Ex Flyers Interesting Stats (Richards, Carter, Leino)

[Leach27]

In 31 games Carter (zero goals in 5 games), Richards (2 goals in 13 games) and Leino (zero goals in 5 games) have 3 goals in 31 games conbined. Meanwhile we are averaging 4 goals a game. Interesting huh?? Anyone still miss them?

http://www.philly.co...ndros-hand.html

[OzFlyer]

Watched Gagne play tonight and wasn't impressed as much as I like him. I need Richards to pick it up as I have him on my Fantasy team!

[radoran]

In 31 games Carter (zero goals in 5 games), Richards (2 goals in 13 games) and Leino (zero goals in 5 games) have 3 goals in 31 games conbined. Meanwhile we are averaging 4 goals a game. Interesting huh?? Anyone still miss them?

My reaction to the trades was "the Flyers got better, younger and cheaper" and I still feel that way.

Leino is NOT a $4M forward. Carter is NOT the playmaking center Rick Nash has been waiting for. Richards was NOT ready to be an NHL captain.

That said, those three are better than those stats and they will improve.

[brelic]

Was Leino injured?

Anyway, he was pretty invisible in the Buffalo/Flyers game last week.

I liked him, but as @radoran says, he is NOT a $4m/yr forward.

[radoran]

Was Leino injured?

Anyway, he was pretty invisible in the Buffalo/Flyers game last week.

I liked him, but as @radoran says, he is NOT a $4m/yr forward.

Leino isn't injured - but he's in Ruff's doghouse all right. Dropped him off the first line, then the second line. I think he was skating 4 for a few games.

Leino, IMO, needs stability in linemates and sustained playing time. He's not going to get it in Buffalo.

[Leach27]

My reaction to the trades was "the Flyers got better, younger and cheaper" and I still feel that way.

Leino is NOT a $4M forward. Carter is NOT the playmaking center Rick Nash has been waiting for. Richards was NOT ready to be an NHL captain.

That said, those three are better than those stats and they will improve.

Hard to argue all those good points, all 3 have been dissapointments to there new clubs so far. Why not beyond the scope of these 3 and look at Gagne? 8 points in 12 games, the only thing with him I believe he is one hit away from being out for good. And I hope that never happens to him.

[Lindbergh31]

I think all Flyers fans knew Leino wasn't worth what Buffalo gave him, he's a $2 million - $2.5 million per year player not $4 million plus. As for Carter, he wasn't your typical playmaking centre like a Brad Richards which is what Rick Nash needs. Mike Richards will fit in well in LA unless he ends up enjoying the nightlife more than hockey. Getting the players and picks for those players will end up helping the Flyers in the long run.

[flyerrod]

Hard to argue all those good points, all 3 have been dissapointments to there new clubs so far. Why not beyond the scope of these 3 and look at Gagne? 8 points in 12 games, the only thing with him I believe he is one hit away from being out for good. And I hope that never happens to him.

I always have and always will like Simon Gagne. I was pissed when he was basically let go but that was one of the hard decisions that Homer had to make (and the right one). I am in total agreement with not wanting him to get Lindrosed/Primeaued.

[aziz]

Why not beyond the scope of these 3 and look at Gagne? 8 points in 12 games, the only thing with him I believe he is one hit away from being out for good. And I hope that never happens to him.

people have been saying that for years, and yet there he is, still putting up points at a decent clip.

every player in the league is one bad hit away from being out for good.

[Illflyaway]

I always have and always will like Simon Gagne. I was pissed when he was basically let go but that was one of the hard decisions that Homer had to make (and the right one). I am in total agreement with not wanting him to get Lindrosed/Primeaued.

IMO, I don't think Homer had to make the decision to trade Gagne. He got pigeonholed because of his prior move (Meszaros) and was forced to shed his salary and take on the additional deadweight of Walker. It could have been handled much better.

[OH1FlyersFan]

My reaction to the trades was "the Flyers got better, younger and cheaper" and I still feel that way.

Leino is NOT a $4M forward. Carter is NOT the playmaking center Rick Nash has been waiting for. Richards was NOT ready to be an NHL captain.

That said, those three are better than those stats and they will improve.

Yeah, they were so excited to have Carter here in Columbus. He was the final piece of the puzzle. Everything Nash needed. I tried to tell them on one of their blogs that Carter could end up being a major disappointment, that he wasn't going to be a panacea - based on my time watching him play for the Flyers. They didn't want to hear it. I think it's starting to sink in now, though. The Columbus paper is saying he could play in Thursday's game against the Hawks, though. First game back in like a month.

