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Report : Flyers to sign Jagr


Guest jammer2
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I'm basically ok with this move, but I do think the money can be spent better elsewhere. Jagr chipped in 54 pts and 19 goals last season....a pretty good bang for your buck at 3.3 mill a year, right around fair market value for his production IMHO. Thing is, he had ok stats in the playoffs, 8 pts in 11 games is not chopped liver, but he looked tired and kinda made the team easier to play against. *If* the Flyers get him for 2.0 to 2.5 I'm ok with it, the same numbers as last year....just a bit to much for my liking. We could use that cash to sign a legit back up or shore up the defense.

I do believe he's a bit of a luxury. We all know offense is not the problem here. We could easily fill the void by giving more playing time to Voracek or JVR. These guy still have upside and should improve enough to take the sting of missing Jagr's points away. Even Wellwood and Harry Z. could produce more if given the incresed ice time. I'd be happy if Simmonds equaled last years stats, and Danny B in theory should produce more than last. All signs the Flyers *should* be in a favourable bargaining position here. The price has to be right homer....

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=397842

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I'm basically ok with this move, but I do think the money can be spent better elsewhere. Jagr chipped in 54 pts and 19 goals last season....a pretty good bang for your buck at 3.3 mill a year, right around fair market value for his production IMHO. Thing is, he had ok stats in the playoffs, 8 pts in 11 games is not chopped liver, but he looked tired and kinda made the team easier to play against. *If* the Flyers get him for 2.0 to 2.5 I'm ok with it, the same numbers as last year....just a bit to much for my liking. We could use that cash to sign a legit back up or shore up the defense. I do believe he's a bit of a luxury. We all know offense is not the problem here. We could easily fill the void by giving more playing time to Voracek or JVR. These guy still have upside and should improve enough to take the sting of missing Jagr's points away. Even Wellwood and Harry Z. could produce more if given the incresed ice time. I'd be happy if Simmonds equaled last years stats, and Danny B in theory should produce more than last. All signs the Flyers *should* be in a favourable bargaining position here. The price has to be right homer.... http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=397842

If you are re-signing Jagr, It could very well mean that JVR is going to be moved for a d-man. Nashville could certainly use someone to replace Radulov and the Flyers need to replenish the defense with the hole that is going to be left by Pronger.

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Would Jagr accept 2nd line minutes and 2nd unit power play . I don't know if I want to rely on him on the first line, and would rather have G find "his" winger to grow lethal with. 2.5 Mil a year would be good value IMO

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Honestly, I would love if Jagr came back to play for us. I think we have a lot of young talent who could learn a lot from watching him play although we are still stacked when it comes to offense I think it is a move that could truly pay off for future seasons. Hopefully the price tag would come in at 2.5 mil but I'm actually kind of honored this is where he's finishing out his career.

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*If* the Flyers get him for 2.0 to 2.5 I'm ok with it, the same numbers as last year....just a bit to much for my liking

I'm not sure why Jagr would consider signing for less than he made last year - with the Flyers or any team. He proved his value this year and a lot of it had to do with leadership and dedication, work-ethic, etc., stuff that doesn't show up on the score sheet. Plus his production, like you said, was basically right where you'd want it to be for a $3.3 mil player. I really doubt he favors the Flyers with any kind of "hometown discount."

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I don't know if I want to rely on him on the first line, and would rather have G find "his" winger to grow lethal with.

I agree will this completely. A #1 or #2 dman is first priority. Scoring isn't an issue for the Flyers. However, a first line winger that can create is priority #2 for Homer. Giroux needs someone that can set him up and create space for him.

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I'm basically ok with this move, but I do think the money can be spent better elsewhere. Jagr chipped in 54 pts and 19 goals last season....a pretty good bang for your buck at 3.3 mill a year, right around fair market value for his production IMHO. Thing is, he had ok stats in the playoffs, 8 pts in 11 games is not chopped liver, but he looked tired and kinda made the team easier to play against. *If* the Flyers get him for 2.0 to 2.5 I'm ok with it, the same numbers as last year....just a bit to much for my liking. We could use that cash to sign a legit back up or shore up the defense.

