jammer2 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 @Vanflyer Think Jagr might look at Greg Campbell's new contract....he of 20 goals and 39 pts got a 4 year deal at 3 mill per. Applying standard to Jagr and you have to be thinking market value is around 3.2-3.5 or maybe a tad more. Not saying Jagr will ask for that, but other teams might offer that. I think Homer would be smart enough to not get in a bidding war. Rumor has it he already verbally agreed to a deal with Homer....so maybe done of this matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I'm basically ok with this move, but I do think the money can be spent better elsewhere. Jagr chipped in 54 pts and 19 goals last season....a pretty good bang for your buck at 3.3 mill a year, right around fair market value for his production IMHO. Thing is, he had ok stats in the playoffs, 8 pts in 11 games is not chopped liver, but he looked tired and kinda made the team easier to play against. *If* the Flyers get him for 2.0 to 2.5 I'm ok with it, the same numbers as last year....just a bit to much for my liking. We could use that cash to sign a legit back up or shore up the defense.I do believe he's a bit of a luxury. We all know offense is not the problem here. We could easily fill the void by giving more playing time to Voracek or JVR. These guy still have upside and should improve enough to take the sting of missing Jagr's points away. Even Wellwood and Harry Z. could produce more if given the incresed ice time. I'd be happy if Simmonds equaled last years stats, and Danny B in theory should produce more than last. All signs the Flyers *should* be in a favourable bargaining position here. The price has to be right homer....http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=397842why bother signing Jagr, he proved in the playoffs he's washed up..Vorecheck is an adequate replacement.. we need to load up on dmen.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 @orange_crushYou were one of the few who agreed with me that he needed to sit, as early as Game 2 vs the Debs. We "like thinkers" (oh dear) have to stick together, sniff, sniff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 @orange_crushYou were one of the few who agreed with me that he needed to sit, as early as Game 2 vs the Debs. We "like thinkers" (oh dear) have to stick together, sniff, sniff.great hockey minds think alike..the Jagr experiment is over let;s move on..don't you think Vorecheck is an adequate replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 @orange_crushYeah I do. I guess I could see an argument for Jagr spending another year with Jake to further mentor him (same home town etc), that only good could come from that, but at $3M or more, I don't see the value. If Jagr came cheap, I could live with it I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 @Vanflyer Think Jagr might look at Greg Campbell's new contract....he of 20 goals and 39 pts got a 4 year deal at 3 mill per. Applying standard to Jagr and you have to be thinking market value is around 3.2-3.5 or maybe a tad more. Not saying Jagr will ask for that, but other teams might offer that. I think Homer would be smart enough to not get in a bidding war. Rumor has it he already verbally agreed to a deal with Homer....so maybe done of this matters.Agree on the bidding war part. Which Greg Campbell are we talking about that got a 3m deal? I know the guy in Boston got 1.6m, but don't know of another one. At any rate, your or Noziz point on age similar to Recchi will play into it. Here is what I think will happen. 2.5m for two years. I know allot of folks will cry about it, but that is what it will be and then Jagr will retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Here is what I think will happen. 2.5m for two years. I know allot of folks will cry about it, but that is what it will be and then Jagr will retire.highly doubtful he gets more than a year. That's what he's [supposedly] asking for - so apparently nobody has an interest in extending it past that.As an aside, I'll say again how crazy it is to expect (or hope) Jagr signs a deal for less than what he made this year. He's UFA, he can accept any deal he wants. I know he listed just 3 teams he seriously considered signing with when he came back, but those other 2 teams are still attractive (Wings, Pens). Detroit has an ocean full of money they can throw at him (though I'm not sure why they'd want to), and Blysma could easily make the case [to his bosses] that Jagr is exactly what they need next year...Supposedly it's an almost-done deal and Jagr will be back with the Flyers next year... can't say I'm happy about it but maybe...maybe if he eases back on the all-night training parties he'll have something left in the tank come April 2013... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 highly doubtful he gets more than a year. That's what he's [supposedly] asking for - so apparently nobody has an interest in extending it past that.As an aside, I'll say again how crazy it is to expect (or hope) Jagr signs a deal for less than what he made this year. He's UFA, he can accept any deal he wants. I know he listed just 3 teams he seriously considered signing with when he came back, but those other 2 teams are still attractive (Wings, Pens). Detroit has an ocean full of money they can throw at him (though I'm not sure why they'd want to), and Blysma could easily make the case [to his bosses] that Jagr is exactly what they need next year...Supposedly it's an almost-done deal and Jagr will be back with the Flyers next year... can't say I'm happy about it but maybe...maybe if he eases back on the all-night training parties he'll have something left in the tank come April 2013...I think the market may be smaller than you think.Jagr means less to Detroit now, especially after signing with the Flyers. I can't see them committing $3.5-$4M in Jagr, but that's an opinion.Likewise the Pens, after being so publicly snubbed, are IMO unlikely to pony up bucks to see Jagr play out the string. I also have a really hard time imagining Byslma pushing a case that Jagr (who was considered as a swan song when they lowballed the offer to him last year) is "exactly what they need" next season.I've said many times that Jagr can likely get more money elsewhere, but - as with a Mark Recchi - an "extra million" can mean less to a 40-year-old multimillionaire when "the right situation" is available. He's publicly compared Giroux to Lemieux so I think he likes this situation.It may very well be that the "market" for him is in the $3M range and $3.3M wouldn't be the end of the world. But I don't think the $800K drop to $2.5M is totally ridiculous or "crazy." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I suppose you're right - I hadn't thought the Pens thing through - the "snubbing" as you called it. Still, I can easily see how the Pens would like Jagr...the "elder statesman" with a maniacal commitment to fitness and self-discipline, etc. Jagr could slot in nicely on their PP. They're not exactly loaded on the wing either. Obviously we don't know how serious the "snubbing" was, whether the Pens would let it override a business decision that *should* make the team better next year.Not sure why "Jagr means less to Detroit now, especially after signing with the Flyers" but maybe you will elaborate. If anything I think the Wings have one less reason to hesitate going after him: he proved he's still a valuable asset to an NHL team.I'm just guessing of course, but I bet GMs around the league like what they saw from Jagr last year. His production tailed off toward the end but overall he had quite a good season. Add in the intangibles he brings and you have a pretty attractive player, no? Especially considering that you don't have to marry the guy, it'll be a 1-year contract. What's not to like? (for anyone but the Flyers I mean, who I say already reaped the benefits of Jagr's impact last season. At best, for the Flyers, he'll give us another year of the same...and with all our young guys [who need ice time] that's not a good ROI imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I suppose you're right - I hadn't thought the Pens thing through - the "snubbing" as you called it. Still, I can easily see how the Pens would like Jagr...the "elder statesman" with a maniacal commitment to fitness and self-discipline, etc. Jagr could slot in nicely on their PP. They're not exactly loaded on the wing either. Obviously we don't know how serious the "snubbing" was, whether the Pens would let it override a business decision that *should* make the team better next year.Not sure why "Jagr means less to Detroit now, especially after signing with the Flyers" but maybe you will elaborate. If anything I think the Wings have one less reason to hesitate going after him: he proved he's still a valuable asset to an NHL team.I'm just guessing of course, but I bet GMs around the league like what they saw from Jagr last year. His production tailed off toward the end but overall he had quite a good season. Add in the intangibles he brings and you have a pretty attractive player, no? Especially considering that you don't have to marry the guy, it'll be a 1-year contract. What's not to like? (for anyone but the Flyers I mean, who I say already reaped the benefits of Jagr's impact last season. At best, for the Flyers, he'll give us another year of the same...and with all our young guys [who need ice time] that's not a good ROI imo).I just don't see where the "rental" makes sense for either team. With the Flyers he's an integrated piece, with another team they have to find the fit.I also think both Detroit and Pittsburgh are in the position of the Flyers with having younger players who can use the ice time. The "influence" of a Jagr might be a positive, but it's likely just for one year on those two teams. Moreover, I could see where from Jagr's perspective Detroit without Lidstrom is something of a different animal.Pittsburgh fans certainly felt snubbed and Jagr obviously felt he was being lowballed. I also just can't see Bylsma making that argument vociferously.I think what you need to look at is possible contenders with cap space that would want to invest in what is likely a one year rental. The Flyers are near the top of that list. I would say Detroit is on it, with more cap space, but lower down.When he signed, I got the feeling that Jagr wasn't looking to be a vagabond in his last few years in the league. He wanted to see if he could still go in the NHL and he wanted a chance to win.We'll see what the terms are soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 When he signed, I got the feeling that Jagr wasn't looking to be a vagabond in his last few years in the league. He wanted to see if he could still go in the NHL and he wanted a chance to win.well that's interesting. I got a different feeling altogether. To me he sounded like a wealthy shopper looking for an exact fit, and if one didn't exist he made it clear that one should be tailored for him. Now I admit I was reading those quotes through the prism of my old "hatred" for the