Pronger out indefinitely with 'concussion-like' symptoms;Schenn also has a concussion

[aziz]

Am I missing something?

i have a feeling the league and the team's insurance policies probably have some additional guidelines for concussed players...might be they want to hold those off until they are really really sure. beyond that, there's probably at least a little bit of denial involved. plus, i imagine no one wants to add to the concussion storyline, again, unless they are really really sure.

not that i think any of those are good reasons, but the NHL is pretty corporate these days.

[terp]

@aziz

If we shut him down for the season, we can trade Schenn, Walker and a 2nd round pick for Shea Weber. Pronger can stay on LTIR until we buy him out after the latest CBA expires. We all assumed you knew about this impossible to overlook trade scenario.

[aziz]

We all assumed you knew about this impossible to overlook trade scenario.

apparently i wasn't keeping up very well.

couple of things.

1. we don't *know* that there is going to be a penalty-free buyout window next summer.

2. pronger would actually have to be hurt that bad to be kept on the LTIR. if he consistently passes baselines and the flyers appear to have put him on the shelf (or kept him on the shelf) specifically to free up cap space the league can step in and make life miserable. voiding trades, cap penalties, forfitting draft picks.

3. i can't see schenn, walker and a 2nd getting weber. maybe schenn, walker, a 2nd, our next 2 1sts, and JVR. maybe.

4. you might have been kidding. were you kidding? not being a d!ck, i really can't tell...'cause see #3.

[terp]

apparently i wasn't keeping up very well.

I agree with everything you say, except for the part about not being a d!ck.....I WAS (and am still) kidding.

Meanwhile, headcase Bryzgalov's play seems to be improving with unearned starts. If he keeps this up I might even have to admit you were right or at least that you were right for a little while before the wheels ell off again.

[aziz]

If he keeps this up I might even have to admit you were right or at least that you were right for a little while before the wheels ell off again.

lol, i think we will probably be able to serve each other crow on that one back and forth for, well, for 8 1/2 more years.

[hf101]

@aziz

Agreed. It is looking more and more like he is done for the season though.

Being out indefinately, imo, means for the Media to leave Pronger alone......that he won't be ready for the Winter Classic, so quit asking. "We'll (Flyers) tell you when he's better"

He needs to rest for a few months. Come playoffs.......most likely Pronger plays.

[terp]

lol, i think we will probably be able to serve each other crow on that one back and forth for, well, for 8 1/2 more years.

Exactly, what's the rush?

[Vincent05]

Hate to bring this up and some of you will rip me for this. I would keep Schenn right now and see how he turns out, he's just having a bad break. How about we trade Briere for the young dman every1 talks about. I don't think we will win the cup in the next 2 years, by then Briere will be old. With Pronger becoming injury prone and Timo has 1 more year on his contract, wouldn't hurt to bring in the young guy now to learn from either 1 of them. With our young forwards still developing it would be great to let the young dman develope with them.

My other thought. Let's see where we stand at the trade deadline, if we are at the bottom half of the playoff seeding. Trade Briere and/or Timo for 1 or 2 young dman. After the season buyout Pronger if the new CBA let's them, let Carle go. Then we can sign Weber or whoever can fit under the cap, another quick way Homer can retool the defense on the fly. This team would be stack in 3-4 years on forwards and d. We can only Bryzgalov will still hold up.

[Mad Dog]

I have a better idea...trade him to Montreal. They seem to love making deals for over the hill players with ridiculously long contracts.

Wait. I thought those players are Homer's types.

[flyercanuck]

Wait. I thought those players are Homer's types.

Homer signs them to those contracts...Montreal likes to trade for them after they're signed.

[DaGreatGazoo]

@aziz

Hypothetical question...I though of it because of Pronger, but you can do it for any player really. Teams bury players in the minors with regularity, what's to keep the Flyers from cutting a deal with Pronger, waiving him to the Phantoms, and just flat out paying him? The cap number is gone, right? He gets his money, and then the Phantoms just scratch him for the next 3, 4, 5 years. Again, not saying to do this, or it needs to be done, but COULD it be done? Is there anything the NHL would do to prevent it?

[brelic]

@aziz

Hypothetical question...I though of it because of Pronger, but you can do it for any player really. Teams bury players in the minors with regularity, what's to keep the Flyers from cutting a deal with Pronger, waiving him to the Phantoms, and just flat out paying him? The cap number is gone, right? He gets his money, and then the Phantoms just scratch him for the next 3, 4, 5 years. Again, not saying to do this, or it needs to be done, but COULD it be done? Is there anything the NHL would do to prevent it?