I do believe he's a bit of a luxury. We all know offense is not the problem here. We could easily fill the void by giving more playing time to Voracek or JVR. These guy still have upside and should improve enough to take the sting of missing Jagr's points away. Even Wellwood and Harry Z. could produce more if given the incresed ice time. I'd be happy if Simmonds equaled last years stats, and Danny B in theory should produce more than last. All signs the Flyers *should* be in a favourable bargaining position here. The price has to be right homer....

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=397842

By resigning Jagr, maybe Voracek will resign at a reasonable deal because he'll get to play with his boyhood idol again. Jagr is great for the younger players and really doesn't need the money. He said last season was one of the most enjoyable of his career so hopefully he'll give the Flyers a hometown discount.

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I'm not sure why Jagr would consider signing for less than he made last year - with the Flyers or any team. He proved his value this year and a lot of it had to do with leadership and dedication, work-ethic, etc., stuff that doesn't show up on the score sheet. Plus his production, like you said, was basically right where you'd want it to be for a $3.3 mil player. I really doubt he favors the Flyers with any kind of "hometown discount."

I'm not so certain. For one thing, he played like crap in the playoffs. That has to count for something. Secondly, he clearly loves it in Philly. By taking a pay cut, even a small one, it would send the appropriate message to the Matt Carle's and others about loyalty etc. I could see Jagr doing that, he seems like he's arrived at the stage of his career where he wants to put the team ahead of everything else.

I could be wrong, of course, and he'll ask for a raise. Yeah, of course he will.

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I may be in the minority, but I am not sure I like the idea of Jagr coming back to play for the Flyers. Don't get me wrong, I was one of many people who were literally SHOCKED to see a 360 transformation of the guy. All these traits that people are mentioning (dedication, professionalism, selflessness, experience, unmatched work ethic, setting a good example for young guys, mentorship)……… all this was more than anybody could possibly expect or ask for. And his production in the regular season was pretty much in line with his price tag.

But I have two major concerns with this resigning. First is his age and durability. And I know he is in a decent shape for his age and he was actually more durable than, I guess, some of us expected. But unless they monitor and control his ice time closely, he will again be spent by the time the playoffs kick in. And that’s just a function of his age; that’s almost entirely outside his control. And given the fact the he will likely be looked at to still have a prominent role on the roster, that’s a concern. I just don’t see how it cannot be a concern.

My second issue is reading his earlier blogs, he hinted that he would only resign if there are some promises made to him that he would still play a big role (PP time, ice time, etc.). That’s an issue for two reasons. 1) is what I outlined above (this will eventually take toll on him and wear him down as the season progresses) and 2) it will impede the growth of younger guys. Personally, I think Couturier proved he is ready to take on a bigger role. He needs to generate points and he is capable. But assuming Jagr is back on the first line – which, again, is probably the only place he would be OK with – I just don’t see how it helps the kids with their growth.

But the other interesting angle is that by resigning Jagr, perhaps Homer is making sure he is securing a forward position, at a reasonable price, so JVR could be packaged to acquire a d-man? I don’t know if Homer has considered this in his decision to resign Jagr, but you never know…

Edited by Mad Dog
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I may be in the minority, but I am not sure I like the idea of Jagr coming back to play for the Flyers. Don't get me wrong, I was one of many people who were literally SHOCKED to see a 360 transformation of the guy. All these traits that people are mentioning (dedication, professionalism, selflessness, experience, unmatched work ethic, setting a good example for young guys, mentorship)……… all this was more than anybody could possibly expect or ask for. And his production in the regular season was pretty much in line with his price tag.

But I have two major concerns with this resigning. First is his age and durability. And I know he is in a decent shape for his age and he was actually more durable than, I guess, some of us expected. But unless they monitor and control his ice time closely, he will again be spent by the time the playoffs kick in. And that’s just a function of his age; that’s almost entirely outside his control. And given the fact the he will likely be looked at to still have a prominent role on the roster, that’s a concern. I just don’t see how it cannot be a concern.

