Blog - Internet Our 2012-13 Backup Backstop | Who's It Gonna Be?

[Vanflyer]

there is no such thing as "retire" mid-SPC. if a player has a valid contract with a team, he has a valid contract with a team. if he chooses to not play, he is suspended by the team, but the contract remains.

russian from columbus....not sure who you mean. ah, wait, filatov, right? yeah.....reading about that now...and i got nothing. says he was loaned from columbus to a KHL team, and then the sentors did the same thing with him 3 years later. loaned him in the same way a team would loan a player to an AHL team. i didn't realize that was allowed. so...that definitely changes things, good catch. i'm not sure of the specifics, but it does look like it is at least possible.

I guess what I meant by null and void is that the money no longer hits the books (under 35). I get that the contract remains in effect if for nothing else other than retaining a players rights.

[Vanflyer]

Greetings:

I like your reasoning. My gut says they go with a bargain type like Johnson per yesterday's article. Bobo gets traded as part of a package--I could JVR bundled with him.

Best,

Howie

Hey Howie-

I am one to stand pat, for now, on both players. I could see a post christmas type of move. The question on the package is that what team has what we want of value that would take both Bob and JVR (6+m in salary)?

[Vanflyer]

Greetings:

I like your reasoning. My gut says they go with a bargain type like Johnson per yesterday's article. Bobo gets traded as part of a package--I could JVR bundled with him.

Best,

Howie

Hey Howie-

I am one to stand pat, for now, on both players. I could see a post christmas type of move. The question on the package is that what team has what we want of value that would take both Bob and JVR (6+m in salary)?

[Vanflyer]

now, if he gets bought out (and i've recently denounced my atheism in order to pray for this to happen), i change my tune. THEN it makes total sense to hold onto bob and see if we can discover what his deal is. give him 60 starts and a vet tutor to take the other 22 and see how it goes. so long as bryzgalov is a flyer, though, i don't see the upside.

I just looked this up and was a bit shocked. While the capital hit hurts the Flyers (guess Snider will have to get rid of his landing gear cam on his Lear Jet), the numbers are not bad AT all. If the Flyers were to buy him out on 6/15/2012, his buyout over the next 16 years would be 1.7 million.

I have no idea how they do the proration and math, but according to Cap Geek buyout calculator, his buyout cap hit would be:

2012-2013: $875K

2013-2014: $-625K (yes, a CREDIT!)

2014-2015: $1.375m

2015-2016: $1.375m

2016-2017: $1.875m

2017-2018: $1.875m

2018-2019: $5.125m (looks like this year and following are baloon type payoffs)

2019-2020: $6.125m

2020-2028: $1.708 (last 8 years)

Buying out next year just reduces the prorated buyout of 7m over the 16 years (430k per year).

While nobody wants to throw 41m out the window, at the same time some losses in business can be minimized as asset depreciation losses (ie. reduction in taxes, etc.).

[aziz]

Bob has plenty of trade value. He's a young goalie with a few NHL games under his belt, not unlike Schneider, Bernier, Harding

problem is, unlike those three, he has had one impressive NHL year, and one mediocre one. plus, unlike the others, he doesn't have any kind of record in the minors to validate the small sample of NHL success. a couple strong seasons in the AHL along with a couple strong seasons in the NHL makes those guys fair bets for future NHL success. bob's one good/one bad year in the NHL with nothing but european play behind it leaves him with, like 10 other unproven goalies that are really 50-50 shots at best. i don't think anyone is going to pay more than a 3rd or 4th rounder for him.

he'd make nice filler in a trade, though, coupled with JVR.

[aziz]

They structured his two-way contract so that if they did send him down (which is unlikely, because he would have to clear waivers), his AHL salary is only 75K, which no matter how you slice it would be a mammoth slap in the face.

that's totally normal, though. the only weird thing about it is he has made his NHL salary for 2 seasons of his entry level deal. most goalies make the pennies version of it for most of that first SPC. bernier, since he was just mentioned in my previous post, made $62.5k for the first two years of his, then made his NHL salary of $765k for the last.

For me personally, Vokoun was the play last summer. Let him have the starters role / platoon. Snider knee jerked, etc. If they were that disheartened by believing that Bobs was not ready as a starter, then they STILL should have signed a Vokoun type to let Bobs get plenty of reps in at the AHL. Of course that would not have played out either because of the idiotic way his two-way contract was structured. Somebody was asleep at the wheel all the way around on the goalie contract spot, and I am not just referring to last year.

agreed agreed agreed on all of that, except for the 2-way deal thing, because again, that really is just how they work. guy's make 5-15% of their NHL salary while in the AHL, that's the purpose of a 2-way deal.

[aziz]

I guess what I meant by null and void is that the money no longer hits the books (under 35). I get that the contract remains in effect if for nothing else other than retaining a players rights.

that's true, but given that the player is suspended, he also doesn't get paid. and is ineligible for the NHLPA pension or any of the other "perks" of retirement from the NHL. they are in breach of contract, after all.

Edited June 8, 2012 by noodl

[aziz]

While nobody wants to throw 41m out the window, at the same time some losses in business can be minimized as asset depreciation losses (ie. reduction in taxes, etc.).

yeah, the cap hit isn't all that bad, aside from those two years down the road a ways. the interesting thing is that it wouldn't be $41mil out the window. it'd be $27mil (i think that's the number those years add up to). buyouts only pay 2/3rds of the remaining value on the contract, so it would actually be cheaper, all said, for snider to but him out. save $14mil that way.

though, of course, you are going to be paying his replacement something, so goaltending expenses over the 8 years left migth wash, but........