[idahophilly]

So I was checking after reading an article on Philly.com and all three of them combined for 78 goals last year. Now, if use a 13 game average so far this season and they have scored a COMBINED 3 goals, they would be on pace for 18 goals this season. THAT'S COMBINED! I know Carter has been hurt and Richards and Leino will pick it up more but still. Tha't not pretty! Now , if we count up Voracek, Couts, and Simmonds, they have 11 goals and if we count Read, Talbot (go figure) and Jagr we have 14 more for a total of 25 goals in 14 games. Do you thinks these trends continue overall (with the little ups and down that are expected)?

[idahophilly]

Oh and I forgot, we havn't even gotten Schenn effectivly into the lineup yet. We may and when he does he'll score some more goals for us also...

[radoran]

Yeah, they were so excited to have Carter here in Columbus. He was the final piece of the puzzle. Everything Nash needed. I tried to tell them on one of their blogs that Carter could end up being a major disappointment, that he wasn't going to be a panacea - based on my time watching him play for the Flyers. They didn't want to hear it. I think it's starting to sink in now, though. The Columbus paper is saying he could play in Thursday's game against the Hawks, though. First game back in like a month.

I warned my Buffalo friends about Leino, too.

Crater is not, nor has he ever been that I've seen, a "playmaker."

[idahophilly]

Yeah, they were so excited to have Carter here in Columbus. He was the final piece of the puzzle. Everything Nash needed. I tried to tell them on one of their blogs that Carter could end up being a major disappointment, that he wasn't going to be a panacea - based on my time watching him play for the Flyers. They didn't want to hear it. I think it's starting to sink in now, though. The Columbus paper is saying he could play in Thursday's game against the Hawks, though. First game back in like a month.

Yeah, and he is going to be one shot away from breaking the foot again. He's damaged goods...

[Leach27]

people have been saying that for years, and yet there he is, still putting up points at a decent clip.

every player in the league is one bad hit away from being out for good.

That's true, but your not taking into account Gagne's injury history.

[aziz]

That's true, but your not taking into account Gagne's injury history.

are you refering to gagne's history of non-chronic, unrelated injuries? the one that doesn't suggest he is predisposed to any problem in particular?

[Leach27]

Check the data i'd say he's predisposed to head & neck injuries, if anything does him in for good that would be it, reason they are the most serious. Time will tell.

2011/11/03 Missed 2 games (undisclosed).

2011/10/29 Undisclosed, day-to-day.

2011/07/02 Signed as an unrestriicted free agent by the Los Angeles Kings to a two-year contract.

2011/05/14 Missed 3 playoff games (head injury).

2011/05/01 Head injury, day-to-day.

2011/03/22 Missed 1 game (pinched nerve in neck).

2011/03/19 Pinched nerve in neck, day-to-day.

2010/11/30 Missed 18 games (neck injury).

2010/10/26 Neck injury, injured reserve.

2010/10/22 Neck injury, day-to-day.

2010/07/19 Acquired from the Philadelphia Flyers.

2010/05/07 Missed 4 games (right foot surgery).

2010/04/21 Right foot surgery, sidelined indefinitely.

2009/12/19 Missed 24 games (hernias in right groin).

2009/10/27 Hernias in right groin, sidelined indefinitely.

2009/01/06 Missed 2 games (shoulder injury).

2008/12/31 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.

2008/10/24 Missed 1 game (flu).

2008/10/22 Flu, day-to-day.

2008/05/18 Missed the last 27 games of the regular season and all 17 playoff games (concussion).

2008/02/20 Concussion, remainder of the regular season.

2008/02/12 Mild concussion, sidelined indefinitely.

2008/02/10 Mild concussion, left Sunday's game.

2008/01/10 Missed 26 games (dizzyness).

2007/11/08 Dizzyness, sidelined indefinitely.

2007/11/05 Missed 4 games (dizzyness).

2007/10/25 Dizzyness, day-to-day.

2007/03/24 Missed 6 games (groin).

2007/03/11 Groin, day-to-day.

2006/09/11 Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Philadelphia Flyers to a five-year contract.

2006/03/06 Missed 3 games (bruised knee).

2006/02/22 Bruised knee, day-to-day.

2006/02/10 Missed 1 game (stomach virus).

2006/02/08 Stomach virus, day-to-day.

2006/01/02 Missed 1 game (flu).

2005/12/31 Flu, day-to-day.

2005/12/22 Missed 5 games (groin).

2005/12/09 Groin, late December.

2005/08/09 Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Philadelphia Flyers.

