JVR

[Jon Palmer]

He is really starting to tick me off, he has played a good since game 1

[The Quigster]

John are you related to "Irina"?

[Bakanekimiwa]

you could have really put any of their names as the topic header. we're getting beat by a better team. yes, it's very hard to believe. i can hardly believe it, but they are soundly beating us. lavy and our coaching staff have completely failed to adjust the strategy which clearly is NOT working.

[Spinorama]

you could have really put any of their names as the topic header. we're getting beat by a better team. yes, it's very hard to believe. i can hardly believe it, but they are soundly beating us. lavy and our coaching staff have completely failed to adjust the strategy which clearly is NOT working.

indeed, and it is painful. The Flyers just aren't making the adjustments needed. They jump out great and then the Devils figure out whatever it is and shut them down the rest of the way. While I remain hopeful, my expectations have been tempered.

[canoli]

someone please explain it to me like I'm a 6-year old - what coaching adjustments should Lavy have made that coulda/woulda/shoulda made a difference?

when you got guys backing away from taking a hit, guys overskating the puck, passes going directly to Devils ...

I don't know what a HC can do other than throw some different line combos out there. He's done that. It's not like we're suddenly going to play the trap, or transform ourselves into the 90s-era Devils, or the 2012 Rangers. We're getting outworked it's as simple as that.

Dammit if only we still had John Stevens behind the bench. He could bake the boys a cake and then we'd have our swagger back.

[Bakanekimiwa]

someone please explain it to me like I'm a 6-year old - what coaching adjustments should Lavy have made that coulda/woulda/shoulda made a difference?

when you got guys backing away from taking a hit, guys overskating the puck, passes going directly to Devils ...

I don't know what a HC can do other than throw some different line combos out there. He's done that. It's not like we're suddenly going to play the trap, or transform ourselves into the 90s-era Devils, or the 2012 Rangers. We're getting outworked it's as simple as that.

Dammit if only we still had John Stevens behind the bench. He could bake the boys a cake and then we'd have our swagger back.

I'll explain it to you like a 6 y/o... you see little guy, the flyers coach told the team to 'play better'. that was it. he didn't tell them to clean up the crease like I tell you to clean up your toys. he also didn't explain to them that in life patience is a virtue. instead of having your D get tired out by chasing a forecheck all game, you could box out the slot and create turnovers with sticks in lanes and taking the body across the crease.

he didn't teach them how to avoid having their lunch money stolen by Marty. if they had simply, consistently, wrapped pucks high around the glass, he wouldn't have been able to steal their lunch money so much. heck, he might have even given some back. and maybe we would have had a forecheck to speak of.

so you see son, a great lesson in life is being learned yet again. if you continue to do the same thing over and over without producing a different, more positive, result... you will be doomed to repeat your mistakes. change is scary son, but sometimes it's necessary. I just wish Peter thought so too.

[terp]

He is really starting to tick me off, he has played a good since game 1

JvR isn't playing any better or worse than 2/3 of the other Flyers, so no need to single him out. Flyers execution is not very good and they have done a poor job in particular of keeping the puck away from Broduer on dump ins. But the poor execution is for a reason: the Devils are playing very well. They are taking everything away and making the Flyers look bad. Not sure what the full post mortem will be but youth is one of the things being exploited. Flyers are going to have to learn to play a more patient, physical style or they won't get by any of the teams left in the East.

[Orangecat]

I'll explain it to you like a 6 y/o... you see little guy, the flyers coach told the team to 'play better'. that was it. he didn't tell them to clean up the crease like I tell you to clean up your toys. he also didn't explain to them that in life patience is a virtue. instead of having your D get tired out by chasing a forecheck all game, you could box out the slot and create turnovers with sticks in lanes and taking the body across the crease.

he didn't teach them how to avoid having their lunch money stolen by Marty. if they had simply, consistently, wrapped pucks high around the glass, he wouldn't have been able to steal their lunch money so much. heck, he might have even given some back. and maybe we would have had a forecheck to speak of.

so you see son, a great lesson in life is being learned yet again. if you continue to do the same thing over and over without producing a different, more positive, result... you will be doomed to repeat your mistakes. change is scary son, but sometimes it's necessary. I just wish Peter thought so too.

hahaha...sorry, but that's some funny stuff. Funny and true.