[radoran]

So, basically, all we need to do is wait for Ed Snider to publicly and humiliatingly admit that he was wrong and have the Flyers walk away from Bryzgalov.

Good luck with that.

[aziz]

So, basically, all we need to do is wait for Ed Snider to publicly and humiliatingly admit that he was wrong and have the Flyers walk away from Bryzgalov.

Good luck with that.

well. two points of view on that. if a person is in your camp where bryzgalov is actually a good deal who just struggled this one season, then sure, a buyout right now would be a big bit of unneeded egg on snider's face. if someone is in my camp, though, then there will be egg on his face on a regular basis, refreshed over and over again as the mistake of bryzgalov's signing is layed bare for the world to see time and again as he comes up oh-so very small each and every spring. it becomes a matter of pulling the bandaid off real slowly, over an 8 year period, or ripping it off all at once and trying to bury the memory by doing a better job going forward. one year of big embarrasment, or 8 years of medium.

he has to tell the press he agrees with you for the moment, that bryzgalov was just unusually bad this go around and will be better next season. hard to say what he actually thinks, though. i tend to agree that he is probably trying to be optimistic and won't do anything, but that doesn't mean that is the less embarrasing road to take overall. 6 years later, when giroux and JVR and couturier and schenn and all the rest of the currently young talent are UFAs and the flyers have failed to get anywhere at all because of bizarrely bad goaltending, snider will wish he'd just bailed and gotten it over with early. i.e., right now.

[radoran]

well. two points of view on that. if a person is in your camp where bryzgalov is actually a good deal who just struggled this one season, then sure, a buyout right now would be a big bit of unneeded egg on snider's face. i

To coin a phrase: "show me where I said that."

Seriously. Once. Show me where I said it was "a good deal" or "actually a good deal" or anything having to do with it being "a good deal" even remotely, a little bit, anywhere.

I have said he is capable of playing better than he did this season - not that he *will* just that he *can*. You are saying he is absolutely incapable of playing at an NHL level.

I'll take my position and you can certainly have yours.

If someone is in my camp, though, then there will be egg on his face on a regular basis, refreshed over and over again as the mistake of bryzgalov's signing is layed bare for the world to see time and again as he comes up oh-so very small each and every spring. it becomes a matter of pulling the bandaid off real slowly, over an 8 year period, or ripping it off all at once and trying to bury the memory by doing a better job going forward. one year of big embarrasment, or 8 years of medium.

"Your camp" - what is this? Third grade playground? Please.

I have entertained the notion of a buyout on many, many occasions - with the most likely scenario I have repeatedly, time and again, stated is a buyot after 2014 if things don't turn around at all.

I have said, will say and will put an irrespnsibly large bet that Bryzgalov is the guy between the pipes in October regardless of whether I think it is the "right" thing to do.

Seriously, stop trying to pretend that you're right and that everyone else has this fantasy of an opinion you try to lay on them.

[aziz]

@radoran

"camp" meaning one of two opposing points of view. my point was that if snider's objective is to save face, better now than later. i assumed your comment indicated the opposite.

and you're right, i put words in your mouth that did not belong there, you never said this was a good deal. sorry about that. you have hope where i don't, and that makes it feel like we are further apart than maybe we are. as you say, you think "might", not "will". so, yeah. my bad.

[Mad Dog]

My hunch is that the Flyers collectively realize this was a trial-and-error type of season. Too much happened last summer and the team has transformed. It was a learning experience, a year of adjustments if you will........ which includes Bryzgalov as well. The Flyers are looking at it this way, which allows them to approach Bryzgalov's situation with tolerance.

But I have to believe that if the team in general plays real well this year, but Bryzgalov falls flat on his face, again, Snider will have enough. Just my impression...

Edited June 9, 2012 by Mad Dog

[doom88]

@MadDog

You would think, but we shall see. I know Snider wants another Cup before death.

[Mad Dog]

I know Snider wants another Cup before death.

Don't we all.....

[doom88]

Don't we all.....

Some of us never had the pleasure.

[radoran]

My hunch is that the Flyers collectively realize this was a trial-and-error type of season. Too much happened last summer and the team has transformed. It was a learning experience, a year of adjustments if you will........ which includes Bryzgalov as well. The Flyers are looking at it this way, which allows them to approach Bryzgalov's situation with tolerance.

But I have to believe that if the team in general plays real well this year, but Bryzgalov falls flat on his face, again, Snider will have enough. Just my impression...

It could very well be that they look into the "buyout" option if Bryzgalov plays all next season like he did in November/December this year.

I still believe he has it in him to be the worst multiple Cup winning goalie in NHL history. With the right team in front of him :-)

[sarsippius]

I still believe he has it in him to be the worst multiple Cup winning goalie in NHL history. With the right team in front of him :-)

Sure, if that team's top 4 defensemen are Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha and Harry freakin' Houdini

[Mad Dog]

I still believe he has it in him to be the worst multiple Cup winning goalie in NHL history. With the right team in front of him :-)

I think so too. Or, put it this way, I *want* to hope he can. But in that scenario, the team in front of him really has ot be basically infallable. Can the Flyers put that team together? I do have confidence in Flyers management, yes.