Tampa 1-3-1 And Possible Nhl Intervention

[brelic]

OK, throw the puck behind the net so no one has it but skate around in little circles about 10 foot away until they have to break the 1-3-1... Seriosly can't believe you are even remotly defending this. I don't want more power to the refs but.... Finally a team exposes this crap. ALL 29 other teams don't do this...

I'm not defending the trap, I'm defending a team's right to do whatever the hell it wants within the rules. No one said it had to be pretty.

[aziz]

skate around in little circles about 10 foot away until they have to break the 1-3-1...

why would they "have to break the 1-3-1"? how is sitting down and refusing the play accomplishing anything? the bolts refused to forecheck, and the flyers refused to breakout. who is the bad guy there?

what's the difference between what the bolts did at even strength and what every team does on the penalty kill? with that one defender WAY deep, the breakout is essentially a 5 on 4. well done showing the world how little the bolts trust their D or their goalies, but now go ahead and play the game, please.

[canoli]

oh sorry, yeah I see. I didn't read what you had quoted, which puts your reply in context.

Ya Lavy certainly showed everyone the ultimate response to a 1-3-1. But it's a hollow victory imo when your team only takes 14 shots and scores once in 65 minutes.

[TedZep]

Once the Flyers got the 1-0 lead, they should have just stayed in their zone, circling & cycling, for the rest of the game or until the Lightning players came and tried to get the puck. It's in Tampa, if they want to bore their fans, so be it.

Bryzgalov got away with a hold once, but the Lightning got away with easily half a dozen cases of clear interference. Call a few of those and the trap is broken.

[AJgoal]

I hated the way it looked, from both ends of the ice. Not sure I want the NHL to do anything about it though... I'd prefer teams find a consistent way to beat it and force Tampa to abandon it - although I admit I don't know what it is. But 23rd in goals against says to me it isn't impossible. The more the NHL legislates, the more open to interpretation the rules will get, and we'll just have more penalties per game than we already do now.

[B21]

The whole thing was a fkng joke, and I don't believe for a second that Milbury "walked out in protest." I bet anything he was already scheduled to leave the studio after 2. Whatever.

I think Mikey may have needed some Immodium and the rant was a cover for some liquid shitz.

He's turning into Cherry without the hideous get-ups.

[Dynamo 47]

i have to disagree with this completely. you can't start getting into the league mandating a forecheck. yes, it's lame that tampa plays that system, but it isn't unbeatable. i liked that the flyers embarassed the lightning once or twice by illustrating how do-nothing their system is...but in the end, it was the flyers who refused to engage. in the end, any rule implimented would have to be that the posessing team must make an attempt to advance the puck, not that the defending team must commit in the offensive zone to facilitate the other team's breakout.

i don't really understand what the problem is, to be honest. with one man deep, the lightning are outnumbered in the neutral zone. it's a zone defense...the team in posession of the puck should be able to isolate and overload individual tampa players coming through neutral. you don't see a ton of 7 foot give-and-goes in the defensive half of the neutral zone, but they would cut through that "forecheck" like butter.

it's on the other teams to adapt and overcome. the trap of the late 90's hurt hockey, but that trap was accompanied by uncalled interference all over the place. it isn't the same now. now, the lightning, imo, are hurting themselves by sitting in an immobile and predictable zone defense that can be skated through. a bit of scouting, a bit of tape watching, and a few short, solid passes should create speed and outnumbered situations through the neutral zone. certainly nothing that needs to be legislated out of the game.

You have several good points aziz. It is basically a zone defense and as such is easy to spot when they are sitting like that in the neutral zone. In a case like last night it would be a perfect time for a delay of game. Given there are no rules against it now, the ref would be powerless to enforce it but i would not be at all surprised if there isn't some serious thought given to penalizing it.

Your other good point was (and would be my way of attacking it) is that their players are stationary in the neutral zone. If you have players heading up ice with a head of steam they are either going to force them to react or simply have some darn good passing to break it. Not wanting to be caught "flat footed" is as old as the game itself. Same premise as when a team has puck possession in the opponents zone. If the Flyers are skating and cycling and the other team is flat footed then you get good scoring chances.

I have to disagree with any rule stating the possessing team attempt to move the puck because in that case they are playing right into the 1-3-1 strength if it's already established.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong way to deal with it but the league had to be pretty unhappy with it last night as it makes for some bad hockey.

[Dynamo 47]

Once the Flyers got the 1-0 lead, they should have just stayed in their zone, circling & cycling, for the rest of the game or until the Lightning players came and tried to get the puck. It's in Tampa, if they want to bore their fans, so be it.