[Podein25]

@Bakanekimiwa

I pretty much agree, although I'm not sure whether it's Lavi's coaching or the player's inability to adapt. I could barely stomach watching vets like Jagr dump the puck in so badly that Marty hardly had to work to go get it and rifle a 50 foot pass to the tape of a streaking Devil.

[Bakanekimiwa]

@Bakanekimiwa

I pretty much agree, although I'm not sure whether it's Lavi's coaching or the player's inability to adapt. I could barely stomach watching vets like Jagr dump the puck in so badly that Marty hardly had to work to go get it and rifle a 50 foot pass to the tape of a streaking Devil.

well.. right there. Jagr dumping and chasing. something's just wrong with that.

[Mad Dog]

I think both the players and the coach are to blame for this disaster. The players are getting outwarked. Thats clear as a day and that's all on players. But we also see the other thing going on: the cycling that the Devils pushed on the Flyers since game one. Lavy did all but nothing to counter this maddening cycling. Also, the defensive coverage continues being a joke. I suppose, the players are liable thete, but that crap has been going on pretty much all season long. It is getting old. He shoul'be gotten it taken care of by now.

All in all, this is a perfectly executed gameplan by the Devils. They're being by far a better team, they deserve to move on to the next round.

[PuckMeister]

To all:

Realistically, how many of us remotely thought this team would even make the playoffs this year? Few, I think. Homer did a great job remaking this team, and I think he has taken care of the forward positions for the most part. The org. thought they settled the goalie situation but I,m not convinced this all falls on Bryz-bye. Must be obvious to all that we need to have a defensive makeover next. We are getting abused by the Devils D so we need to address this by getting/drafting bigger, faster, and more mobile D-men.

This is a very young team and I think they spent most of their energy in the first round. Not using this as an excuse, but the kids need to learn from this experience and adjust the emotional level and understand the peaks and valleys of playoff hockey. I am proud of this team for what they have accomplished, and I believe they have a bright future. Can't answer for the coaching because I have no idea what adjustments were offered. Once again, it's wait until next year. Seems this is the motto for Philadelphia teams no matter the sport.

Oh, it is such a pleasure to communicate on this board compared to Philly.com.

Edited May 7, 2012 by PuckMeister

[AndyS]

He is really starting to tick me off, he has played a good since game 1

I almost wonder if the return of Mr. Softy has messed up this team's chemistry.

[OccamsRazor]

I almost wonder if the return of Mr. Softy has messed up this team's chemistry.

Wow weird you should say that cause i was thinking the same thing, something has gone amiss since his reassertion into the lineup, can't explain it.

Seems to have thrown the lines off at the worst time.

Hell if it wasn't for Marty bobbling the puck in the first game it would be a SWEEP!!!!

Edited May 7, 2012 by OccamsRazor

[flyerrod]

the flyers coach told the team to 'play better'. that was it.

Bill Barber?

[canoli]

I'll explain it to you like a 6 y/o... you see little guy, the flyers coach told the team to 'play better'. that was it. he didn't tell them to clean up the crease like I tell you to clean up your toys. he also didn't explain to them that in life patience is a virtue. instead of having your D get tired out by chasing a forecheck all game, you could box out the slot and create turnovers with sticks in lanes and taking the body across the crease.

he didn't teach them how to avoid having their lunch money stolen by Marty. if they had simply, consistently, wrapped pucks high around the glass, he wouldn't have been able to steal their lunch money so much. heck, he might have even given some back. and maybe we would have had a forecheck to speak of.

so you see son, a great lesson in life is being learned yet again. if you continue to do the same thing over and over without producing a different, more positive, result... you will be doomed to repeat your mistakes. change is scary son, but sometimes it's necessary. I just wish Peter thought so too.

Golly gee thanks Dad. This is so cool - you can beat up all the dads in the neighborhood and you know everything Peter Laviolette says to his hockey team - at their practices and their meetings. The press didn't have it but somehow you found out.

Seriously, you have nothing other than "Lavy told them / never told them" speculation?

[mojo1917]

back to JvR, do we think he needs another pass ? the guy was injured for a significant portion of the year.

Do we use him in the offseason to bolster the defense ? or do we hope that the promise he shows becomes his default game rather than the occasional where did that come from game ?

i think i'm inclined to see what he's like when healthy next year, does his hockey iq increase ? does he find the open areas for his shot ? can he find some chemistry with some linemates like he had with simmonds and schenn before his foot broke. he's got great skills and speed i'd hate to see him join the ranks of guys who've blossomed because the flyers weren't patient.

