Rumor Flyers Pursuing Grossman?

[Leach27]

Yes it's Eklund, but it makes sense. Solid D man, He can play 16-18 min, 6'4, 201lbs. cap hit 1.62 million, and he's a UFA at end of the season.

http://www.hockeybuz...rossman/1/40422

[flyerrod]

depending on what the cost for him is, he would not be a bad rental even if they did not re-sign him. He sounds like a 3/4 defenseman which means a substantial pay raise to keep him. What is Dallas going to be looking for in return? that is the big question....

[Irishjim]

sounds like we wouldn't have to give up much for him

[Leach27]

Rod - I don't think it would take much, because would if Dallas can't re-sign him, they take something for him or lose him for nothing.

[AbelMorpheus]

I don't know. I like what Bourdon and Marshall are bringing right now. The Flyers are 7 and 3 in their last 10 and these kids have been there for most of it. I think it's obvious to say that playing well in a winning environment creates a better player than one in a losing environment. They are being well nurtured. The team has other available options. I don't understand the lack of love for Walker and once Pronger, Lilja, Gustafsson and Bartulis are heathly they are gonna be over loaded on d. Let the kids keep on getting this (most) valuable experience. It certainly isn't hurting them right now. Lets face it, Timonen rocks!, Coburn is pretty damn good and Carle and Meszaros are holding up there end of the bargain. I'm pretty happy with things the way they are.

[Leach27]

A few concerns;

1) Timonen playing heavy minutes and getting worn down.

2) Going with rookies in the playoffs.

Also are you serious about walker?? How many times did he get called up? He has no-one to blame but himself. Turnovers, penalties, does that bring back memories?

[AbelMorpheus]

I agree That Timo needs to chill with the TOI.

Rookies can become veterans in the course of a season. We have four solid guys to teach them. Come Playoff time I certainly don't want to see Marshall and Bourdon together if they haven't progressed, hell i don't want to see them on the team if they haven't progressed. Like I said if the team continues it's winning ways, it's instrumental in the development of youth. Yes, throw in the occasional loss to remind you of how much it sucks and the need for improvement,but winning creates winners.

Walker...I honestly don't know that much about him. Maybe I've been giving him to much credit Leach. But maybe his lack of playing time is affecting his play. I 'd like to think that the team did some research on him before aquiring him that would validate the trade.

[flyerrod]

I don't know. I like what Bourdon and Marshall are bringing right now. The Flyers are 7 and 3 in their last 10 and these kids have been there for most of it. I think it's obvious to say that playing well in a winning environment creates a better player than one in a losing environment. They are being well nurtured. The team has other available options. I don't understand the lack of love for Walker and once Pronger, Lilja, Gustafsson and Bartulis are heathly they are gonna be over loaded on d. Let the kids keep on getting this (most) valuable experience. It certainly isn't hurting them right now. Lets face it, Timonen rocks!, Coburn is pretty damn good and Carle and Meszaros are holding up there end of the bargain. I'm pretty happy with things the way they are.

1) Lack of Love for Walker is that he is way overpaid for a # 7 defenseman which is giving more credit than he deserves. On the depth chart of Flyers Defense, he is below everyone but Lilja at this point and that makes him 9th.......

2)Lilja is Horrible! He is constantly out of position or gets caught standing flat footed. He is the reincarnation of Tollefson.

3)Marshal has been playing better of late and Bourdon has looked like he has belonged since his second game up. Both of those guys are looking like keepers. Pronger needs to start playing way less minutes,Timmo too, if they want to still be playing until the ends of their respective contracts.

[AbelMorpheus]

So Flyerrod, are you saying the Flyers should go out and aquire another dman?

[flyerrod]

I said he might not be a bad rental due to the fact that Pronger is out indefinately, Carle is UFA next season, Bourdon and Marshal are both RFA. I really could care less about Lilja who will be gone and Walker needs to be gone. At least it will be safe to waive him back to the phantoms...no one in their right mind wants to pay him 1.7 mil a yr next year. Trading for Grossman could help the Flyers when it comes time to sign players like Bourdon and Marshall too.

