Officials

[Bakanekimiwa]

Of course you don't care what the announcers say. They are only relevant when they help your argument.

I've watched it over and over. Shoulder to shoulder. Principal point of contact.

CSN clip...

NBC clip...

And if you want to talk running into goalies, watch the 3rd period again and see how many times the Flyers made a little extra contact with Fleury trying to rattle him...and I am not talking about the Orpik/JVR incident either.

Two more examples of "no big deal if we do it" but "Pens are dirty/cheap/league darlings" if they do it.

it was shoulder that, happened to, connect with the head. it is not the hit itself per se, it's the fact that he's taking runs at players that are 'unsuspecting'. it's predatory and it's dangerous. the fact that he's connected with many heads shouldn't be overlooked when these are not 'hockey plays'. is it a hockey play if it's an infraction? that would seem to be a misnomer.

b21... I consider you an ok poster here, but you cannot defend malkin's dirty play. the flyers could, and should, put together a collection of malkin 'highlights' for the league. not just from this series, but from the season series. when malkin is frustrated, he takes runs at the players that are frustrating him. he nearly connected a huge elbow swing on giroux earlier in the season.

this is why it's not surprising in the least that he's taken several runs at couturier and knocked grossmanN out for the series. malkin should have been suspended for his elbow to grossmann's head. luckily his vengeful, undisciplined play has led to several PP goals for the flyers. he's most definitely been overlooked by the league, whether intentional or not, that's for the conspiracy theorists. but, the league needs to be made more aware of his dirty habits..... starting with his elbow reel.

but, no matter what happens with this series, my lasting impression of the pens and, especially malkin, is an extreme distaste for how your players have targeted cooter and grossmanN. karma is a ***** and it was very fitting that malkin saved one of his best interferences for your captain. would be a real shame if Crosby starts feeling concussion symptoms again, wouldn't it?

[hf101]

@Skatebyu66

Opposing fans are welcome to the site, and we encourage you to open threads in the Penguin's forum. Try to keep responses on other teams forums conversational. .

thanks.

[Phillygrump]

Is anyone actually blaming refs for the Flyers losing? Serious question.

No. But it is troublesome to see the stuff that Malkin gets away with. I don't think the refs made the Flyers lose, but I do still think they helped Crosby get his Cup to cement himself as a superstar.

[B21]

@Bakanekimiwa

<< it was shoulder that, happened to, connect with the head. it is not the hit itself per se, it's the fact that he's taking runs at players that are 'unsuspecting'. it's predatory and it's dangerous. the fact that he's connected with many heads shouldn't be overlooked when these are not 'hockey plays'. is it a hockey play if it's an infraction? that would seem to be a misnomer. >>

I disagree. If the principal point of contact is not the head, it's not predatory or dangerous. It's a hockey play and in this case it was interference. Barely, but it was. If "unsuspecting" were a criteria, Rinaldo should be out of the league. Look up all of his hits on YouTube. Lots of borderline legal hits and most of them the guy had no idea the hit was coming. Galiardi, McBain, Larsson, Bortuzzo. If unsuspecting is part of the deal, why did just about every single poster defend the Richards hit on Booth? Why does "keep you head up" not apply when a Penguin is making a hit?

This is my problem. Not that you or other Flyers fans are saying "Malkin is dirty..." or "Malkin should be suspended..." It's the double standard that is applied and that is evident in your analysis of these two hits by Malkin.

<< b21... I consider you an ok poster here, but you cannot defend malkin's dirty play. the flyers could, and should, put together a collection of malkin 'highlights' for the league. not just from this series, but from the season series. when malkin is frustrated, he takes runs at the players that are frustrating him. he nearly connected a huge elbow swing on giroux earlier in the season. >>

Never denied he is not liberal with the elbows. That doesn't mean every "questionable" hit is illegal or dirty. Those hits I will defend. Case in point...this hit on Courturier. Nothing wrong other than it was a tad bit late. The Grossman hit..show me a clear angle or evidence that he made contact with the head. I don't see it. Grossman didn't seem fazed. Two separate announcing teams didn't mention it. No reaction by the players. Nothing. Questionable - yes. Suspension worth? Not close i/m/h/o.

<< this is why it's not surprising in the least that he's taken several runs at couturier and knocked grossmanN out for the series. >>

See above. I have serious doubts that the hit on Grossman is what knocked him out. I'll argue it was the hit by Kennedy...which seemed pretty legal. And if by "running" Courturier you mean the legal hit in Game 4 then I need to see more beacuse I haven't seen Malkin "run" Courturier.

<< malkin should have been suspended for his elbow to grossmann's head. luckily his vengeful, undisciplined play has led to several PP goals for the flyers. he's most definitely been overlooked by the league, whether intentional or not, that's for the conspiracy theorists. but, the league needs to be made more aware of his dirty habits..... starting with his elbow reel. >>

Overlooked - yes. Not on the Grossman hit. At most, it's "questionable" and questionable should not be grounds for a suspension.