No, it cannot be done for contracts that are considered 35+. Pronger's current contract came into effect after his 35th birthday. And the rules for those kinds of contracts are that even if you bury a player in the minors, or even if he 'retires' and doesn't play anymore, the full cap hit will count for the duration of the contract.. i.e. another 6 years.

The Flyers got caught trying to circumvent the cap because they didn't understand the rules.

[mojo1917]

I must agree with those who want to wait and see with regard to Pronger. i hate his contract but there's no denying he's effective on the ice. I too am of the opinion that the Flyers saying he's "out indefinitely" is a signal to him to not try to rush back and cover for him from the press.

as for passing the baseline concussion test, he may have a coup contrecoup type head injury from his head snapping back after the stick caught him in the eye, these type of injuries can be fatal and sometimes the symptoms are delayed, when did they administer the test for concussion ? could also be that he has some kind of staphylococcus infection that hasn't been resolved.

i must say i like that the nhl is taking these head injuries seriously.

and let's not trade schenn until we actually see what we've got; unless the offer is too good to refuse, lumping him in with a couple of guys to get weber (1 guy ) doesn't sound like a too good to be true deal.

[brelic]

I didn't even see Schenn get hit last time he played. Was it bad?

Dude is like the North American version of Gaborik.

[flyercanuck]

@aziz

Hypothetical question...I though of it because of Pronger, but you can do it for any player really. Teams bury players in the minors with regularity, what's to keep the Flyers from cutting a deal with Pronger, waiving him to the Phantoms, and just flat out paying him? The cap number is gone, right? He gets his money, and then the Phantoms just scratch him for the next 3, 4, 5 years. Again, not saying to do this, or it needs to be done, but COULD it be done? Is there anything the NHL would do to prevent it?

We're stuck with Prongers contract, unless someone is stupid enough to trade for it. Whether he plays, retires, goes on IR, goes to the minors, he's a caphit for 5 more years after this season. This is the point a handful of people were trying to make 3 seasons ago when he was still healthy and everyone else was in fantasyland and envisioned Chris Pronger in his prime on our blueline for the duration.

[brelic]

We're stuck with Prongers contract, unless someone is stupid enough to trade for it. Whether he plays, retires, goes on IR, goes to the minors, he's a caphit for 5 more years after this season. This is the point a handful of people were trying to make 3 seasons ago when he was still healthy and everyone else was in fantasyland and envisioned Chris Pronger in his prime on our blueline for the duration.

Actually, his cap hit doesn't count if he's legitimately on LTIR, like Laperriere.

It really comes down to the Flyers not understanding the rules. They thought they were pulling a fast one until they were informed that a 35+ contract is defined by the age of the player when the contract BEGINS, not the age of the player when he signs it. Pronger was 34 when he signed it, but it was an extension that only kicked in the following season when he was over 35.

[DaGreatGazoo]

"sigh"...so much for my creative brilliance. Man, the CBA update better allow for a buyout grace period.

[Vincent05]

Actually, his cap hit doesn't count if he's legitimately on LTIR, like Laperriere.

It hurts them in the offseason when they can't add salary, only when the season starts then they can put him on LTIR and add salary.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Quite a crock of sh!t Homer is asking everyone to eat. 2 quotes, same article..

"Over the last few days, he's had some difficulties - a fairly persistent headache, just a sluggish feeling. . . . So we're just trying to do the right thing here and get him checked out by the doctors in Pittsburgh and see what we're dealing with," Holmgren said after the Flyers held an optional skate in Voorhees. "Is it a concussion? I don't know that we know that just yet. We want to get a better idea, obviously."

Then this one:

There is a chance Schenn will resume skating next week, Holmgren said, adding that the center's head injury seemed less severe than Pronger's.

So, in one quote he says they don't know if it's a concussion and in the next breath he compares Schenn's head injury to Pronger's???

I think he's back on the sauce...seriously. WTF?

[Howie58]

Howdy:

I wonder if we are seeing the end of Pronger's career, shut-down for rest of season or not. From the standpoint of team building/planning, I would rather see that than the Forsberg-style ongoing drama.

Schenn--hard to figure, but we have time to see what transpires. Simmonds may never be more than a journeyman+ but he has great attitude and work ethic.

Best,

Howie