guy so I factor that in. Certainly his contribution to the Flyers this year erased that hatred and I grew to like him in the O&B.But here we are nearing the start of FA and he sounds like that wealthy shopper all over again. Of course he is that wealthy shopper and there's nothing wrong with that. But I'm getting that same feeling I had last summer, that Jagr expects (demands) a "perfect fit" (key roles on the PP, top line) and if anything less is offered he's walking out of the store.btw - good point about the Wings sans Lidstrom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 well that's interesting. I got a different feeling altogether. To me he sounded like a wealthy shopper looking for an exact fit, and if one didn't exist he made it clear that one should be tailored for him. Now I admit I was reading those quotes through the prism of my old "hatred" for the guy so I factor that in. Certainly his contribution to the Flyers this year erased that hatred and I grew to like him in the O&B.But here we are nearing the start of FA and he sounds like that wealthy shopper all over again. Of course he is that wealthy shopper and there's nothing wrong with that. But I'm getting that same feeling I had last summer, that Jagr expects (demands) a "perfect fit" (key roles on the PP, top line) and if anything less is offered he's walking out of the store.btw - good point about the Wings sans Lidstrom.Well, I would let him walk if he was headed to the door in that situation.I think he absolutely was the wealthy shopper last year and he has always had that air about him. But I think he "bought" last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Yes he did. And I think the Flyers did him justice by playing him as much as they did. After being "converted" to liking Jagr this year - enough anyway - I was a little surprised to read all the "Next year I want more playing time" and "I want a bigger role on the PP" quotes. Reminded a little too much why I disliked him all those years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Yes he did. And I think the Flyers did him justice by playing him as much as they did. After being "converted" to liking Jagr this year - enough anyway - I was a little surprised to read all the "Next year I want more playing time" and "I want a bigger role on the PP" quotes. Reminded a little too much why I disliked him all those years...I just don't find those quotes(?)There were some reports about him being upset about playing time in the postseason. The only quote I found was him saying if he didn't feel he should be playing more, he shouldn't be in the NHL. For me, that's competitiveness. Those same articles had him also saying he understood the situation (Laviolette was scrambling to get something going) and he wasn't upset by it.There was the end-of-season group where Jagr was "unsure" where he would be next season. Of course he is "unsure" as he has no contract. Since then, Svoboda is on record saying that's no longer true and they expect to re-sign with the Flyers - a deal before the draft.If you have those quotes from Jagr, I'd certainly like to read them. I spent some time googling and came up empty (with a lot of stories pointing out that "playing time" was a reason he came to the Flyers last season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 highly doubtful he gets more than a year. That's what he's [supposedly] asking for - so apparently nobody has an interest in extending it past that.Can hockey contract have "options"- i.e. agreed upon terms but option excercised by the team to commit that contract a second year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 If you have those quotes from Jagr, I'd certainly like to read them. I spent some time googling and came up empty (with a lot of stories pointing out that "playing time" was a reason he came to the Flyers last season).I too have not read anything of that nature out of the jagr camp and that kind of seems like Jagr of old fodder. I think that groin stuff aside, that Jagr would be the first to tell you he hit the wall a bit in the last third / playoffs. I think he is smart enough that he would prefer to have gas in the tank for the "real" season that play and extra two and half minutes a night during the regular season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Can hockey contract have "options"- i.e. agreed upon terms but option excercised by the team to commit that contract a second year?Not in the current CBA. Contracts are guaranteed in full, no options, no extensions until the final year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I just don't find those quotes(?)There were some reports about him being upset about playing time in the postseason. The only quote I found was him saying if he didn't feel he should be playing more, he shouldn't be in the NHL. For me, that's competitiveness. Those same articles had him also saying he understood the situation (Laviolette was scrambling to get something going) and he wasn't upset by it.There was the end-of-season group where Jagr was "unsure" where he would be next season. Of course he is "unsure" as he has no contract. Since then, Svoboda is on record saying that's no longer true and they expect to re-sign with the Flyers - a deal before the draft.If you have those quotes from Jagr, I'd certainly like to read them. I spent some time googling and came up empty (with a lot of stories pointing out that "playing time" was a reason he came to the Flyers last season).Oh no, really? I gotta go digging on the web for the "I