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Old time ref NHL Kerry Fraser on the Pens meltdown


Guest Phlyer1

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good stuff....seems like the refs really screwed up.

Sounds like Frazier would have penalized Crosby immediately as soon as he was whacking away at Bryz. Says "V" would have joined him too. If that happens then the other stuff never occurs.

Says Asham should be suspended and he would have penalized Neal immediately as soon as he hit Coots. He never would have given Neal a chance to get at Giroux.

Good Interview....thanks for posting

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@DGG

how do we make this happen...I'm all for it.

Frazier also hit the nail on the head...the refs have to be prepared for anything and they have to understand the ebb and flow of the game. Sounds like todays refs don't have a clue.

Edited by pilldoc
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This came up a little while ago. I don't understand why they DON'T have a former ref in that position.

A ref has no bias stemming from former team loyalties.

A ref understands the rulebook and how the game is called.

One of the older refs also (in general) knows how to keep a game from getting out of control, and should be able to stay fairly consistant in applying the rules and handing down punishments to prevent the league from getting out of control.

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@DGG

how do we make this happen...I'm all for it.

Frazier also hit the nail on the head...the refs have to be prepared for anything and they have to understand the ebb and flow of the game. Sounds like todays refs don't have a clue.

Seen in a couple places that a lot of the older refs like Frasier are retiring, and the younger guys don't have the experience. You'd think they would by now, but honestly, I don't recognize guys anymore when I hear their names.

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Seen in a couple places that a lot of the older refs like Frasier are retiring, and the younger guys don't have the experience. You'd think they would by now, but honestly, I don't recognize guys anymore when I hear their names.

Oh I recognize a few of them....Divorski...Auger...just to name 2.......of THE WORST.REFS.EVER.

We had a thread going about this a while back and 2 of the main names that came up were Fraser and Scapinello. Both have the respect of player and coaches alike and would be better served to run the disciplinary actions better than Shanahan.

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@Phlyer1

Is Walkum still in charge? I know he's back on the ice refereeing games this year, but I'm not sure if he's still the supervisor.

I too have seen him back on the ice but I never saw where he was relieved from the top job. Will try to find out.
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Fire Shannhan....make Frazer the new discipline czar.

The league couldnt afford the hair and make-up crew for his video summaries of disciplinary decisions. Do you know how much it costs to get his hair that perfect!!

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Here is the "C'mon Ref" article from Fraser.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=393346

Kerry,

Can you explain the lack of a penalty to James Neal in the third period of Sunday's game? His hit was late, he left his feet and targeted the player's head.

Also, why no unsportsmanlike penalty to Sidney Crosby for shooting Jakub Voracek's glove away as he bent to pick it up?

Thanks,

Andrew

Reading, PA

-----

Hi Kerry,

I have a question in regards to James Neal's charging penalty at 15:18 of the third period in the third game of the series. It's not in regards to the legality of the hit but the way he was penalized. It appeared to me by re-watching it and seeing clips that neither official put their hands up or called a penalty, nor blew it dead after the play when Pittsburgh touched the puck. It was not until after the scrum had ensued and Neal was on the bench that they issued the penalty. Also, they gave no explanation nor could see any reason why he would have gotten a 10-minute misconduct.

Thank you,

Jason Neal

Nanaimo, BC

Andrew and Jason:

I will get to the specifics of your questions in a moment. First I need to point out how Game 3 unraveled early in the City of Brotherly Love beyond attributing it solely to playoff intensity and "hatred" that has developed between opposing players.

In post-game comments, Sidney Crosby said he swatted Jakub Voracek's glove away because, "I hate him; I hate all those guys," in reference to the Philadelphia Flyer players.

The disrespect Sid demonstrated to a piece of Flyers equipment at 12:02 of the first period resulted in a fight he engaged in with Claude Giroux and set a secondary bout in motion between Kimmo Timonen and Kris Letang that led to their automatic ejection from the game.

The main event (video link) might have started when Sid knocked Jake's glove away, but the preliminary bout happened a minute or so earlier when Crosby chopped at another Flyer player's glove (at 1:08 of this video) and wasn't penalized for it.

The absence of a swift and firm response by the referees to Sidney Crosby's repeated slash to the glove hand of Flyers goalie Ilya Bryzgalov prior to the fisticuffs became an officiating turning point in the game. This spark ignited the ever-present combustible fuel that exists when these two teams meet and caused player hostilities to boil over and continue throughout most of the game. The officials had to continually battle back from this early incident in an

attempt to exert and maintain control.

Every game has an ebb and flow; a heartbeat and a temperature that rises and falls throughout. This is especially true in a playoff series when player aggression and "hatred" (perceived or stated) escalates. It is incumbent upon the referees to know when to impose themselves to control the temperature of the game through appropriate application of the rules. The "when" and "how" results from an acute feel for the game.

Action in an around the goal crease, contact with the goalie and dangerous or high hits are always "hot spots" that draw a crowd resulting in scrums and should always be high on the ref's radar screen.

Once Crosby swatted at the glove hand of Bryzgalov as the play was blown dead, Voracek led the cavalry charge and wrestled with Crosby. This was the perfect opportunity for the referee(s) to impose themselves and establish game control. A swift and forceful reaction by the referee behind the goal line to impose a slashing and roughing minor to Crosby in addition to a roughing minor to the Flyers' Voracek would have ended the incident in this moment. The linesmen would have escorted the two players to the penalty box swiftly and nothing further would have developed at that point and time. A Flyers power play would have also sent an early message to avoid contact with the goalkeepers at both ends of the ice.

Due to a lack of response by the referees on this initial incident, tornados of player hostility were allowed to spawn elsewhere which resulted in two fights and game ejections to key players from both teams a minute or two later. The stage was set and the match was lit for what followed.