2004/08/02 Re-signed by the Philadelphia Flyers to a one-year contract.

2003/11/08 Leg injury, left Saturday's game (Didn't miss any games).

2003/10/25 Missed 2 games (bruised right shoulder).

2003/10/21 Bruised right shoulder, day-to-day.

2003/04/01 Missed 13 games (groin).

2003/03/08 Groin, sidelined indefinitely.

2003/03/07 Groin, left Friday's game.

2003/03/07 Missed 13 games (groin).

2003/03/02 Groin, day-to-day.

2003/02/05 Groin, late February.

2003/02/04 Groin, left Tuesday's game.

2003/02/04 Missed 3 games (groin).

2003/01/25 Groin, day-to-day.

2003/01/24 Groin, left Friday's game.

2003/01/07 Missed 5 games (cut above right eyebrow/concussion).

2003/01/05 Cut above right eyebrow/concussion, day-to-day.

2002/12/28 Cut above right eyebrow, day-to-day.

2002/12/27 Cut on forehead, left Friday's game.

2002/12/02 Missed 2 games (abdominal injury).

2002/11/28 Abdominal injury, day-to-day.

2002/09/11 Re-signed by the Philadelphia Flyers to a two-year contract.

2002/04/17 Missed the last game of the regular season (virus).

2002/04/14 Virus, day-to-day.

2002/01/08 Missed 2 games (shoulder injury).

2002/01/02 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.

2001/03/24 Missed 12 games (left shoulder subluxation).

2001/02/25 Left shoulder subluxation, late March.

2001/02/22 Missed 1 game (back injury).

2001/02/19 Back injury, day-to-day.

[aziz]

Time will tell.

no, it won't. gagne had concussion issues in one season, as i recall. in 2008. no reoccurance. if "time hasn't told" yet that that is not an ongoing problem, it never will.

and then he was rammed head first into the boards last season and suffered a compression injury in his neck. completely unrelated.

it's another fiction people won't let go of. yes, gagne misses a game here and a game there. much like briere. briere one hit away from being done?

here's briere:

2011/11/03 Missed 2 games (upper body injury).

2011/10/29 Upper body injury, day-to-day.

2011/04/08 Missed 2 games (lower body injury).

2011/04/03 Lower body injury, day-to-day.

2010/11/07 Missed 3 games (suspension).

2010/11/01 Suspended by the NHL for three games.

2009/12/03 Missed 3 games (suspension/flu).

2009/11/24 Suspended by the NHL for 2 games.

2009/11/12 Missed 4 games (quadriceps injury).

2009/10/31 Quadriceps injury, day-to-day.

2009/03/12 Missed 2 games (groin).

2009/03/06 Groin, day-to-day.

2009/02/28 Missed 36 games (groin).

2008/12/03 Groin, sidelined indefinitely.

2008/12/02 Missed 9 games (groin).

2008/11/12 Groin, day-to-day.

2008/11/08 Missed 6 games (abdominal surgery).

2008/10/24 Abdominal surgery, late November.

2008/04/11 Missed 2 games (knee injury).

2008/04/04 Knee injury, day-to-day.

2008/03/06 Missed 1 game (sprained right shoulder).

2008/03/04 Sprained right shoulder, day-to-day.

2007/07/01 Signed as an unrestricted free agent by the Philadelphia Flyers to a eight-year contract.

2007/03/02 Missed 1 game (flu).

2007/02/27 Flu, day-to-day.

2006/08/03 Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Buffalo Sabres to a one-year contract.

2006/03/30 Suspended by the NHL for two games.

2006/03/01 Missed 24 games (abdominal surgery).

2006/01/06 Abdominal surgery, late February.

2005/12/17 Abdominal injury, day-to-day.

2005/12/11 Missed 8 games (Abdominal injury).

2005/11/23 Abdominal injury, sidelined indefinitely.

2005/08/15 Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Buffalo Sabres to a one-year contract.

2005/07/31 Buffalo Sabres tendered a qualifying offer.

2004/09/28 NHL lockout: Signed with the SC Bern of the Swiss National League.

2004/08/13 Re-signed by the Buffalo Sabres to a one-year contract.

2004/07/16 Filed for salary arbitration.

2004/06/30 Buffalo Sabres tendered a qualifying offer.

2003/03/10 Acquired from the Phoenix Coyotes.

2002/08/06 Re-signed by the Phoenix Coyotes to a two-year contract.

2001/08/01 Re-signed by the Phoenix Coyotes.

2001/02/16 Missed 2 games (shoulder injury).

2001/02/13 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.