[flyercanuck]

@mojo1917

If someone offers a very good young defenceman for JVR, cya. But I certainly don't just want to get rid of him...until he starts floating yet again.

[radoran]

There aren't a lot of power forwards - as JVR is projected to be - that come in and make an immediate impact. Even guys from junior...

I've gone over the Hartnell comparison several times. JVR, if anything, is about where Hartnell was at a comparable age and projecting to be more of a statistical impact player than Hartnell (admittedly without much of the agitation).

WIth more experience and confidence in being able to pull off some of the moves we've seen on a consistent basis I think he'll be fine.

By locking JVR up for six, the Flyers avoided what happened to Nashville with Hartnell - a series of one-year RFA deals before moving him as he was about to become UFA just as he was emerging as the player they projected when they drafted him.

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

But would you trade him for a good young defenceman?

[radoran]

@radoran

But would you trade him for a good young defenceman?

I'm not adamantly against moving him :-)

I think we've seen that you trade anybody for the right deal.

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

OT...What about the new Dandy Warhols? (see What are you listening to thread)

[aziz]

I've gone over the Hartnell comparison several times. JVR, if anything, is about where Hartnell was at a comparable age and projecting to be more of a statistical impact player than Hartnell (admittedly without much of the agitation).

do you really see any similarities between the two players' games, though? i know they both get that "power forward" label, but....i don't see them playing any where near the same style.

i still don't think JVR has a good head for the game. i think he still has a specific plan when he receives the puck, and tries to execute that plan regardless of how the coverage in front of him develops. the number of passing chances he's ignored and the number of drive-to-the-net plays he has forced in spite of prohibitive backchecking....i don't think he has the ability to adjust as the play unfolds. he is obviously doing the thing he decided to do with no concept of taking advantage of an evolving on-ice situation. watch him tonight, you'll know what he's gonna try to do the second he crosses the blueline, and he'll keep trying to do that even if the play obviously isn't there. this is as opposed to hartnell, who i don't think has a plan, ever, but just works with whatever is in front of him. to a fault, sometimes, but still.

anyway, i don't think there is any basis for a real comparison between the two, outside of the broad power forward designation. two completely different approaches to the game.

[flyerrod]

But I certainly don't just want to get rid of him...until he starts floating yet again.

Well that usually doesn't take long..........He takes off more plays than Pete Rose has signed baseball memorabilia, or anything else for 100 bucks.......

[Digityman]

back to JvR, do we think he needs another pass ? the guy was injured for a significant portion of the year.

Do we use him in the offseason to bolster the defense ? or do we hope that the promise he shows becomes his default game rather than the occasional where did that come from game ?

i think i'm inclined to see what he's like when healthy next year, does his hockey iq increase ? does he find the open areas for his shot ? can he find some chemistry with some linemates like he had with simmonds and schenn before his foot broke. he's got great skills and speed i'd hate to see him join the ranks of guys who've blossomed because the flyers weren't patient.

I agree with @flyercanuck on this. JVR is going to be a good player. He's not going to be great I don't think but a top 50? 40? player during his peak years.

However, IMHO this team is set to peak in the next 1-2 years when the average age is about 27, Bryz is 32-33, Timo's last year, the kids get experience.....

So, if a combination of JVR, Hartnell, Carle, Bob and a decent prospect/pick(s) can land a solid winger for Giroux (Ryan, Nash, Iginla) and a #1/2 dman, I would expect Homer to make the trade.

Carle - $3.44

JVR - $4.25

Pronger - $4.92

Bob - $1.75

Total - $14.36

The lines would look something like this:

???? - Giroux - Jagr (Ryan, Nash, Iginla or similar replaces Hartnell. Jagr resigns at $1.5 million and Voracek fills in for Jagr when he gets tired)

Schenn - Briere - Voracek

Read - Talbot - Simmonds

Wellwood - Couturier - Harry Z

???? - Mez (The best #1 dman they can find that is 25/26/27 years old signed for 5-6 years)

Timo - Coburn

Gus - Grossman

MAB

Bryz / ???? ($1 million backup)

So on 3 positions you can spend $14 million.

For those Hartnell lovers, there is no doubt that Hartnell raised his game this year BUT remember that he is playing with two HOF players on his line. IHowever, Giroux needs someone on his line that can CREATE offense, not just benefit from Giroux's creativity.