GOT DAMN that felt good.

[Flyingswede]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH

Fantastic game! I love how we ended this serie. Im happy for Gustafsson scoring a goal too. How freakin good doesnt it feel to win against the pens. And Buttman will probebly cry himself to sleep tonight loosing Crosby early in the PO.

[OccamsRazor]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH

Fantastic game! I love how we ended this serie. Im happy for Gustafsson scoring a goal too. How freakin good doesnt it feel to win against the pens. And Buttman will probebly cry himself to sleep tonight loosing Crosby early in the PO.

Hat e to say it but say hello to Carle's replacement!!!!!!! Actually i like it!!!! Sorry Carle is not worth the $ he is seeking...let him walk....

[TedZep]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH

I second that emotion!

[doom88]

Hat e to say it but say hello to Carle's replacement!!!!!!! Actually i like it!!!! Sorry Carle is not worth the $ he is seeking...let him walk....

Has Carle or his agent said anything? What are his demands?

I think just letting Carle go is a very big mistake, and at the very least, trade his rights at the draft. I think the Flyers would be wise to keep him. Pronger is very likely done, and the sun is setting on Timonen (who may retire), though it isn't down yet. That leaves Mesz, Gross, Coby, Lilja, Walker, Bartilus, Manning, and Gus. Carle is UFA, and is Bourdon RFA - and people seemed to be hot and cold about him too.

If Carle can be signed for a reasonable salary, the Flyers should try to keep him. Timonen also comes off the cap summer 2013.

[radoran]

Has Carle or his agent said anything? What are his demands?

I think just letting Carle go is a very big mistake, and at the very least, trade his rights at the draft. I think the Flyers would be wise to keep him. Pronger is very likely done, and the sun is setting on Timonen (who may retire), though it isn't down yet. That leaves Mesz, Gross, Coby, Lilja, Walker, Bartilus, Manning, and Gus. Carle is UFA, and is Bourdon RFA - and people seemed to be hot and cold about him too.

If Carle can be signed for a reasonable salary, the Flyers should try to keep him. Timonen also comes off the cap summer 2013.

It all hinges on Pronger's status and whether or not they (and he) are willing to call his career definitively over.

[NHL95]

It all hinges on Pronger's status and whether or not they (and he) are willing to call his career definitively over.

If it was a body injury Pronger could shake it off. But a concussion (as bad as his was) at his age, and after all he has accomplished over his career i think he calls it quits. It sucks. But even before that i thought his lack of speed was becoming a liability. For the short time he was here though, that guy gave us alot. And i believe he had a strong input on the decision regarding whether or not the Flyers would be better off without Richards and Carter. Thats just my opinion though.

[hf101]

@Flyingswede

And Buttman will probebly cry himself to sleep tonight loosing Crosby early in the PO.

I really doubt that. The Flyers this season are the most viewed franchise by the numbers. They are an exciting team to watch, and I think the total NHL viewership is more important to Bettman than Sidney Crosby.

[canoli]

Carle had a great game today - saved an almost-certain goal on a 2 on 1 when he washed out Dupuis, didn't even let him get a shot off. That was just one of his strong defensive plays. He blocked a bunch of shots and passes and played smart hockey all afternoon.

I'm fine with letting him walk if he's going for a huge payday, but if he's willing to take a moderate raise on a 3 or 4-year contract I'd like to keep him. As long as Grossmann and Mez are healthy and MAB continues growing as an NHL D-man our blue line is pretty impressive. Coburn is one of my favorite players and if Gus takes another next step, the way he took one today....we're okay on D.

but like Rad said a lot of it will depend on Pronger's status.

Damn Seguin just won it in OT for the Broonz. Good, fine, that series goes 7. Now if the Sens can close it out in 6 or 7 we should end up with a nice, long break. Get Mez and Grossmann ready to play Round Two!