2001/01/08 Recalled from Springfield (AHL).

2000/12/27 Named AHL Player of the Week for the period ending December 27.

2000/11/15 Assigned to Springfield (AHL).

2000/11/12 Recalled from Springfield (AHL).

2000/10/20 Assigned to Springfield (AHL).

2000/10/19 Missed 5 games (groin).

2000/10/07 Groin, day-to-day.

Edited November 8, 2011 by aziz

[Leach27]

You should put the 2 lists side by side, you'll find one has had head injuries the other hasn't.

[aziz]

You should put the 2 lists side by side, you'll find one has had head injuries the other hasn't.

right, the one concussion in 07-08. which hasn't caused him any kind of problem since. how many years have to go by before people decide gagne isn't 3 seconds away from retiring due to that? we're 5 years out from it now. that's a lot of one-hit-aways that haven't actually happened.

my guess is all hockey players have had at least one concussion at some point in their career. my little brother had three growing up, and then went on to play rugby at william and mary for a few years with no problems. the simple fact that a guy has been concussed at some point doesn't mean another one is right around the corner.

[DaGreatGazoo]

my guess is all hockey players have had at least one concussion at some point in their career

my 14 yr old has had 1 diagnosed, and probably another one in the last 18 months..he sat for 5 weeks after the "official" one. Baseline testing is a great invention. He also got a new Mission M1 helmet the next day. Point being..if a 14 yr old is getting them..I wouldn't say it's a safe bet, I would say it's a guarantee that most/all NHL players have had one along the way.

[Leach27]

right, the one concussion in 07-08. which hasn't caused him any kind of problem since. how many years have to go by before people decide gagne isn't 3 seconds away from retiring due to that? we're 5 years out from it now. that's a lot of one-hit-aways that haven't actually happened.

my guess is all hockey players have had at least one concussion at some point in their career. my little brother had three growing up, and then went on to play rugby at william and mary for a few years with no problems. the simple fact that a guy has been concussed at some point doesn't mean another one is right around the corner.

Concussions still aren't fully understood by medical professionals, so they do affect people differently. On the other hand just because someone has 1 or 2 or 3, doesn't mean that they will be ok if they have another.

You also can't assume that because another player has a certain experience with concussions, like crosby, doesn't mean someone else will respond the same way. Other examples, primeau, lindros.

p.s - I wasn't saying that another is 3 seconds away. I meant it could be a problem down the road, if you want more specific, the time frame is undefined.

[aziz]

Concussions still aren't fully understood by medical professionals, so they do affect people differently. On the other hand just because someone has 1 or 2 or 3, doesn't mean that they will be ok if they have another.

nor does it mean they are predisposed to having another. some guys have one, and it's a minefield from then on. lafontaine, lindros. others have one and don't seem to have any issues after that. gagne, imo, is an example here.

You also can't assume that because another player has a certain experience with concussions, like crosby, doesn't mean someone else will respond the same way. Other examples, primeau, lindros.

exactly. just because primeau and lindros had lingering problems and increasing incidents don't mean another specific person will. 5 years later gagne has shown zero concussion-related problems or reoccurances.

p.s - I wasn't saying that another is 3 seconds away. I meant it could be a problem down the road, if you want more specific, the time frame is undefined.

as it is for all players. any player at all could get hit hard in the head at any point, and regardless of thier history that hit could end their career. could happen to gagne tonight in nashville, or could happen tomorrow night to giroux. my point is that gagne has absorbed enough contact over the 5 years from his concussion problems that he has proven he is no more likely to end up on gurney than anyone else.

[Mad Dog]

as it is for all players. any player at all could get hit hard in the head at any point, and regardless of thier history that hit could end their career.

Not specifically responding to your point, but brain (or put more specifically, the entire Central Nervous System) is the least studied and understood part of a human body. One person can get pounded to the head and be perfectly fine with showing no recurring symptoms, while the other can be hit once and have serious post-hit issues. The other aspect - aside from re-occurrence - is an immediate response to a hit. As far as I know, Crosby has only had one concussion and see how long it takes him to recover. Scott Stevens has only been concussed once and it caused him to retire. Paul Karya, on the other hand, has been hit on the head multiple times, and, if I am not mistaken, he didn't stop playing specifically because of long-term effects of concussion. But what’s interesting though, most of neurologists will probably agree that having been concussed once increases your chances of being concussed again, when hit on the head.

My point is, it’s hard to make any conclusive statements or being predictive one way or the other. We can’t possibly predict how Gagne will react if/when hit hard again.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Mad Dog