Blog - Internet Injuries got best of James van Riemsdyk in long season

[Podein25]

@JackStraw

Kane has talent, but he's a bit one-dimensional. And small.

JVR has size as well as speed and skill.

[sarsippius]

@JackStraw

JVR has size as well as speed and skill.

Yup, now if we can just get him some testicles.....

[JackStraw]

@Podein25 - couldn't have said it better myself.

[terp]

I agree about potential but my point was simply that he's not there YET. The true gamble is whether his heart is able to live up to his potential. Barring any recurring injuries if course, which I don't wish upon anybody. I'd take Kane over JVR right now. Give it a season or two though and that may reverse.

After factoring in Kane's rap sheet and his cap hit, I suspect Chicago might trade Kane even up for JvR at this point.

[OccamsRazor]

@JackStraw

Kane has talent, but he's a bit one-dimensional. And small.

JVR has size as well as speed and skill.

Yet has no heart...and is inconsistent as HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Podein25]

@OccamsRazor

Yes, I know. To recap:

size: check

skill: check

speed: check

testicles: none

heart: none

brain: uncertain

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor

Yes, I know. To recap:

size: check

skill: check

speed: check

testicles: none

heart: none

brain: uncertain

Now after all you mentioned, would you be comfortable with handing him 4.25 million for the next 5 for "potential"and if so then where are you about to price or more like out price yourself when it comes to Voracek.

I feel for some reason they may do everything they can to move him for help on the blueline...or even cap relief.

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

if JvR just plays okay and to me that is 20/25-35, his cap number would be a little high, if he stays healthy, which i think is a big factor when it comes to having heart and balls or whatever, and plays to his ceiling he will be a steal at that number. and he'll be locked in at that number for a while, sometimes you need to think long game & not just what have you done for me lately, plus did you see the list of injuries the guy had ? i have a hard time calling him a sissy playing with an infected , formerly broken foot, after a concussion and oblique tear etc etc.

Edited May 23, 2012 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor

if JvR just plays okay and to me that is 20/25-35, his cap number would be a little high, if he stays healthy, which i think is a big factor when it comes to having heart and balls or whatever, and plays to his ceiling he will be a steal at that number. and he'll be locked in at that number for a while, sometimes you need to think long game & not just what have you done for me lately, plus did you see the list of injuries the guy had ? i have a hard time calling him a sissy playing with an infected , formerly broken foot, after a concussion and oblique tear etc etc.

Ok then i will...JVR you're a SISSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vanflyer]

@mojo1917

"I think Kane is as good as he will get, which is good. but he's not going to suddenly figure out how to use his size better."

Kane is listed as 5'11 180lbs. What should he really do with ALL THAT SIZE??

I am not a Kane fan on of off the ice as I agree he is what is going to be (a 65pt one dimensional player that needs good linemates to help him and not the other way around), but size does not come into the equation of his game as he has none. Its like saying Briere should use his size better. :-)

[flyercanuck]

@Vanflyer

Kane is about Girouxs size. I've seen Claude throw some nice bodychecks. Kane? No.

[Vanflyer]

@flyercanuck

Fair enough, but to call out a "smallish" player for not using his size (like he is JVR / Carters height) is a bit odd to me.

Also, Kanes and Giroux body types are completely different. Giroux is same height but "stocky" (and weighs less than Kane). Kane is a thin guy. I know splitting hairs. I when I read the OP note about not using his size it came across like he was Bundy. Ya know what I am saying?? :-)

[mojo1917]

@mojo1917

"I think Kane is as good as he will get, which is good. but he's not going to suddenly figure out how to use his size better."

Kane is listed as 5'11 180lbs. What should he really do with ALL THAT SIZE??

I am not a Kane fan on of off the ice as I agree he is what is going to be (a 65pt one dimensional player that needs good linemates to help him and not the other way around), but size does not come into the equation of his game as he has none. Its like saying Briere should use his size better. :-)

right think of it as a comparison. oh wait Kane has no size, well how will he develop that part of his game... the one he will never have..

get it ?

[Vanflyer]

@mojo1917

It's still flying over my head. But if you are meaning you were using sarcasm, then I get it. :-)

Stupid is as stupid does (me)

Cheers! :-)

[mojo1917]

@Vanflyer

not sarcasm, jvr has a large frame to grow into , he's not done getting his "man weight". Kane will never have 6'2/ 215lbs and to this point in his life JvR hasn't had it for long so it's new to him.

Kane = finished product. JvR = talent with size to grow into. a whole dimension that does not exist for kane.

Edited May 24, 2012 by mojo1917

[Vanflyer]

@mojo1917

Ok, I am just reading impaired then because I thought you were referring to KANE needing to use his size more. If you are referring to JVR, I totally agree and think allot of it has to do with his confidence. I also believe that JVR has a Nash body type vs. a Carter body type. Meaning that Nash is 6'4 and 220 (when he is not eating donuts) and Carter is 6'3 and 200lbs soaking wet. You put 10-12 lbs of muscle on JVR and retain the speed, he will be a monster. That confidence to overpower 90% of the league will go a long way.

[mojo1917]

@Vanflyer

no worries, probably wasn't my finest bit of writing either, so I can see the disconnect.