[mojo1917]

...and here's why, for a while i've been wondering why i hate the pittsburgh penguins so much, a lot comes from the days of living out there and having those know nothing fans root against my team just because their dog wasn't good enough to be in the fight, then along comes Mario and now they're this "great hockey city". with all these cups and blah blah blah, and then Mario's career becomes star crossed and the team becomes mediocre for a span of 5-10 years then putrid for a span of 6 years when they luck into MAF, Crosby and Malkin. And all of the sudden these fans are back with their stickers on their cars and a tenuous grasp of what an offsides call is.

with the exception of a few people that post here and genuinely like hockey i hate the fans and having to acknowledge the team had more championships than mine. well those dilettantes can go back to rooting for the steelers for a year.

[flyerrod]

If it was a body injury Pronger could shake it off. But a concussion (as bad as his was) at his age, and after all he has accomplished over his career i think he calls it quits. It sucks. But even before that i thought his lack of speed was becoming a liability. For the short time he was here though, that guy gave us alot. And i believe he had a strong input on the decision regarding whether or not the Flyers would be better off without Richards and Carter. Thats just my opinion though.

I agree whole heartedly and I freakin' LOVE your avatar....GO FLYERS!!!!!

[radoran]

If it was a body injury Pronger could shake it off. But a concussion (as bad as his was) at his age, and after all he has accomplished over his career i think he calls it quits. It sucks. But even before that i thought his lack of speed was becoming a liability. For the short time he was here though, that guy gave us alot. And i believe he had a strong input on the decision regarding whether or not the Flyers would be better off without Richards and Carter. Thats just my opinion though.

He's still got an over 35 contract and will have to be an LTIR decision at the start of every season - and will need to miss his baselines each year for the remainder of his contract. So, they can go 10% above the cap during the off-season, which could allow you to sign a Calre, but if Pronger is able to return, you are stuck needing to make an immediate move in an environment that other teams know you are stuck.

There is hope that an accomodation might be made in a new CBA, but that's sheer speculation and not a basis upon which one can make a long term signing decision.

Pronger's situation has nothing to do with whether or not he "calls it quits" - because when the cap comes into play that doesn't matter. He needs to be deemed "medically unable to perform" every season (just like Rathje).

[NHL95]

He's still got an over 35 contract and will have to be an LTIR decision at the start of every season - and will need to miss his bathselines each year for the remainder of his contract. So, they can go 10% above the cap during the off-season, which could allow you to sign a Calre, but if Pronger is able to return, you are stuck needing to make an immediate move in an environment that other teams know you are stuck.

There is hope that an accomodation might be made in a new CBA, but that's sheer speculation and not a basis upon which one can make a long term signing decision.

Pronger's situation has nothing to do with whether or not he "calls it quits" - because when the cap comes into play that doesn't matter.

True. I just believe that Pronger will be a man and step away with class and not milk this thing out. He seems like an unselfish guy that would take his families advice under consideration, and the best interest of the Flyers as well. I know that some of the greats in sports do not know when to walk away, but i think Pronger has an honorable like mentality in which he looks at the big picture instead of what he wants and does the right thing. Idk i just see him as that type of guy.

[radoran]

True. I just believe that Pronger will be a man and step away with class and not milk this thing out. He seems like an unselfish guy that would take his families advice under consideration, and the best interest of the Flyers as well. I know that some of the greats in sports do not know when to walk away, but i think Pronger has an honorable like mentality in which he looks at the big picture instead of what he wants and does the right thing. Idk i just see him as that type of guy.

He may have already made that determination. I didn't get the feeling that Rathje really wanted to "make a comeback" when they kept trotting him out in preseason.

The over 35 clause in the CBA is in effect WRT his cap number and being able to get/use that $4.9M is trickier than just "he retired" - he has to be decalred medically unable to perform each year at the start of the season and THEN the Flyers get the LTIR space for that season.

