Go Weber or go home

[toughbrotherlylove]

Obviously everyone knows that the Flyers major concern this offseason will be defensemen. Not only is Pronger’s health a huge concern, but also Timonen’s age. The Flyers already loss Pronger, in my mind, for the rest of his career and you could see Kimmo slipping a little bit down the stretch and in the playoffs this year. With these two staple defensemen basically done in the orange and black, it is up to Homer to right the ship on this position. He can start by going out and getting another big time d-man and also draft heavy at the position so we have a deep line of prospects there to develop.

When I say get a big name defensemen everyone is going to turn to Weber or Suter, my opinion on this matter is, go Weber or go home. Weber is the type of defensemen Philly needs more than anything. He is 26 years old, big body at 6”4 230, and he is not afraid to use it with crushing hits or blocking shots. He has a ROCKET of a right-handed shot and to top it off he has leadership qualities that you look for to stabilize the back end. Homer needs to do whatever he can to get this guy, even though it could be a stretch, because Philly desperately needs him.

The reason I say “go Weber or go home” and disregard Suter is because if the Flyers can sign Carle, for rumored less than market value because he wants to stay in Philly, then there is no reason to spend a lot more money on Suter when the two are comparable. Yes I said they are comparable. I have read tons of articles on this over the past months and it is true. Carle gets a bad rep from Philly fans because they watch him for 82 games of the season and the duration of the playoffs, but how many times do they watch Suter. I have heard people say Carle was only good before cause Pronger was on the opposite side of him. Well who is on the opposite side of Suter? What is Shea Weber, chop liver? Carle is a fairly reliable defensemen with good ability to get the puck going the other way. Yes I understand he has costly turnovers at times, but what defensemen doesn’t? I know for a fact Suter does because I have watched him. If the Flyers were to bring Suter in at $5-6+ mill cap hit, compared to Carle’s $4-4.5 mill, and see him make the same mistakes as Carle would for that much more, well I have a feeling all would not be well.

I do understand to resign Carle and to go out and get Weber some how, cap would have to be relieved and that is where our offensive depth comes into play. Right now, according to Capgeek.com, we have a little over $3mill in cap space for next season. Homer said earlier he expects the cap to go up to $69 million, plus LTIR relief of Pronger when season comes around, would allow Flyers cap space/relief of $73.9 mill, which would increase the Flyers cap space to $12.7 mill for the 2012-2013 season. I also understand that the CBA expires and this new cap and LTIR rules are not necessarily set in stone. With that $12.7 mill say Flyers sign Weber (RFA) or trade for his rights, and if he makes same $7.5 cap hit, that brings them to $5.2 mill. Then if they chose to resign Carle at that point for $4.5(same as Coburn cap hit) that leaves them with 700k in cap space, and D parings of Weber-Carle, Coburn-Grossmann, Timonen-Mesz.

Another scenario is sign Weber; you are left with the $5.2 mill cap hit. Then do a trade of JVR for L. Schenn, which would actually give the Flyers 650k worth of cap space back, bringing total cap space to $5.85 mill. With this money you can then resign Voracek (no matter what they should resign him), and other depth players via FA. D-parings would look like this Weber – Grossman, Couburn - Mesz, and L.Scheen –Timonen. Also I would like to see, in that JVR- Schenn trade, the Flyers try to pry Toronto’s 1^st round pick away from them. If we can, then we would be able to draft WHL defensemen Ryan Murray, if he is available still, Morgan Rielly, or Mathew Dumba. All three would be a great start to building prospects in the defensive position.

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Edited May 15, 2012 by toughbrotherlylove

[idahophilly]

I DON'T WANT WEBER ! FOR THE LAST TIME , 4 1ST ROUNDS PICKS AND 7-8 MILLION PER SEASON! no thank you...

[Phillygrump]

@idahophilly

You might be able to get Weber as a free agent in two years right? Maybe you can trade for his rights at the draft this season and it won't cost 4 1sts. I think there are other ways you can get Weber.

