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Armstrong, Poile, Tallon get GM of the year nods


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You know what? I wouldn't swap those two contracts. Even for Giroux, I do not like lifetime contracts. 5 years, max. Heck, even JVR's contract is piddly by Homerian standards, but it's about 3 years too long for my taste. You just get the sense that there's no way JVR will even come close to Giroux's level, despite being a 2nd overall, and I'm not sure what the rush was to lock him up based on very little.

Of course, Giroux ended up being a gem, and looking at the 2006 draft now, I would pick him #1 overall... yes, even over Toews.

I'd rather have Giroux, at 24 years old, playing at the level he is signed for 8 more years at around $5 Million per, and Bryz for 2 more at 3.75, than vice-versa. Still waiting for JVR to break out...5 years later, sheesh! I thought it was a steal at the time, but I didn't know it would turn out to be highway robbery, rape and pillage all wrapped up into one.

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JVR's in virtually the same situation Hartnell was at a comparbale age. In Hartnell's three seasons leading to age 23 he had 44 goals and 107 points in 206 games. JVR's three seasons leading up to this one sees 47 goals and 99 points in 196 games. Both had injury-shortened seasons.

And this is despite Hartnell playing both in Junior and then one year in Nashville prior to those seasons while JVR was.marooned in the desperate backwater of the NCAA which astute hockey observers know can do little but retard the growth of even the most talented player.

IF JVR emerges as a consistent 25-30 goal scorer in the next few years and avoid the two year personal slump Hartnell went through between his two good years, I'll be satisifed with the signing and he will fit right into the cap slot Hartnell has now. Hartnell took two more years to get the contract, but 2007 is a long economic time ago.

I agree with the Flyers and expect JVR to outscore Hartnell in the near future.

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@radoran

"IF JVR emerges as a consistent 25-30 goal scorer in the next few years and avoid the two year personal slump Hartnell went through between his two good years, I'll be satisifed with the signing and he will fit right into the cap slot Hartnell has now. Hartnell took two more years to get the contract, but 2007 is a long economic time ago."

I look at it the exact same way.

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Good analysis Rad as far as point production. What about the *kind* of player each one is though, that makes a difference right? Hartnell is an agitator, someone you don't want to play against. Yes he took time to carve out that role for himself, and he had a fairly long stretch where he "disappeared," when the off-ice stuff was getting to him. But all in all JVR is nothing like Hartnell even in Harts' "down" stretches.

JVR is not hard to defend because he rarely does anything worth defending. I know that's harsh and it's not *all* true but it's mostly true. We'll see what he's got in R2...a few games, shake off the rust, move up in ice-time and he should be a force out there for us. I hope he is because we can use him when we get to Lundqvist and the Rangers (assuming they win tomorrow night).

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JVR's in virtually the same situation Hartnell was at a comparbale age. In Hartnell's three seasons leading to age 23 he had 44 goals and 107 points in 206 games. JVR's three seasons leading up to this one sees 47 goals and 99 points in 196 games. Both had injury-shortened seasons.

And this is despite Hartnell playing both in Junior and then one year in Nashville prior to those seasons while JVR was.marooned in the desperate backwater of the NCAA which astute hockey observers know can do little but retard the growth of even the most talented player.

IF JVR emerges as a consistent 25-30 goal scorer in the next few years and avoid the two year personal slump Hartnell went through between his two good years, I'll be satisifed with the signing and he will fit right into the cap slot Hartnell has now. Hartnell took two more years to get the contract, but 2007 is a long economic time ago.

I agree with the Flyers and expect JVR to outscore Hartnell in the near future.

LOL...you're getting as bad as me. I know that's sarcasm, but...

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EJ Express: Holmgren, Zajac, Bergeron deserve praise

Wednesday, 04.25.2012 / 10:28 AM / NHL.Countdown

By EJ Hradek - NHL.com Analyst

Flyers GM Paul Holmgren was not nominated as one of the three finalists for the General Manager of the Year Award, voted on by the League's general managers and a panel of five league executives and five media members.

He should have, though.

Holmgren had the guts to re-make the heart of his roster last June, moving Mike Richards and Jeff Carter on the same day, just prior to the 2011 NHL Draft. Let me tell you; that isn't something you do without a lot of nerve.

In those separate deals, Holmgren picked up Wayne Simmonds, Braydon Schenn and Jakub Voracek as well as using the first-round pick acquired from the Blue Jackets (in the Carter deal) to select Sean Couturier.

Holmgren also added veteran free agents Jaromir Jagr and Max Talbot. Plus, he signed former Bemidji State star Matt Read into the mix.

Those seven players all have made an impact on the Flyers' strong season and their first-round series victory.