It's convoluted and it's silly and in many cases counterproductive for the team and the player - and it may change with the new CBA terms or even a new "interpretation" of the existing ones - but that's the rule as it has been called. I think they need a lot more flexibility (and fewer cases of GMs deliberately trying to stretch the letter if not the spirit of the rules).

The rule was in place to stop shenanigans such as the Flyers' deal with Pronger (which is literally one of the "last of its kind"). They gambled that they would get several competitive years out of him as a Hall of Famer for $5M on the cap when they made the deal. It's not working out so well for them now.

[canoli]

They gambled that they would get several competitive years out of him as a Hall of Famer for $5M on the cap when they made the deal. It's not working out so well for them now.

maybe. But it's an incredibly difficult thing to judge; our personal biases will factor heavily in deciding whether signing Pronger was a good move. Mine shake out this way: I think Pronger for all intents and purposes rescued the Flyers that first year and his personality was ingrained into the team, an effect we're still feeling, still using. The year before we got him we were like a ship without a rudder, and a crew with no concept of discipline; we needed immediate "adult" supervision - a Pronger, a Lidstrom, a Messier, etc., someone who's whole presence resonates Authority, Dedication, Excellence. One season later we made it to the Final, our best (and luckiest, but luck counts too!) PO run in a long, long time.

Of course I realize Pronger has some negative qualities too but his best, even his best at 36 years old is (was) awfully good, and imho was exactly what the Flyers needed at the time. Maybe he drove Richards out of that locker room, Carter too. But maybe 17 and18 would've been better off falling in line with Pronger, Kimmo, Briere...

It was a helluva price to pay, and certainly there were other directions we could've gone to bring about what I considered an essential sea change to the Flyers. But if the worst is here and Pronger doesn't play again, we LTIR him for the next 5 years...well, then that's the way it is.

[radoran]

maybe. But it's an incredibly difficult thing to judge; our personal biases will factor heavily in deciding whether signing Pronger was a good move. Mine shake out this way: I think Pronger for all intents and purposes rescued the Flyers that first year and his personality was ingrained into the team, an effect we're still feeling, still using. The year before we got him we were like a ship without a rudder, and a crew with no concept of discipline; we needed immediate "adult" supervision - a Pronger, a Lidstrom, a Messier, etc., someone who's whole presence resonates Authority, Dedication, Excellence. One season later we made it to the Final, our best (and luckiest, but luck counts too!) PO run in a long, long time.

Of course I realize Pronger has some negative qualities too but his best, even his best at 36 years old is (was) awfully good, and imho was exactly what the Flyers needed at the time. Maybe he drove Richards out of that locker room, Carter too. But maybe 17 and18 would've been better off falling in line with Pronger, Kimmo, Briere...

It was a helluva price to pay, and certainly there were other directions we could've gone to bring about what I considered an essential sea change to the Flyers. But if the worst is here and Pronger doesn't play again, we LTIR him for the next 5 years...well, then that's the way it is.

I'm not arguing the efficacy or not of signing Pronger, per se. I'm talking about the actual, practical impact of his situation as it applies now, particularly where it affects the signing of Carle.

[canoli]

Ah - then you are right on the money...no pun intended. Yep there are some difficult waters to navigate after the season is over. It's especially bad timing with the new CBA too - I don't get why they're waiting till the season is already under way to settle it, why not negotiate right after the SCF, get it finished in time for the new season?

there must be a "good" reason - I haven't thought it through, but I'm sure it benefits the owners somehow...

[radoran]

Ah - then you are right on the money...no pun intended. Yep there are some difficult waters to navigate after the season is over. It's especially bad timing with the new CBA too - I don't get why they're waiting till the season is already under way to settle it, why not negotiate right after the SCF, get it finished in time for the new season?

there must be a "good" reason - I haven't thought it through, but I'm sure it benefits the owners somehow...