My second issue is reading his earlier blogs, he hinted that he would only resign if there are some promises made to him that he would still play a big role (PP time, ice time, etc.). That’s an issue for two reasons. 1) is what I outlined above (this will eventually take toll on him and wear him down as the season progresses) and 2) it will impede the growth of younger guys. Personally, I think Couturier proved he is ready to take on a bigger role. He needs to generate points and he is capable. But assuming Jagr is back on the first line – which, again, is probably the only place he would be OK with – I just don’t see how it helps the kids with their growth.

But the other interesting angle is that by resigning Jagr, perhaps Homer is making sure he is securing a forward position, at a reasonable price, so JVR could be packaged to acquire a d-man? I don’t know if Homer has considered this in his decision to resign Jagr, but you never know…

That could make sense in having Jagr come back to secure a forward position in order to use JVR as trade bait. It wouldn't be the same situation as Carter last year where he signed a new deal and then was traded. JVR's new contract kicks in this year and most fans realize that if the Flyers want to get a top 2 defenseman like Weber then JVR will definitely have to be part of a package going back. Nothing will surprise me when it comes to Holmgren especially after he traded Richards, everyone knew that Carter would probably go to open up cap space for a goalie but I don't think any Flyer fans expected Richards to also be traded. If JVR is part of a package to get a defenseman like Weber then I'm all for it especially with the strong possibility that Pronger is finished and Timonen is in the last year of his contract. To no fault of his own, JVR wasn't really missed when he was out with an injury. He still can turn into a scoring power forward that we'll regret trading but if it lands the Flyers a top 2 defenseman then so be it.

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I'd like to have him back on the team, though I agree with others that the Flyers need to manage his ice time to be sure he can contribute more & have a higher energy level come playoff time. If they can work out a system where he plays ~60-65 games in the regular season (like a starting goalie, for instance) I'd be pretty happy to have all the other things he brings to the table, especially his influence on the young players. We have plenty of depth at forward to bring someone up to take his spot for 20 games.

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He's lethal on the power play and a great locker room guy for the younger players.

I, for one, was very surprised at how well he played in Philly last season (not including playoffs, of course). I'm just bummed that it took him this long to finally become an adult and a decent leader. Where was that during his 10 years in Pittsburgh??! :-P

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Where was that during his 10 years in Pittsburgh??! :-P

Crazy eh? Honestly last summer when somebody posted the article about the Flyers signing him I thought it was from the Onion. I never liked his game or what I perceived his work ethic to be, and he has been the exact opposite.

But hey, here in Philly we know all about defectors going elsewhere and doing things they never did here.....like getting a game winner in the Final for example :)

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@Mad Dog All valid points MD, the playoff performance has to be taken into account. Fact is, he makes the Flyers easier to play against when it matters most. Not a knock on Jagr or calling him lazy or anything like that, but the guy just did not have any jump left in his legs in April/May. So, commiting money for that kind of play is a little silly. He would have to be cheap to make it workable.

The other thing I noticed was his play in the offensive zone. He plays this slow, methodical puck possession game....constantly twisting and turning, waiting for an opening to feed a teammate. This type of play is much easier to defend in the playoffs, when the room you have to maneuver is taken away due to the desperation of the opponents. Dont' get me wrong, he is one of the very best at shielding the puck with his body and knowing just when to dish it off....but like I said, much easier to defend come playoff time.

If the money has to be spent at forward, I'd rather have a David Jones type, a guy who is physical, makes the team much, much harder to play against and chips in the some decent points. I know all players can't be physical gritty types, but I guess I just want a better bang for my buck...literally.

I'm also concerned about taking away time from the kids. A Harry Z or Welly could either get bumped from the line-up totally or play a reduced role....and I'd like to see what these kids have to offer with increased ice time.....guys that will be part of our future, not just a stop gap measure.

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I have to admit Jagr surprised me with how he performed for you guys this past season. More his personality than his on ice performance. But he did go there because nobody else would pay him so much. I'm not sure that side of him is changed enough to stay at a "discount". I'll be surprised, but I have to say it would be a nice surprise to see him finally place value in loyalty.