Bryzgalov got away with a hold once, but the Lightning got away with easily half a dozen cases of clear interference. Call a few of those and the trap is broken.

Good point and I noted something similar in my reply to aziz. If players have their legs moving and receive a pass with momentum, the Bolts are there in the neutral zone flat footed. They are either going to have to hold or hook or something or risk being blown by. Go shorthanded enough and they will abandon it.

[Digityman]

Alright I might take some heat for this.....and it's really just a thought I had during the game last night.

What about moving a change in the rules for icing?

Move it back to the your blue line....

Would that solve anything or cause more problems?

[idahophilly]

I was not arguing for MORE legislation by the league. Alls I'm saying is that was, and is a total crappy way of playing hockey by Tampa and I have no problem with what the Flyers did (and neither did any anaylist or all the players from around the league who were tweeting - I mean frickin' Milbury walked off the set on live TV disgusted!). So, I don't care if the Flyers or any other team circles in their zone THE ENTIRE GAME. If that's what Tampa fans want then that's what they get and they can win or loose all those 2-1 games they want. All that talant. What a waste!

Now, the idea of breaking this trap by getting a huge head of steam up and charging into the zone and probably drawing all sort of penalties and catching them flat footed is worth a major try.

However, the NHL DOES have a responsibility to its brand and the game and if this proves to be a problem then I won't fault them for making a new rule for delay of game for trapping. We would have nothing to worry about because we don't trap.

And just a side note, if this is so "OK", why don't the other 29 teams use it? They don't! Because they know how to play the game honorably. So, to all those that think it's ok I'll wait and see how you feel when 2 teams are playing 1-3-1 traps at the same time..........

[Phlyer1]

To all It is time for some Fred Shero. Dump the puck in the corner and go in and hammer the guy and take the puck off him,

[Podein25]

Take the shortest route to the puck and arrive in ill-humour. Best advice ever given to any hockey player. My dad used to repeat this and similar sentiments to me constantly

[idahophilly]

To all It is time for some Fred Shero. Dump the puck in the corner and go in and hammer the guy and take the puck off him,

yeah, and as much as hate to say this, you'll take allot of penalties doing it....

[Lindbergh31]

Strategy in exposing this crap.

The problem is there will be at least 10 mediocre teams that will trap like Tampa Bay just to win some games. Lavi should have had a game plan to counter the trap but he didn't. It looks bad on the league overall, the last thing the league wants is to see the game go back to the way it was played in the mid 90's with the Devils. It's too bad the Flyers didn't win in regulation to make Boucher look like a fool for playing this system when he has players on his team like Stamkos, St.Louis and Lecavalier and he's basically handcuffed them from being creative by playing the trap. I don't mind a 2-1 game as long as both teams are getting lots of chances and the goalies are playing well.

[aziz]

And just a side note, if this is so "OK", why don't the other 29 teams use it? They don't! Because they know how to play the game honorably.

well, i don't know about that. i think 29 other teams don't do it because it's a bad idea. it may work when you have an out of division team coming in to play you once, because they haven't spent any time working out how to get past it. it may work when your divisional opponents are all terrible. but give a good team a day to watch tape and two days to practice, and they'll pick the system apart.

you can bet laviolette will watch tape of tampa's games immediately preceeding the december 10th meeting. if tampa is still working this lame no-forecheck system, the flyers will light them up.

think about it: pronger skates directly at the center at the blueline, with carle in close support. eventually the center has to step up to pronger, so pronger slides the puck to carle, who then skates directly at the strong side winger covering the red line. eventually the winger has to step up to carle, freeing the flyers' winger on that side, so carle slides to that winger, who now can step over the opposing blue line. because it is a strict zone system, no one can slide over to support the defender being isolated without opening a gap in their coverage. system beaten. done with speed, system beaten badly.

given the chance for the opposing team to work something out, it is a poor way to play the game. it only works if the other team hasn't gone over counters, because most breakouts assume they will have to work through pressure deep. now that the flyers (and the league) know exactly what is going on, how rigidly the thing is being implimented, the problem is kind of already solved.

[hf101]

I think some of the problem has to lie with the Flyers defense and their own line changes. The defense needs to carry or pass the puck up the ice faster during these changes, thus not allowing Tampa to set themselves up in the 1-3-1. Our defense often tends to sit back waiting for the forwards to be in proper place before moving the puck up the ice. For what ever reason this sitting back to set up tends to happen more with Pronger.

[KnucklesNilan]

I would've fired the puck right at the first guy standing at the blue line... that should get him to move!