I think the Crater/Richards trades really open up the Flyers to have a nice cycle of players and vets in the next 5 years. I said at the time they were younger, cheaper and better and I think that's been born out (my arm will be in a sling from patting myself on the back).

Case in point: Sean Couturier CAN'T EVEN BEEN EXTENDED until the end of next season and is a $1.375M cap hit each of the next two seasons.

But there will be "odd men out" - and I just look at the cold, hard reality of the situation this off season it's most likely Matt Carle.

[Spinorama]

I second that emotion!

and I'll third that!

[OccamsRazor]

Carle had a great game today - saved an almost-certain goal on a 2 on 1 when he washed out Dupuis, didn't even let him get a shot off. That was just one of his strong defensive plays. He blocked a bunch of shots and passes and played smart hockey all afternoon.

I'm fine with letting him walk if he's going for a huge payday, but if he's willing to take a moderate raise on a 3 or 4-year contract I'd like to keep him. As long as Grossmann and Mez are healthy and MAB continues growing as an NHL D-man our blue line is pretty impressive. Coburn is one of my favorite players and if Gus takes another next step, the way he took one today....we're okay on D.

but like Rad said a lot of it will depend on Pronger's status.

Damn Seguin just won it in OT for the Broonz. Good, fine, that series goes 7. Now if the Sens can close it out in 6 or 7 we should end up with a nice, long break. Get Mez and Grossmann ready to play Round Two!

I agree with that but i believe he is looking for the BIG payday and i'm not blaming him but there is no way he gets offered more than Coburn but somewhere along those lines i'd be ok with but he wants more i believe...maybe the Flyers get a hometown discount..wouldn't hold my breathe...

[JackStraw]

I think the Crater/Richards trades really open up the Flyers to have a nice cycle of players and vets in the next 5 years. I said at the time they were younger, cheaper and better and I think that's been born out (my arm will be in a sling from patting myself on the back).

Case in point: Sean Couturier CAN'T EVEN BEEN EXTENDED until the end of next season and is a $1.375M cap hit each of the next two seasons.

But there will be "odd men out" - and I just look at the cold, hard reality of the situation this off season it's most likely Matt Carle.

There is a scenario that could come to the Flyers rescue here. It's a longshot but if the Flyers win the Cup I would not be surprised if Timonen retires. That would free up $6.3 million and give Homer a lot of room to maneuver.

[Bakanekimiwa]

I think the Crater/Richards trades really open up the Flyers to have a nice cycle of players and vets in the next 5 years. I said at the time they were younger, cheaper and better and I think that's been born out (my arm will be in a sling from patting myself on the back).

Case in point: Sean Couturier CAN'T EVEN BEEN EXTENDED until the end of next season and is a $1.375M cap hit each of the next two seasons.

But there will be "odd men out" - and I just look at the cold, hard reality of the situation this off season it's most likely Matt Carle.

i'll be more than ok with that if he helps us win a cup this year as his farewell parting gift.

[OccamsRazor]

There is a scenario that could come to the Flyers rescue here. It's a longshot but if the Flyers win the Cup I would not be surprised if Timonen retires. That would free up $6.3 million and give Homer a lot of room to maneuver.

Well in an interview he stated that he wanted to play several more years...but the Cup changes everything and some guys would prefer to go out on top. And other like to come back and DEFEND that title...if they win a Cup...i won't care what they decide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[radoran]

There is a scenario that could come to the Flyers rescue here. It's a longshot but if the Flyers win the Cup I would not be surprised if Timonen retires. That would free up $6.3 million and give Homer a lot of room to maneuver.

That has been a hot rumor and, honestly, would not surprise me.

Let's hope that's a problem we have :-)

[Flyingswede]

@Flyingswede

I really doubt that. The Flyers this season are the most viewed franchise by the numbers. They are an exciting team to watch, and I think the total NHL viewership is more important to Bettman than Sidney Crosby.

If you're right thats just awesome. Didnt know that