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Maybe this is common knowledge, but it's the first I've heard of it. Earlier this week Pinacchio reported that Jagr "suffered an unannounced left quad pull against Pittsburgh that was so bad it was hemorrhaging prior to the series against the New Jersey Devils, even though he played every game."

Explains the sub-par showing in the post-season. Gotta give him some credit for some grit, if nothing else. Not quite Lappy-esque, maybe, but not bad... ;)

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This is the first I heard of any Jagr injury during the playoffs. That expalins the "lack of jump". Explains a lot of things. I'd have to look at him in a more positive light....maybe he *can* help out considerably in next years playoffs. But....that does bring me to anohter point...the odds of him missing 20+ games due to injury are pretty damn good from where I sit..so a bit of a risk there also, you'd have to hope he does not get hurt at the wrong time.

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I do believe he's a bit of a luxury. We all know offense is not the problem here. We could easily fill the void by giving more playing time to Voracek or JVR.

Hi Jammer-

Since JVR is not a RW, I think you have to remove him from the equation (we can have another dialogue about LW minutes escalation on another thread! :-P).

I have a few points:

1) Jagr played on average 55 games per season (including world championships), prior to returning to the top league in the world. He played 85 (including playoffs) this year. He openly admitted that his injuries hampered him from doing his normal training- which kept him in somewhat shape to compete with men 2/3 to 1/2 his age. We can all admit he gassed / hampered the last 1/4 of the year and playoffs.

2) Jagr, Voracek and Read all split the RW ice time minutes pretty evenly (some PK / some PP / some both). So the "give ice time mentality" works only a little bit. If I can roll three lines for 18 minutes and have the ALL be effective, I am a happy coach. .

3) I am just really hooked to what a great guy he has turned out to be. Everyone boasts about Talbot, but we can not discount Jagr's presence in the least. In fact, Hartnell credited his turnaround this year to watching Jagr and rooming with him a bit. Jagr helped Hartnell tremendously in the fitness department. I always knew that Jagr was a fitness freak, but not to the extent that he is. A guy that has nothing else left to prove, but wants one more cup and will have an positive impact on my team- in the gym, on the ice, in the room is a guy I want on my team.

The cons:

He needs to play with Giroux to be totally effective. Maybe you could put Briere with him, but I am not so sure that would work, briere does not have the vision of giroux. That said, if you want Jake to move up, while I would have no problem pairing Couturier with Jagr.

In the end, he is not a luxury. We need a #1 / #2 RW. If you think Read and Voracek are those guys fine. For the cost of him, I don't mind giving him one more year. @sarsippius, you don't get future first vote hof'ers and curretn .6 ppg players on the cheap charlie route. A nice home town discount would be 2.5-2.8. Plenty other teams will gladly pay 3.3m for him after seeing the evolved, unselfish jagr.

My ONLY caveat is that if Shane Doan wants to come to Philly for a year or two at 3.5m or so, its a done deal and I wish Jagr well.

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I have to admit Jagr surprised me with how he performed for you guys this past season. More his personality than his on ice performance. But he did go there because nobody else would pay him so much. I'm not sure that side of him is changed enough to stay at a "discount". I'll be surprised, but I have to say it would be a nice surprise to see him finally place value in loyalty.

Jagr wanted money AND an important role on the team - not 3rd line duty.

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@Vanflyer I still think he would be a bit of a luxury. Voracek or Read would flourish on the top pp and they will be there for the long haul. Just my gut talking but I think Jagr will continue to have groin problems. Read or Voracek would outscore Jagr if given top pp time. Plus, and most importantly, we need to upgrade the defense and back up goalie positions first and foremost....JVR, Read, Schenn, Couts Voracek, Danny B, Welly....I see all these guys getting more goals than last year...so yeah, IMHO....a luxury.

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If the price tag comes in at around $2 million, I'm happy to have him back

@radoran

Really? That is all a .6 ppg player is worth these days? How much would you pay for Shane Doan to come play here for a year or two (he is a UFA)?

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@Vanflyer

I say that with respect to cap issues and the needs of the team, also considering Jagr's age. I was pleased as we all were with his team play and his positive influence on the young guys. But I have to agree to some extent with the poster who said Jagr is a bit of a luxury for this team.

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