Blog - Internet Philadelphia Flyers Already Have Ryan Suter In Matt Carle

[Irishjim]

by

Geoff Detweiler

I like Matt Carle. I like Matt Carle a lot. This is mostly because he's very good at hockey, but if you know anything about me, it's that I like going against conventional wisdom. Some people would rephrase this to simply say I like telling other people they are wrong. Po-ta-toe, po-tah-toe.

We've been

over this before on BSH, not once but twice. It's not a stretch at this point to say Carle is my favorite Flyer, since he's clearly my favorite player to write about. The guy is really, really good and yet many people have absolutely no idea that this is true.

So on Tuesday, Frank Seravalli wrote a story

on Carle and his impending free agency. It was a solid look at Carle and how he's perceived by those who are going to decide whether or not to sign him in a couple months, and it included this from Seravalli:

In Philadelphia, Carle’s value often goes unrecognized. Some

Flyers

fans may see him as overrated, someone who commits turnovers and accomplishes little when he’s not paired with

Chris Pronger

.

The fact is that is not how Carle is viewed around the NHL, where opposing general managers see him as an under-appreciated, cerebral skater who fluidly transitions from zone-to-zone with little effort. While not overly physical, Carle does not shy away from contact and he is durable. He’s missed just 2 games over the last 3 seasons.

Most noticeably, Carle is consistent nightly, strong positionally and steady with the puck on the power play.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Matt Carle is viewed favorably around the league. He can skate, he plays the point on the PP, he puts up points, and he has a solid plus/minus. Even the dumbest GM in the league

thinks that's worth $33 million over six years.

If you were to read only the comments on Frank's story, however, you'd think Matt Carle was atrocious. Jump for some of the lowlights and yet another comparison of Carle to the NHL's elite defensemen.

[OccamsRazor]

@jimmyperl4...HAHAHA...i read the title thread and must say thank you Jim for making me laugh on such a depressing morning!!!!!!!!!

[terp]

@Irishjim

I agreed with the article prior to the Devils series. Matt Carle looked pretty ordinary. Maybe it's just the nature of a playoff elimination but Carle's stock took a hit from my perspective. I disagree with the title to the thread because Suter is way better than Carle in the offensive zone.

[albertaflyer]

They were talking on TSN the other night that among the players in the league they feel Suter is harder to play against than Webber. Extremely hard to knock off the puck. My pick is he ends up in Detroit. They have the money and the cap space.

[Irishjim]

@jimmyperl4...HAHAHA...i read the title thread and must say thank you Jim for making me laugh on such a depressing morning!!!!!!!!!

I knew this would make you laugh

[Digityman]

I consider Carle a #3/4 dman. He's good on his skates and is usually good positionally. However, he commits turnovers often, can't get the puck through from the point on the power play and his lack of ability to put up points makes him not worth the contract I feel like he is going to try to get. Anything over 3-3.5 million is not worth it IMO.

[orange_crush]

by

Geoff Detweiler

I like Matt Carle. I like Matt Carle a lot. This is mostly because he's very good at hockey, but if you know anything about me, it's that I like going against conventional wisdom. Some people would rephrase this to simply say I like telling other people they are wrong. Po-ta-toe, po-tah-toe.

We've been

over this before on BSH, not once but twice. It's not a stretch at this point to say Carle is my favorite Flyer, since he's clearly my favorite player to write about. The guy is really, really good and yet many people have absolutely no idea that this is true.

So on Tuesday, Frank Seravalli wrote a story

on Carle and his impending free agency. It was a solid look at Carle and how he's perceived by those who are going to decide whether or not to sign him in a couple months, and it included this from Seravalli:

In Philadelphia, Carle’s value often goes unrecognized. Some

Flyers

fans may see him as overrated, someone who commits turnovers and accomplishes little when he’s not paired with

Chris Pronger

.

The fact is that is not how Carle is viewed around the NHL, where opposing general managers see him as an under-appreciated, cerebral skater who fluidly transitions from zone-to-zone with little effort. While not overly physical, Carle does not shy away from contact and he is durable. He’s missed just 2 games over the last 3 seasons.

Most noticeably, Carle is consistent nightly, strong positionally and steady with the puck on the power play.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Matt Carle is viewed favorably around the league. He can skate, he plays the point on the PP, he puts up points, and he has a solid plus/minus. Even the dumbest GM in the league

thinks that's worth $33 million over six years.

If you were to read only the comments on Frank's story, however, you'd think Matt Carle was atrocious. Jump for some of the lowlights and yet another comparison of Carle to the NHL's elite defensemen.

I will celebrate once Carle signs somewhere else...I hated him since day 1...he costs us Downie and is a soft turnover machine..

[OccamsRazor]

@ Jim....well if the Flyers were to invest 6-7 mill on a Dman i would like Weber because his SIZE on the back end and he ADDS more physical play, is younger than Suter.

Suter i'm just not REAL sold on for that kind of money. YET.

Weber already familiar with being a Captain which is want this team needs considering Pronger may be done...and wouldn't want to burden Giroux with that being so young still.

Cap situation will present some challenges for the front office this year though. Guys i'd like not see return...

Carle, JVR, Jagr, Lilja...and Bryz...

...but we're stuck with Bryz till my daughter graduates from high school.

Edited May 9, 2012 by OccamsRazor

[Podein25]

Carle's stock took a hit from my perspective.

In mine too, but not likely in the eyes of his agent. We'll see.

Overall in the playoffs, he was good at times, average at others, brutal at others. But that's not different than almost any other player.

[OccamsRazor]

@ JIMMY..also show Shelley the door...Sestito can take his spot as well. No way in HELL Shelley should make 1.1mill to sit in the press box.