During the season, after losing captain Chris Pronger unexpectedly to injury, Holmgren swung a sharp deal to get strong shut-down defender Nicklas Grossmann from Dallas. He later signed the under-appreciated Grossmann to a contract extension that will keep him in Philly. Holmgren also traded for experienced D Pavel Kubina.

Holmgren's detractors will point to the expensive signing of free-agent goalie Ilya Bryzgalov, who has struggled during his first season in Philadelphia. I'd agree that the Flyers overpaid for Bryzgalov, who was coming off a dreadful first-round performance against the Wings for the Coyotes. Still, I don't think you can say that Bryzgalov wasn't an upgrade at the position. And, in a pretty unconventional way, “Universe” has helped the Flyers to the second round.

In the end, Holmgren impacted his roster this season more than any other GM. He should not only have been nominated for the honor, he should have won it.

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Good analysis Rad as far as point production. What about the *kind* of player each one is though, that makes a difference right? Hartnell is an agitator, someone you don't want to play against. Yes he took time to carve out that role for himself, and he had a fairly long stretch where he "disappeared," when the off-ice stuff was getting to him. But all in all JVR is nothing like Hartnell even in Harts' "down" stretches.

JVR is not hard to defend because he rarely does anything worth defending. I know that's harsh and it's not *all* true but it's mostly true. We'll see what he's got in R2...a few games, shake off the rust, move up in ice-time and he should be a force out there for us. I hope he is because we can use him when we get to Lundqvist and the Rangers (assuming they win tomorrow night).

Well, Hartnell wasn't the premier agitator at 22 that he is at 30. And when he went 2-14-12 in goal production his first three full seasons, there were serious questions about whether he would develop. Then he hit 18 in 59 just before the lockout and came back with a pair of 20 goal seasons.

The Flyers got him in FA and the rest we've seen.

From where I sit, the Flyers see JVR's production along the same lines and were locking him up earlier than Hartnell (JVR would also likely get better linemates in Philly than Hartnell did in Nashville) at what would be somewhat of a "discount" given that Hartnell signed his deal 5 years ago.

JVR's slotted to make $2M "real" dollars next season and he exceeds cap hit in 14-15.

Time will tell and everyone has an opinion, but I'm siding a bit with the Flyers on this one. If they get 25-30 a season for the next six, I'll take that over, say, what Ville Leino's bringing to Buffalo for the same money :-)

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haha, yeah, Ville's contract is one of the poster children for "overpaying," but so is Bryzgalov's so ... whatever.

Good stuff about Hartnell. I don't remember enough of his play in Nashville but it stands to reason he's better now than he was 8 years ago. With Hartnell it was all about hockey skills; fundamentals - skating, passing, defense. He had to become a better hockey player and he did. I bet it took 10x more work than JVR will ever have to do because JVR is blessed with everything an NHL forward needs: he's a fast skater, he's strong on the puck and he's got a hard shot with a quick release.

I have no problem with the Flyers hoping for a good ROI on JVR. After all that's what they mean when they say "developing a player." My only concern with JVR is that the development we want to see from him has little or nothing to do with skill or timing or anything specifically hockey-related. With JVR it's all about the motivation, a commitment to winning his shifts. Attacking the net with the puck, finding the seams and getting open, taking the shot...or it's about defense, 2-way play, backchecking, shot-blocking etc.

I'm not telling you anything you don't already know... I'll end with this:

I hope the Flyers see a return on their investment. He could answer the question marks with another great PO run. Even if he doesn't put up big points he can't be The Invisible Man, the way he was all too often in the reg season.

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@canoli

i want to see JvR get a little hockey smarter too, right now he's got the couple of moves and if a defender guesses which one, the defender gets a draw at least. having him on this team with these other guys who work hard and play smart will only help that.

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@radoran

We all know whats missing from JVR that keeps him from being a very good player. He was born with size and God given talent. There's only one thing that keeps him from being all that he can be. When this seasons finally over...he needs to go play junior.

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@radoran

We all know whats missing from JVR that keeps him from being a very good player. He was born with size and God given talent. There's only one thing that keeps him from being all that he can be. When this seasons finally over...he needs to go play junior.

Junior sure did wonders for Scott Hartnell. After two full seasons at Prince Albert (for some reason the team name is not "In A Can" but it does explain what Mrs. Hartnell may have found disturbing... but I digest), he came in as the 6th overall pick and put up 2 goals in 16 points in 75 games then followed up with breakout seasons of 14/41 and 12/34 (59 games).

JVR was so hampered by his time at UNH, he only managed 15/35 and 21/40 in full seasons and a meager 11/24 (43 games).

Clearly he needs to spend some time bunking with Canadians.

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@radoran

Ya, but JVR came into the NHL already knowing how to skate. Hartnell hadn't brought that small detail into his hockey repertoire at that point.

They do require that in college - or, you know, so I'm told. Apparently Junior is a little more lax in the "skating" department? :-)

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