Not to beat a dead horse, but where were you when Rinaldo punched Kennedy in the head in the finale? Can you admit that a known and repeat offender of a team the league supposedly targets unfairly got away with one? A HUGE one?

And if I were the Flyers I would hope Malkin does keep taking penalties. You have 1 even strength goal in the last 8 periods in the series. That was Giroux 27 seconds into the 3rd period of Game 3. The other 6 goals scored in that time were on the PP. Two were 5-3.

<< but, no matter what happens with this series, my lasting impression of the pens and, especially malkin, is an extreme distaste for how your players have targeted cooter and grossmanN. karma is a ***** and it was very fitting that malkin saved one of his best interferences for your captain. would be a real shame if Crosby starts feeling concussion symptoms again, wouldn't it? >>

I think they have targeted them...but not with illegal hits. I know they want to get pucks in deep, make your D chase and then forecheck like mad. That's targeting. And since when are two "questionable" hits targeting anyway? Two hits does not targeting make.

[OccamsRazor]

How the **** does malkin get away with such obvious head shots? Shoulder to coots head, then no attempt to stop running into brz. ******* joke.

Had that been Hartnell he would have landed 2 minutes in the box....but Malkinit's ok to run the goaltender... unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bakanekimiwa]

@B21

<<I disagree. If the principal point of contact is not the head, it's not predatory or dangerous. It's a hockey play and in this case it was interference. Barely, but it was. If "unsuspecting" were a criteria, Rinaldo should be out of the league. Look up all of his hits on YouTube. Lots of borderline legal hits and most of them the guy had no idea the hit was coming. Galiardi, McBain, Larsson, Bortuzzo. If unsuspecting is part of the deal, why did just about every single poster defend the Richards hit on Booth? Why does "keep you head up" not apply when a Penguin is making a hit?>>

disagree with you on this... and I think the league does as well. the 'unsuspecting' has become a criteria in that these hits to the head are exactly what the league mandated needed to be eradicated from the game. these hits from almost behind the player... coming from his blind spot. malkin has made quite a few of these that could make the reel that the league showed each team at the beginning of this past season.

'keep your head up' simply does not apply here. first of all, in the 2 examples I mentioned, cooter didn't even have the puck. he was chasing a player with the puck. 2nd, grossmanN was in a scrum for the puck with another pitt player and basically had his back to malkin. again, text book example of the type of hit on an 'unsuspecting' player... the exact type of hit the league *said* they wanted to remove from the game precisely because of the amount of concussions. principle point of contact was the head on the grossmanN shot. it wasn't the principle to cooter, but he was hitting shoulders and above for sure. had he not been in the blind area... more importantly if cooter even had the puck!, it would have been a hockey play.

<<This is my problem. Not that you or other Flyers fans are saying "Malkin is dirty..." or "Malkin should be suspended..." It's the double standard that is applied and that is evident in your analysis of these two hits by Malkin.>>

Never denied he is not liberal with the elbows. That doesn't mean every "questionable" hit is illegal or dirty. Those hits I will defend. Case in point...this hit on Courturier. Nothing wrong other than it was a tad bit late. The Grossman hit..show me a clear angle or evidence that he made contact with the head. I don't see it. Grossman didn't seem fazed. Two separate announcing teams didn't mention it. No reaction by the players. Nothing. Questionable - yes. Suspension worth? Not close i/m/h/o.

your case in point is something i like to call 'wrong'. late, from blind side and he DID NOT HAVE THE PUCK. re: grossmanN you say 'liberal with the elbows' i say it's downright dirty and dangerous. furthermore, and again, it's the type of hits the league has said it would like to remove completely. also, we'll never know what, exactly caused his concussion, nor do they really on any hit. if your fender was damaged before you were hit again... how do we know!? this is why the point is the *type* of hit that needs to be removed to try to stem the near epidemic of concussions.

See above. I have serious doubts that the hit on Grossman is what knocked him out. I'll argue it was the hit by Kennedy...which seemed pretty legal. And if by "running" Courturier you mean the legal hit in Game 4 then I need to see more beacuse I haven't seen Malkin "run" Courturier.

see above on mine... I never mentioned Kennedy's hit because it looked clean, but we can't say for sure what caused what definitively. you might be right, this hit might have done it, but this *was* a hockey play.

I'll say it again though, malkin ran cooter... from behind. look at it again. I say 'ran' because he didn't have the puck. malkin basically went out of his way to hit him.. high and from behind. it's dirty. how can it be any more simple!? there was contact with the head. I believe the call was interference, which is the correct call since he didn't have the puck.

Overlooked - yes. Not on the Grossman hit. At most, it's "questionable" and questionable should not be grounds for a suspension.

to me, the hit on grossmanN was worse because I believe he was targeting the head. we'll never know what hit gave him the concussion exactly, but this hit was with intent to injure and should have been suspendable. and again, fit the criteria the league issued they'd like to ban. I've never heard of this quote you have heard from grossmanN, and as you even said yourself what the announcers say about any hit means very little to nothing to me.