[aziz]

@idahophilly

well, if you are ever going to spend those picks, it would be on a guy like weber. i mean, what are you going to get from the draft that is better than a 50 point shutdown dman (on a defensive team, mind you, imagine those point totals with a few elite offensive players at his disposal) who plays a hugely physical game?

my only problem is what if he wants more than $7.5mil. what if he think he can get $9mil? how much is he worth?

[Phillygrump]

@idahophilly

Still, I think its a pipe dream because Suter is going to leave via free agency and then I imagine Nashville and Weber will commit.

[toughbrotherlylove]

Those are my thoughts too. The Flyers can not afford to get in a bidding war with Weber because if Nashville loses Suter to say Detroit, then they will have tons of cap space to sign/match any offer sheet thrown at Weber. Flyers need to trade for his rights if they have a hope of signing him. But if somehow they can outbid Nashville for Weber in a offer sheet, I do think 4 1st's would be worth it. Even after those 4 years of not having a 1st round pick, Weber still would be only 30 and have some more good playing years ahead of him. Plus you could always try to acquire others first round picks throughout the course of seasons if push come to shove.

Edited May 15, 2012 by toughbrotherlylove

[Phillygrump]

@toughbrotherlylove

I heard before that there was an issue between Weber and Nashville where Weber felt that Nashville wasn't committed to winning and he was hesitant to re-sign because of that.

[toughbrotherlylove]

@toughbrotherlylove

I heard before that there was an issue between Weber and Nashville where Weber felt that Nashville wasn't committed to winning and he was hesitant to re-sign because of that.

If that is the case maybe they will try and trade his rights and resign suter. In which case, what do you guys think would be a fair trade to acquire the rights of Shea Weber?

[DaGreatGazoo]

what do you guys think would be a fair trade to acquire the rights of Shea Weber?

Bryz for Weber's rights, AND Rinne.

[toughbrotherlylove]

Bryz for Weber's rights, AND Rinne.

lol only in a perfect world. I wish

[DaGreatGazoo]

@toughbrotherlylove

I know..imagine...btw..welcome to the board. Will make sure to hit your blog regularly.

[toughbrotherlylove]

@toughbrotherlylove

I know..imagine...btw..welcome to the board. Will make sure to hit your blog regularly.

Thank you! I appreciate it.

[flyercanuck]

I DON'T WANT WEBER ! FOR THE LAST TIME , 4 1ST ROUNDS PICKS AND 7-8 MILLION PER SEASON! no thank you...

We basically gave up 4 -1st round picks for Pronger, who was on his last legs. We got a season and a half out of him.

Weber hasn't even reached his prime yet, and plays like a MOBILE healthy Chris Pronger. With some of the stupid contracts we have, I doubt we can pay him $9 million a year. But if he'd take a bit less than that, he'd be well worth it. Put it this way, if we paid him a miilion a year more than Timonen (when he comes off the books) do you not think the team instantly becomes a lot better?

[Clarke2Leach]

I'm not a big fan of this shoot for the moon mentality but in Weber's case I make an exception. IF Weber can be had,get him and then start shedding salaries accordingly.

[idahophilly]

We basically gave up 4 -1st round picks for Pronger, who was on his last legs. We got a season and a half out of him.

Yep ! Did we learn from that or not? Don't over pay with all your eggs in one basket!??????????????

[idahophilly]

I'm not a big fan of this shoot for the moon mentality but in Weber's case I make an exception. IF Weber can be had,get him and then start shedding salaries accordingly.

No way, who are we going to get rid of except maybe JVR???? We get Weber we probablly will have created 1-2 other holes in our roster, For What? Weber can get hurt just as fast as the next guy. I'd rather have 2 50% Webers's than 1 100% Weber....

[flyercanuck]

@idahophilly

Don't go after players past their prime is what i got out of it. There aren't a lot of players i'd give up 4-1st rounders for, but there are some. And Weber is near the top of that list.