Edit: Why the EFF do i put it to Jim and then it adds a bunch of **** to the name WTF!!!

Edited May 9, 2012 by OccamsRazor

[Bertmega]

good write up on Ryan Suter vs Shea Weber.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/05/09/ryan-suter-or-shea-weber/

Kind of stats heavy but interesting none the less

[terp]

In mine too, but not likely in the eyes of his agent. We'll see.

Overall in the playoffs, he was good at times, average at others, brutal at others. But that's not different than almost any other player.

That's kind of where I am: they all looked bad. Carle is in fact a pretty good defenseman, especially if you keep in mind that all defensemen get burned. It comes with the territory; they make bad passes and they miss coverages and when they do, it often ends up in the back of the net. So the discussion shouldn't be about whether he sucks or is great but what he's worth.

His strengths are out letting or carrying the puck from his own goal line to the opponents blue line. He's also very good defensively, not withstanding the criticism he gets around here for not being a big hitter. However, he's just not very effective on the man advantage and $5MM or more a season is a shocking price for a defenseman who just isn't very good on the PP. The Flyers should not pay that for him.

[Podein25]

the discussion shouldn't be about whether he sucks or is great but what he's worth.

Where's the fun in that?!

Agreed. I think he's ok as a 2nd PP unit precisely because he does move the puck so well, is a good passer and sees the ice better than most.

[JackStraw]

I agreed with the article prior to the Devils series. Matt Carle looked pretty ordinary

So did Claude Giroux and pretty much everyone else on the Flyers. It would be a mistake to make a decision on a player largely on the basis of that series.

[radoran]

Let's go with the theory that Carle is a $5.5M player who the Flyers sign at that number...

That's $24.57M in defense, with Andreas Lilja playing a regular shift and no 7th (Pronger not included)

Flyers have $7.42M wrapped up in goal.

They have $28.71 signed in 11 forwards (excluding Shelley) - with Rinaldo/Wellwood taking regular shifts.

$60.7M.

You haven't signed Voracek ($2.25M RFA), need a 7th (some would say 6th) dman ($1M? Gus/MAB) and you have Rinaldo/Wellwood (Sestito/Harry Z are RFA) out for a regular shift.

It's possible, but tight and, quite frankly, I think the money is better spent on different assets.

I don't think the Flyers sign him at that level, regardless of whether they think he's worth the money.

[terp]

@JackStraw

Everyone looked bad and I posted elsewhere to that effect. This doesn't make Carle a bad hockey player by any means. Still, Carle's performance in the series isn't timely and I think it will hurt him a bit as he seeks terms from the Flyers and others.

[OccamsRazor]

@JackStraw

Everyone looked bad and I posted elsewhere to that effect. This doesn't make Carle a bad hockey player by any means. Still, Carle's performance in the series isn't timely and I think it will hurt him a bit as he seeks terms from the Flyers and others.

Please let that be the case i wish him well (except when facing the Flyers) but its time to move on.

Would rather spend the money else where...the can adjust through out next season.

He's just too soft to beat the Bostons, Rangers and now you can include i guess the NJD to the mix (HELL i'll even throw the Sens and Caps in there).

Must figure out the East first before wondering what will happen if they get to THE CUP!

One step at a time.

These teams will be there next year too i believe.

[JackStraw]

@terp - I agree that he probably didn't help his bargaining position with his play in the playoffs.

[terp]

@terp - I agree that he probably didn't help his bargaining position with his play in the playoffs.

Maybe because he sucked in the playoffs the Flyers can afford him now. I think that's called irony or something.

[idahophilly]

Let's go with the theory that Carle is a $5.5M player who the Flyers sign at that number...

That's $24.57M in defense, with Andreas Lilja playing a regular shift and no 7th (Pronger not included)

Flyers have $7.42M wrapped up in goal.

They have $28.71 signed in 11 forwards (excluding Shelley) - with Rinaldo/Wellwood taking regular shifts.

$60.7M.

You haven't signed Voracek ($2.25M RFA), need a 7th (some would say 6th) dman ($1M? Gus/MAB) and you have Rinaldo/Wellwood (Sestito/Harry Z are RFA) out for a regular shift.

It's possible, but tight and, quite frankly, I think the money is better spent on different assets.

I don't think the Flyers sign him at that level, regardless of whether they think he's worth the money.

On other assets? I TOTALY agree. No Weber! Everyone forgets he also gonna cost us 4 1st round picks!!! No frickin way! And we will have zero manuvering room to do any thing else...

[DaGreatGazoo]

Even the dumbest GM in the league

thinks that's worth $33 million over six years.

Not a Carle hater, but SEE YA LATER, at those numbers.

[mojo1917]

the james wisnewski deal fuqued us all but good. that will be the baseline contract agents will use to asses value.... bastards.

[hf101]

@radoran

I don't think the Flyers sign him at that level, regardless of whether they think he's worth the money.

me neither. Holmgren has made a point to re-sign Coburn, Meszaros, and Grossman, if Carle was to sign here I believe it would have been done prior to the end of the season.

Possibly Carle doesn't want to sign here also. He probably has already made the choice to test Free Agency.

[JackStraw]

the james wisnewski deal fuqued us all but good. that will be the baseline contract agents will use to asses value.... bastards.

Well, the flipside of that deal is Nicklas Kronwall's new deal- $4.75 million per for 7 years. Term is on the long side, but I I think Carle is worth that money (I think Kronwall is probably worth more).

[hf101]

@JackStraw

(I think Kronwall is probably worth more).

he sure is.....he is the only concussion causing d-man that doesn't get suspended