A swift and correct penalty assessment was imposed by the referee on Brayden Schenn's charge and Arron Asham's match penalty that followed. There is no question a suspension will result for Asham. The only question will be how many games?

Andrew and Jason, you have asked about the late, high hit that James Neal threw on Claude Giroux. I am going to back up a shift or two and provide you with another game temperature check. This one occurred when Neal left his feet and leveled Sean Couturier as the Flyer was turning in the neutral zone without the puck and unaware of impending contact.

The fact James Neal left his feet and moved slightly right into Couturier prior to impact eliminates any free pass I might have given the Pens star that this was just an accidental collision. James Neal saw Sean Couturier on the road ahead and in his lane. This should have been identified as interference or charging and James Neal placed in the penalty box. Player hostilities intensified on the Flyers bench as Couturier was lifted from the ice and helped to the dressing room.

James Neal subsequently tracked Claude Giroux from behind and delivered a high open ice hit that threw gasoline on a fire that was already burning. Giroux stumbled like a wounded deer following the contact. There was no apparent response by the referees as you suggest on this play to identify the infraction and in an attempt to bring the temperature down. The players then took matters into their own hands.

Jakub Voracek once again led the charge and was the first to chase James Neal to the Pittsburgh players' bench followed closely by Scott Hartnell and Wayne Simmonds. Crosby grabbed Hartnell from behind and the captain's involvement became the catalyst for Craig Adams to unload on the back of Hartnell's head.

James Neal was already on the Pittsburgh bench when the scrum ensued. The Flyers players were attempting to get at him in retaliation. Once the dust settled a discussion between all the officials resulted to sort out the penalties. Hindsight being 20-20, it was likely determined that a charging penalty needed to be assessed to James Neal as the cause of the altercation.

The additional 10-minute misconduct assessed to James Neal on this exchange demonstrates the "pro-active" measures that a referee(s) should take to bring the temperature down or at least remove the pot from the stove.

This was wise decision on the part of the Officials even if it came at 15:18 of the third period. My advice to the refs in all the playoff games is to have their thermometers ready following the opening puck drop and to take the game temperature frequently.

It is the best measuring devise they can utilize to keep the "hate" from boiling over.

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Wow. Love the detailed writeup there by Fraser. I disagree that the Schenn hit was a charge, but if you're trying to douse a spark, as he's suggesting, I'd at least listen to that rationale. I'd hate it in game, but if the ref were to come up to me and say, "Look, it was borderline, but I gotta take your guy too or else this whole thing might explode..." I very well might accept it.

Bill McCreary is another one that I always thought was fair. He's retired too.

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Fraser sure is into thermometers and taking people's temperatures! I wonder if he was nurse in another lifetime.

Speaking of thermometers, does anyone know how to tell the difference between an oral and a rectal thermometer?

Edited by TedZep
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Kerry Fraser said:

Once Crosby swatted at the glove hand of Bryzgalov as the play was blown dead, Voracek led the cavalry charge and wrestled with Crosby. This was the perfect opportunity for the referee(s) to impose themselves and establish game control. A swift and forceful reaction by the referee behind the goal line to impose a slashing and roughing minor to Crosby in addition to a roughing minor to the Flyers' Voracek would have ended the incident in this moment. The linesmen would have escorted the two players to the penalty box swiftly and nothing further would have developed at that point and time. A Flyers power play would have also sent an early message to avoid contact with the goalkeepers at both ends of the ice.

That's the key, and it holds true at all levels.

My son is a Peewee defenseman, and a lot of his games are called loosely because the refs think "Hey, it's AA... we'll let the kids play." But the same thing happens nearly every game:

1. Our goalie freezes the puck

2. No whistle

3. Opposing forwards hack at the goalie (not their fault... they're doing their job by playing hard to the whistle)

4. Our D "protects the goalie"

5. Mutual pushing and shoving

6. Repeat and escalate.

By the end of some games, we've degenerated into head shots, cross checks, and boarding.

All avoidable if referees (as Fraser says) have their thermometers ready following the opening puck drop and to take the game temperature frequently. Before most games, I quietly remind them to blow the whistle as soon as the puck is frozen and call it tight in the first period, and warn them about what might happen if they don't.

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I could be wrong, but I thought Fraser was more or less told to pursue other interests. It appeared there were some, Walkom or whomever; that did not agree with his style. Not to mention, in Toronto they still talk about the non-call on Gretzky that was likely the genesis for establishing two officials, or at least what began to lead the league that way. Same with a few of the others out there.

What the NHL needs to do is explain, post-game, calls like this -- perhaps exactly in this fashion. This call was made, both players went to show it won't be tolerated. No one went because we were tracking the play. Blah, blah, blah. There is a way to make the officiating substantitive, accountable; but not throwing the official under the bus, unless perhaps that is warranted. Then the line is, "we will work with Mr. Watshisnutz to show the standard we are expecting."

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Don't know if anyone was watching Lucic last nite, but on several occasions he would instigate whoever was near him and the refs would take both players off the ice regardless if the guy who happened to be next to him at the time did not even lift a finger. That annoys the hell out of me. If you have a guy stirring the pot(blatantly) and he is getting no response from the guy next to him, then give out 1 penalty not 2.....they do it to Rinaldo enough so I know they understand the concept.....

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What the NHL needs to do is explain, post-game, calls like this -- perhaps exactly in this fashion

That would be an incredible thing, each official going through his reasonings and mea culpas for each game. But I don't think we need that, a public pillory of all the officials all the time. Just select incidences where it is way obvious they messed up. Like the baseball ref who admitted he blew the call on a tag, people were mad, but respected his honesty.

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