[aziz]

Don't go after players past their prime is what i got out of it. There aren't a lot of players i'd give up 4-1st rounders for, but there are some. And Weber is near the top of that list.

this, exactly. normally, i don't like chasing big names, but now and then there is one that is worth the price. weber is one of them.

[Spinorama]

@idahophilly

Don't go after players past their prime is what i got out of it. There aren't a lot of players i'd give up 4-1st rounders for, but there are some. And Weber is near the top of that list.

that really is it. The Pronger deal was going to be tough enough as it was because we all knew we were going to be watching a good player fall from grace for the duration of his contract and hope we get some of what made him the player he was for as long as possible. You can't really factor his injury into the equation because who could possibly see that happening prior to signing a deal. If that stick hit him just a little over, it would've been in his eye and that would've been the end of it, no matter what age he was.

With Weber, if you have a chance to acquire a proven player who is still young then you HAVE to at least look at it. 4 1sts (if that's the route it would go) would be tough to swallow but then again, 1st round picks still have to come into the league, adapt and show they can play at this level, a relative unknown. I'm also skeptical like Idaho with paying that sum of money every year but again, if he's gonna give you want you want then why not look at it, especially since it's the D position we are talking about where it is slim pickings these days.

[Digityman]

Let's be honest, those 1st round picks are really late first rounders, escentially 2nd rounders. Weber is worth 4 second rounders hands down

[Digityman]

I'm not a big fan of this shoot for the moon mentality but in Weber's case I make an exception. IF Weber can be had,get him and then start shedding salaries accordingly.

Harts and timo come off the books soon, followed by briere. It is possible because of the youth movement on this team but homer will have to pull more magic out of his hat (which we all know is something he is good at)

[mojo1917]

Even after those 4 years of not having a 1st round pick, Weber still would be only 30 and have some more good playing years ahead of him. Plus you could always try to acquire others first round picks throughout the course of seasons if push come to shove.

plus, the rangers top blue line minute man (McDonough) came from the NCAA. there are free agents available , namely college players that can at least provide depth players for the organization during the years where there is no number one pick. Homer has done a pretty good job with his top picks so it is likely that unless other avenues are scoured it could hurt the team long term... as i think about it, weber may be worth the price, in terms of assets, but when you add the possibility of a 9 million a year cap hit and... well it's a lot to consider. to say the least.

plus if we some how pull it off and then somehow win a cup i won't give a rats ass about 4 late first round picks. a cup is worth a couple of years grace in my book, with the core of this team he could be the lynch pin on a team that wins several.

Edited May 16, 2012 by mojo1917

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Weber isn't going anywhere this year. Nashville isn't going to trade him and they will match any offer sheet he is signed to. He won't be available until he's a UFA.

[hf101]

@idahophilly

No way, who are we going to get rid of except maybe JVR???? We get Weber we probablly will have created 1-2 other holes in our roster, For What? Weber can get hurt just as fast as the next guy. I'd rather have 2 50% Webers's than 1 100% Weber....

I agree, Weber won't be a Flyer. Holmgren can't possibly sign him with Pronger on the cap. We can only go 10% over the limit.

As a Free Agent, why would Weber want to come here? Other teams can give him more money, and more leadership. Detroit is positioned much better to acquire him.

Practically every year the Flyers have come up short in the playoffs due to injuries to their top high paid d-man. Dejardans, Hatcher, Timonen, Pronger. .......ENOUGH. Build a defensive team solid players. .....no superstar. Seriously for the price tag of 7M you can get two quality d-men.

If I were GM, I would make a trade for Roman Josi.

[radoran]

Nashville has 11 guys signed for next season.

They can keep both Weber and Suter if they want them. And Suter wants to stay.

They did everything they could to prove to Weber/Suter that they want to "win now" - and they would be in a very nice position with a backend starting with Weber, Suter and Rinne.