[AbelMorpheus]

Okay, I hear you. But I said we have 4 better than average d-men and 2 rookies (who don't suck) that can learn from those 4. Carle will be signed next year. Let's spend money on keeping the team together.

[The Quigster]

How about some of the Phantoms? Both of the rookies have really produced,maybe a good idea to look at some of the other Phantom "D" men(not Bartulis). Why spend money and time on another teams under producing players? The Flyers already have Walker and Lilja. The rookies (not just the"d" men) have added something missing here for a long time,hard work,enthusiasm,competition,etc. Looks like a team Clarkie built.

[brelic]

Okay, I hear you. But I said we have 4 better than average d-men and 2 rookies (who don't suck) that can learn from those 4. Carle will be signed next year. Let's spend money on keeping the team together.

Part of the reasoning is probably that you don't go into the playoffs with 7 regular rookies on your roster, including 2 defensemen. It's one thing for Marshall and Bourdon to look OK in the regular season, but quite another in the playoffs. Bourdon made an incredibly stupid pass right across the ice in our zone that was nearly intercepted. He had many better options, but chose one that inexperienced players would. When the pressure rises in the playoffs, these inexperienced guys will get exposed more.

Remember Parent and Krajicek? They looked "ok" in the regular season... good enough for bottom pairing, but they were probably just as responsible for us not winning the Cup as Leighton. They were a liability on the ice, and the other team gained momentum by hedging us in the zone for long periods. And though our two rooks have done well, check the number on the jerseys next time we're hemmed in. Chances are you'll see one of Bourdon or Marshall. I'm not being negative, just realistic.

As far as TOI for Kimmo, his current average (22:03) is his lowest average TOI since the 2006-2007 season in Nashville (21:51). He'll be fine. It's Carle (22:26) who seems to be playing a lot more lately, and Coburn's right around the same as Timo (21:55).

If we break down their TOI by month...

Timo

Oct - 21:53

Nov - 21:45

Dec - 23:05

Carle

Oct - 22:00

Nov - 21:40

Dec - 25:15

Coburn

Oct - 21:21

Nov - 21:43

Dec - 23:33

Both Coburn and Carle had a bigger jump in TOI. To me, that seems like Lavi knows exactly what he's doing in managing his defensemen, and Timo will be fine. That's probably why he's quietly having his best season as a Flyer. He's got 20 assists already!

[hf101]

@brelic

"Part of the reasoning is probably that you don't go into the playoffs with 7 regular rookies on your roster, including 2 defensemen. It's one thing for Marshall and Bourdon to look OK in the regular season, but quite another in the playoffs. "

I don't see Holmgren making a trade for a d-man unless say one of Timonen, Carle, Coburn, Meszaros go down with a serious season ending injury. However if Walker was a part of a trade, then sure there is that possibility. Holmgren is just doing his job here looking at the possibilities of who could be available during the course of the season.

I think what is being forgotten in our defensive depth is that Gustavsson is only 3 weeks away from retruning, and he his better than Marshall. Then at some point Lilja returns also. I think the team can go into the playoffs with Pronger, and Lilja, Gustavsson and Bourdon as our 6,7,8 d-men.

[flyerrod]

Okay, I hear you. But I said we have 4 better than average d-men and 2 rookies (who don't suck) that can learn from those 4. Carle will be signed next year. Let's spend money on keeping the team together.

I am good with that for the most part but you still need to plan like you are going to lose at least one of the three (Carle, Bourdon, Marshall). Grossman would be a solid d-man with a little more experience than Both Marshall and Bourdon for the post season too. I do not count Walker, who will be a phantom again if he is not soon moved or Lilja who at 735k might even be picked up on the way down through waivers(after he is healthy again) for a team needing a 7th dman.

[doom88]

Unless we intend to resign or keep any dman we bring in, I think there is no need to acquire anyone. Assuming we let Carle walk and buyout Pronger, we still have:

Timonen Coburn

Meszaros Bourdon

Walker Gus (maybe Marshal over Walker)

For next season.