want a bigger role next year" quotes? Sorry - I can't do it. All I can say is they were from www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers - Carchidi or Panochio (whatever) or one of those guys. And they were quotes - it wasn't the author "extrapolating" or anything. I'll try and find them later maybe.In any case I didn't mean to suggest Jagr was being a complete d-i-c-k about it, but he certainly said the things I referenced. Right after the season ended he was very complimentary toward the Flyers organization but didn't commit to wanting to come back. Then the stories started appearing about how he wants a more active role on the PP and a bigger role in general. Now we're at "Jagr likely to return" and the reason it's a surprise is because of those quotes I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Yeah I'm saying if they are so egregious and out there they should be easy to find.They aren't.Here's panaccio in january (he doesn't write for philly.com any more)http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=41471All i'm asking for is a direct quote that you say exists. If it doesn't then, that's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) Oh no, really? I gotta go digging on the web for the "I want a bigger role next year" quotes? Sorry - I can't do it. All I can say is they were from www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers - Carchidi or Panochio (whatever) or one of those guys. I don't think I saw Jagr's saying BIGGER role............ and I have no desire right now to go hunting for the quotes, articles, columns, etc. But from what I recall (without remembering his exact words), he said he wanted to continue playing a prominant role on the team - I am paraphrasing of course. I believe it was in his blog (in which case all we need do is just find that thread, which was created not so long ago.... I believe by Irishjim). I think Jagr said something along the lines of he did NOT want to be playing on a team which woudl relegate him to a third line, where he woudl be viewed as a just a roster filler. I don't remember whether he actually said that, but I think he hinted that he wanted to continue skating on teh 1st line and play big minutes on the ice time.And that's the rason why I don't think he is what this team needs next year. And my main concern is his age and his durability, especially come playoff time. I also there's gotta be someone who is faster and more versatile playing on Giroux line. I would be willing to at last experiemnt with either Voracek or Couturier, or signing a non-expensive veteran. But then you would need to put Jagr on a second or third line, and he won't be happy with that.I wonder, though, if there is any benefit in trying him with Brier. Say Voracek moves to the 1st line (hypothetically). Now you have Brier - Jagr - Simmonds line. Jagr woudl still see plenty of ice time and possibly play on PP. But I don't know if this would be a good line. Both Jagr and Brier are aging and Simmonds doesn't exactly "burn it" either. I can see that line getting caught up the ice and burned on many counter rushes. Edited June 17, 2012 by Mad Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 But from what I recall (without remembering his exact words), he said he wanted to continue playing a prominant role on the team - I am paraphrasing of course. I believe it was in his blog (in which case all we need do is just find that thread, which was created not so long ago.... I believe by Irishjim). I think Jagr said something along the lines of he did NOT want to be playing on a team which woudl relegate him to a third line, where he woudl be viewed as a just a roster filler. I don't remember whether he actually said that, but I think he hinted that he wanted to continue skating on teh 1st line and play big minutes on the ice time.Bingo! Thanks Dog, you got it. That's what I was referring to. I don't remember the exact quotes either but you got the gist of it. So ... is "prominent" the same as "bigger"? I guess not. But it's a candidate for discussion at the annual Hair-Splitters Convention I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Jagr's not looking to be a 3/4th liner at this point in his career. I can't blame him. I wouldn't want him if he did. He's not Chris Chelios playing ot the string.And, as I said, I'm not entirely sure I want him now. Depends a lot on the terms of the deal. Reserving judgement until it's real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 TSN's Dreger saying: "Jaromir Jagr enjoyed Phildadelphia, but plans on testing free agency. Also plans to change training to shed some lbs and get faster." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 @Podein25Hey, I had a link...it's not my fault...LOL! Anyways, I can see the Wings and all their cap space scooping up Jagr and forming an all Euro line of Zetterberg, Dats adn Jagr. That would be a perfect fit for the Wings, a one year stop gap measure until the better crop of forward UFA's come out next season. They could actually afford to snag Praise, Suter AND Jagr...scary stuff! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 They could actually afford to snag Praise, Suter AND Jagr...scary stuff!It's unbelievable how almost every year Ken Holland manages to upgrade his roster *and* stay within the cap. Of course, this year Lidstrom coming off the books helps, but still.... one has to be impressed how this guy always finds a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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