[terp]

The big surprise to me was how overwhelmingly pro-Flyers the response was (it does take a lot to get people to applaud anything the Flyers do, so this is news). I would have thought the typical response would be more along the lines of "oh well, its boring but nothing can be done...".

But no. People are outraged by the Bolts and supportive of the Flyers. I sense the issue will have legs at the governor's meeting if the Bolts don't voluntarily agree not to run the 1-3-1.

Also, maybe the 1-3-1 explains how a team can have half its payroll tied up in 3-4 guys and go to the conference finals.

OT: packed my bags and left the old forum this morning. Turned off my notifications and mothballed my screen name. I imagine Rick is still over there ranting by himself.

[aziz]

welcome home, terp.

[idahophilly]

What I'm shocked about is the amount of support for the Bolts here in Flyerdom and the opinion of a few about how the Flyers came up short in not attacking through the 1-3-1 ! The first thing said is "it's not against the rules" to do the 1-3-1. Well, perhaps not. But I don't need laws ans rules to know how to act honorably. If the first thing I have to ask myself is "can i get away with it? Is it in the rule book" then you have already crossed the line. I guess i love the game to much... EVERY team should do this to them to embarress them.

What I DON'T get is how the Tampa fans put up with this crap... They havn't won anything since last year when this 1-3-1 thing started for them yet the fans keep forking over the money to watch this...?

Overwhelming analyst and other teams support for the Flyers actions last night. That says something...

[aziz]

But I don't need laws ans rules to know how to act honorably. If the first thing I have to ask myself is "can i get away with it? Is it in the rule book" then you have already crossed the line.

what does honor have to do with it?? they played an ultra-defensive game. how it is dishonorable to play a prevent defense? no fun, sure, but how did "honor" come into the discussion?

as far as "getting away with it" goes, honestly, the flyers sitting in the their zone doing nothing is bending rules more than refusing to forecheck is. i mean, really? the other team isn't doing what you want them to, so you're gonna just sit there until they do? honorable?

[terp]

welcome home, terp.

Nice to hear from you. Fine new digs we have here courtesy of Digity.

[idahophilly]

Aziz, you are seriously defending this? It's bad for the game. That's what makes it dis-honorable. You have your thoughts and I have mine. I would NEVER tell my team to play like that. And the Flyers did this in this PATICULAR game because the GM meetings are next week. Crap like that last night impacts EVERY team in viewership and growing the team. If you enjoy then move to Tampa...

[aziz]

Aziz, you are seriously defending this?

defending it, as in do i like it? no, absolutely not. defending it, as in there is no reason for anyone to "do something about it", absoultely.

look, it's a stupid thing to do. really crappy teams might impliment it to some benefit, but overall, the team that has no forecheck is only hurting itself. it isn't hurting the game in any larger sense, for exactly that reason: it doesn't work. if it were some magic thing that would allow that team to dominate, ok, there's a problem...but it isn't. the flyers made a big enough deal out of it that they allowed it to take control of the game. the game before, tampa allowed 41 shots again florida. the flyers put the thing into their own heads, and it paralyzed them.

with a trap set *that* far back, with only one guy over center red, the two dmen should be able to skate the puck themselves to the red line. from there they have options. lot's of options. movement by the wingers forces the defenders to shift as guys enter and leave coverage zones, the deep dman is SO deep he can't be involved in the transition game at all, it's a recipie for confusion and exploitation. the opposing squad just needs to decide to use that and tear the static defense to shreds.

rather than just work through it, the flyers made a show of it...and from that point forward couldn't find a way to put their heads down and manuever around the soft half ice pressure they had in front of them.

tampa has been doing this for a long time now, and it has caused no one any angst until pronger decided to make sure the world could see what was going on. which was funny, but didn't accomplish anything. god help us if the league impliments a shot clock or mandated forecheck because of this nonsense.

[Bertmega]

defending it, as in do i like it? no, absolutely not. defending it, as in there is no reason for anyone to "do something about it", absoultely

Agreed. As I said earlier you can't have the refs dictating the tempo of the game. I hate the 1-3-1 or any variation of it in a regular season game, but we can't have the refs start penalizing the teams for playing that style of hockey. To use football logic, it would be like the refs penalizing teams for using a prevent defense.

Like Pods quoted from Shero; yes they can beat it with a mean game dump/kill and chase, or that is how I see it.

However, I fear the Idaho is right that we will be sitting in the box a lot for it. These calls along the boards is kind of getting out of hand, but that is another topic of discussion.

In the end you are correct in my eyes, the league should do nothing about this. Teams must figure a way to beat it.