We have guys to develop now, why not see what we've got? We are in first place in the regular season, I think it is okay to experiment and develop a little. The long term benefits seem nice: we either can some players or resign them. Either way, we will be able to make a more informed decision.

[brelic]

No offense, but that defensive lineup stinks. Bourdon probably won't even be a top 4 defenseman at his peak, let alone in his 2nd season. That would mean increasing his minutes by about 7-8 minutes per game over what he has now. I'm not writing him off, I just wouldn't start the season that way, and I'm sure Homer will do something in the off season to address our defense, including re-signing Carle.

[flyerrod]

Walker Gus (maybe Marshal over Walker)

Walker has to be gone ( traded or waived) for salary reasons alone...1.7mil for a 7th d-man....sorry, no thank you.....

[doom88]

I want to actually see Walker play for more than five games before I write him off. He has been buried due to cap hit, but if Pronger and Carle are gone, that saves almost ten million.

Maybe that doesn't work out, maybe the Flyers acquire a D in the offseason to put on the top 4. I want to see the Flyers make an attempt to develop a D. Rarely do you get a stud dman right away, they do require some commitment.

With no changes in development I agree, that lineup is questionable, but if Bryz plays to his supposed level, it won't matter much.

Most teams are NOT six deep. That is a luxury in the salary cap era.

[doom88]

Walker has to be gone ( traded or waived) for salary reasons alone...1.7mil for a 7th d-man....sorry, no thank you.....

I'd still rather Walker than Shelly. If he actually gets in the ice, he might earn his check. With the list of young guys stepping up, I can't really blame the Flyers giving them a shot over Walker. Supposedly he is finally healthy though.

[brelic]

I want to actually see Walker play for more than five games before I write him off. He has been buried due to cap hit, but if Pronger and Carle are gone, that saves almost ten million.

Maybe that doesn't work out, maybe the Flyers acquire a D in the offseason to put on the top 4. I want to see the Flyers make an attempt to develop a D. Rarely do you get a stud dman right away, they do require some commitment.

With no changes in development I agree, that lineup is questionable, but if Bryz plays to his supposed level, it won't matter much.

Most teams are NOT six deep. That is a luxury in the salary cap era.

I'm sure that another reason why Bourdon and Marshall are playing over Walker is to figure out whether or not Walker is expendable. I think he is. So the Flyers could waive him and not miss a beat. He was brought up in case the rooks couldn't cut it.

So, you've got

Pronger/Carle

Coburn/Timonen

Meszaros/Gus

Bourdon

Marshall

Lilja

Walker

I think, when healthy, we can safely shed Lilja and Walker. Problem is Lilja is on a 35+ contract, so waiving him does us no good. It should be a trade, if possible. There's no way he should be here for his 2 seasons.

Walker is expendable too, and so is Shelley. Laviolette continues to choose rookies over guys like Shelley and Walker. That's $2.8M is salary right there.

[flyerrod]

@brelic

My sentiments exactly with regards to Walker. Lilja might actually be claimed off of waivers going down or up. His salary is reasonable for what he is and if the Flyers are carrying half of his salary as a cost to open up a roster spot, that is reasonable.

The problem with Shelley is no one will pick him up in either direction. His contract still baffles me to this day.........He is always going to hold a roster spot until his contract expires, there is just no way around that.

Edited December 11, 2011 by flyerrod

[Mad Dog]

I don't think it's possible to be worse than Lilja. The guy just can't play. I like Grossman's game. Steady and defensively responsible, while not the best skater. But there would have to be Flyers' players traded, I am sure, to make this happen.

[Dynamo 47]

Yes it's Eklund, but it makes sense. Solid D man, He can play 16-18 min, 6'4, 201lbs. cap hit 1.62 million, and he's a UFA at end of the season.

http://www.hockeybuz...rossman/1/40422

I think he would be a great fit for the team not only for this season but beyond. He is a big guy who plays with a physical edge and is young enough to want to retain for multiple years.