Not to beat a dead horse, but where were you when Rinaldo punched Kennedy in the head in the finale? Can you admit that a known and repeat offender of a team the league supposedly targets unfairly got away with one? A HUGE one?

look b21, don't go trying to misdirect the topic of conversation on me here. we're not talking about richards or rinaldo. those were different situations, which we're not talking about here.... we're talking about malkin's hits here. I'm not going to apologize for every rinaldo hit. there's many and I'm not defending him. I didn't even see the hit you're talking about... maybe he did get away with one, that would be a first. and I would love to see video of that just to see Kennedy getting punched in the face.

And if I were the Flyers I would hope Malkin does keep taking penalties. You have 1 even strength goal in the last 8 periods in the series. That was Giroux 27 seconds into the 3rd period of Game 3. The other 6 goals scored in that time were on the PP. Two were 5-3.

malkin has been able to fly under the radar for a long time with his questionable hits. one reason is that he's very quick. his elbows are very quick and often go unnoticed by players and referees alike. it's only upon further video review where his full 'intent' comes into view. this is why I'm not blaming the refs. this is also why I think the league needs to step in to correct this unwanted behaviour. when I say 'questionable' I mean that it's questionable for suspension. in other words, it needs to get looked at.

I think they have targeted them...but not with illegal hits. I know they want to get pucks in deep, make your D chase and then forecheck like mad. That's targeting. And since when are two "questionable" hits targeting anyway? Two hits does not targeting make.

the pens are targeting and when things aren't going their way, they've shown their ability to go cheap with very dirty plays. specifically with malkin, he's been getting owned by cooter and grossmanN and has literally gone out of his way to lay some cheap, questionable, you say liberal I say dirty elbows. I'll just leave this lil image here for ref.

http://mobilwi.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a6dde087970b01630466bd92970d-pi

Edited April 22, 2012 by Bakanekimiwa

[TedZep]

this hit on Courturier. Nothing wrong other than

We'll just stop you right here. Is there "nothing" wrong or is the "other" part of your statement correct? They are mutually exclusive.

And stop the your feed at 18 seconds. Malkin's shoulder is making direct contact with Couturier's head. Not his shoulder. It was late, from behindish, and to the head. Other than that, he did "nothing wrong."

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Also NBC sports and don cherry to rangers and a lot of other sports outlets have all said out loud and are questioning the league on the absence of discipline of malkin in this round. He is head hunting. It's very clear that he is. Pens fans like you never find anything wrong with what your players do prolly cause your just use to it and think its how it's played. Facts are facts and eventually your 71 is going to have to answer to the league or worse on the ice. In a blow out game now the risk is high for it to be settled on the ice especially if Philly is going to be the winner. It's very well known that malkin is dirty and his antics will be handled by someone on some team shortly.

[Phillygrump]

@Skatebyu66

I think we're all waiting for your next post.....

You were chirping yesterday and now we don't hear from you?

Is this not troll behavior?

[Phillygrump]

He will be gone after Sunday. No worries.

Giroux. will. lead. the. way.

Dead on Andy. Nice call.

[AndyS]

Dead on Andy. Nice call.

I think (as much as we love G) that we don't yet really appreciate just how great a player Giroux is.

[Phillygrump]

I think (as much as we love G) that we don't yet really appreciate just how great a player Giroux is.

I think the guy is in the discussion for top 3 in the league. I thought he was the best player on the team......last year

I think this kid is a superstar in the making. Love G.

[doom88]

G was shut down a bit during the season when other teams keyed on him as priority number one. When he can elevate his game over that tall task, I'll say sure, top three.

Don't get me wrong, he's very very good.

[doom88]

I think the guy is in the discussion for top 3 in the league. I thought he was the best player on the team......last year

I think this kid is a superstar in the making. Love G.

Which is it, top 3 or superstar in the making? In my opinion, it's the latter.

[mojo1917]

G was shut down a bit during the season when other teams keyed on him as priority number one. When he can elevate his game over that tall task, I'll say sure, top three

so doom, you don't think the Penguins were keying on him as priority number 1, the team that was supposed to win it all ?... he did raise his game on the biggest stage, against the "best team" he saw a Letang and Orpik a whole lot... down play it all you wan,t but i think your thinking here is erroneous.

[Phillygrump]

Which is it, top 3 or superstar in the making? In my opinion, it's the latter.

doom, I think he is a superstar in the making and I think even right now you include him in the discussion for the top 3 players in the league.

so, both

[doom88]

Six of Gs fourteen points came in one game, where there was no D and no goalie. Look I really like the guy too, but top three in the world to me is a very big deal. He's still improving and young. He does not have the longevity at a high level, and still struggles against priority one matchups.

I think he will get there, but he's not there yet in my opinion. Not downplaying. He's down right magic at times, and plays all situations etc etc. I just want to maintain some level of perspective. Top three is a huge thing.

[Spinorama]

There were questionable calls both ways

I haven't weighed in on this thread but I've said it before.. remove the questionable calls. make a rule and call it. you don't want a play called a penalty then take it out of the rule book. I can't stand that the refs have the power to "let them play" if it's a penalty call it, otherwise, let them play!