[terp]

After the Flyers were eliminated by Boston in the spring of 2011, many critics of the team reluctantly shifted their hatred away from JvR and onto more "deserving" players. However, while JvR wasn't able to play a lot in the 2011-2012 campaign, he nonetheless thrilled many fans by opening the door to renewed, irrational bashing. In a season in which he suffered a hip injury, groin strains, ab and oblique tears, a concussion and a broken foot, appearing sporadically in a total of only 43 games, JvR was nonetheless able to firmly reestablish his bona fides as a genuine slacker, head case and complete bust, an impressive achievement despite the fact that he apparently was hurt the entire season.

Seriously people. Don't you think this crosses the line into irrational bashing? Give it a rest and judge him after he plays another season.

[JackStraw]

In a season in which he suffered a hip injury, groin strains, ab and oblique tears, a concussion and a broken foot, appearing sporadically in a total of only 43 games, JvR was nonetheless able to firmly reestablish his bona fides as a genuine slacker, head case and complete bust

It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Seriously people. Don't you think this crosses the line into irrational bashing? Give it a rest and judge him after he plays another season

I don't think it does...Max Talbot has 20% of the talent that JVR has, but I don't see anyone questioning him..why, because it's about effort/working hard/showing up. Outside of a playoff series JVR has not done that for the Flyers on a consistent basis. For that reason, people hammer him, and IMO, rightfully so.

The kid was injured this year..not hurt..injured, BIG TIME. He should get a pass for this past season for that reason alone. However, no one, including JVR, will ever get a pass for not giving 100%--especially not in Philly. Until he starts doing that, people-including me-will doubt him and question him.

I want him to be the 2nd coming of Rick Nash, I want him to succeed, the Flyers will be better for it, but as of now, I have doubts.

[mojo1917]

@terp

@JackStraw

LOL

you guys are the goods !

[Polaris922]

Two very different players I guess in my eyes. I don't know that the Hawks are too worried about his rap sheet. He's young and too skilled for them to trash him over it. One dimensional perhaps, but it's a very good dimension. I don't argue JVR could become a great power forward, but that's been said of many players, and most don't live up to that potential. We'll all be watching I think...

[Vanflyer]

@Polaris922, @all

"Two very different players I guess in my eyes. I don't know that the Hawks are too worried about his rap sheet. He's young and too skilled for them to trash him over it. One dimensional perhaps, but it's a very good dimension. I don't argue JVR could become a great power forward, but that's been said of many players, and most don't live up to that potential. We'll all be watching I think..."

I agree on two very different type of players comment. Kane is skilled for sure and CAN be a game changer. But do you like him 6.3m worth?? I would take Richards OR Carter over him (salary wise to production / hockey player). JVR is moving into his payday as a pro player next season. I think he is going to be out to prove everyone wrong. Power forwards do take time. I think most of the lament / criticism of the Flyer fan base is the presumed assumption that he does not have "fire" or "heart".

The same was said of Carter, but that game 5 I watched the other night, I thought he was one of the best players on the ice. Jeff Carter is now 27. JVR is 23. This has to be his year to blossom.

People often forget that chemistry is everything in hockey. I would love to see the JVR-Schenn-Simmonds line reunited as they had great chemistry AND energy when they played together.

Lastly, JVR is set to make 4.25m this year. In his career thus far he has averaged .55 points per game. Hartnell has averaged .64 ppg (elevated because of his career year) in his tenure with the Flyers and makes the same as JVR.

I guess my point is that people just need to let off the gas a bit. If JVR can be a cornerstone to a STUD dman, ok. Otherwise, let the kid get healthy, stronger, confident and play.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922, @all

"Two very different players I guess in my eyes. I don't know that the Hawks are too worried about his rap sheet. He's young and too skilled for them to trash him over it. One dimensional perhaps, but it's a very good dimension. I don't argue JVR could become a great power forward, but that's been said of many players, and most don't live up to that potential. We'll all be watching I think..."

I agree on two very different type of players comment. Kane is skilled for sure and CAN be a game changer. But do you like him 6.3m worth?? I would take Richards OR Carter over him (salary wise to production / hockey player). JVR is moving into his payday as a pro player next season. I think he is going to be out to prove everyone wrong. Power forwards do take time. I think most of the lament / criticism of the Flyer fan base is the presumed assumption that he does not have "fire" or "heart".

The same was said of Carter, but that game 5 I watched the other night, I thought he was one of the best players on the ice. Jeff Carter is now 27. JVR is 23. This has to be his year to blossom.

People often forget that chemistry is everything in hockey. I would love to see the JVR-Schenn-Simmonds line reunited as they had great chemistry AND energy when they played together.

Lastly, JVR is set to make 4.25m this year. In his career thus far he has averaged .55 points per game. Hartnell has averaged .64 ppg (elevated because of his career year) in his tenure with the Flyers and makes the same as JVR.

I guess my point is that people just need to let off the gas a bit. If JVR can be a cornerstone to a STUD dman, ok. Otherwise, let the kid get healthy, stronger, confident and play.

I agree. I don't care what fans get on whom obviously not my team, but in the straight hockey talk of it I think he's already more skilled than Hartnell and can get better given time. As for the 6.3 mill for Kane there are a few players I would rather have for the money, but I also wouldn't be paying JvR that yet either. It will be interesting to see how JvR performs this year if he can stay healthy.

[JackStraw]

I don't know that the Hawks are too worried about his rap sheet

I would be surprised if they traded him, but he clearly is generating some concern in Chicago:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-reasons-to-trade-patrick-kane-20120514,0,746180.column

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/ct-spt-0514-blackhawks-chicago--20120514,0,5931347.story