's inaccurate to compare the Therien firing to Bodreau. For some reason you brought up the performance of the Pens after the move to make your case.Bottom line....one coach was feuding with a pouting star. One wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 What does that have to do with your Pens quitting on Therrien? You can "believe" that Gonchar is superman if you like but it does not fit. He would at best be tripping over the cape you are trying to put on his shoulders.......funny how he was not enough to put them over the top in 07/08 but playing less games in 08/09 he was the difference.....sorry, no sale.Oh - and no one "quit" on Therien. Keep trying. If you throw enough shots up against the wall something is bound to stick. Maybe you can pin the war in Iraq on the Pens, Malkin and Crosby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Therrien got fired for the same reason that Barber/Stevens got fired...the team would not play for himI believe that was the first post where i tied players sacking their coach.....I don't recall ever saying anything about Boudreau although i would put him in the same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Oh - and no one "quit" on Therien. Keep trying. If you throw enough shots up against the wall something is bound to stick. Maybe you can pin the war in Iraq on the Pens, Malkin and Crosby?Welcome to the board Kuato......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Welcome to the board Kuato.........LOL. I take it you agree then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) I don't believe Gonchar is "Superman". Not that it matters...the point was that it's inaccurate to compare the Therien firing to Bodreau. For some reason you brought up the performance of the Pens after the move to make your case.Bottom line....one coach was feuding with a pouting star. One wasn't.Fwiw, I agree. Getting Gonchar back that season made a huge difference. At that time he was pretty much the only D they had who could generate any offense and run their PP. That said, I don't think Therien was a particularly good coach. Edited April 6, 2012 by JackStraw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Fwiw, I agree. Getting Gonchar back that season made a huge difference. At that time he was pretty much the only D they had who could generate any offense and run their PP.Thanks for being an objective one. It's refreshing when that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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