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The Flyers need a Goalie !


Guest The Quigster
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Based on history repeating itself the Flyers need to pick up a goalie that can threaten Bryzo for his job. Not a career back-up like Biron,but like the Pens just did,a potential starter. I've read quotes from Homer and Snider about "B" being their starter in my opinion is a total fantasy.

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@ quigly 46

Why do you not think Bob can push Bryzgalov?

I really don't see the Flyers making a move at goaltender with Bob in the last year of his contract to start the season.

Vokoun is washed up........he really made a difference in the Capitals playoff run, eh?

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Vokoun is washed up........he really made a difference in the Capitals playoff run, eh?

what does that have to do with anything? the guy was injured, that is now a damning thing?

it was his worst season in 8 years, but...if your worst season in 8 years involves a .917sv%, "washed up" maybe isn't the word.

that said, of course quigly has it wrong again. the best recipe for utter failure from bryzgalov is to have someone "threaten" his job. the flyers management doesn't have the stones to actually let him lose the job, so the charade is pointless and counter productive.

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Agreed re: failure. The Flyers refuse to let Bryz earn or lose the job. It's his royal right practically.

@OP:

In other news, the Earth isn't flat it's spherical, and the Sun doesn't orbit Earth but the other way around.

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If there is an amnesty type of buyout in the new CBA, I say you buy out Bryz, he is not mentally tough enough to hack it in Philly.There is no point in paying all that money for an average goalie. He is a typical Russian who dissapears when the going gets tough. I cant count how many times I have seen it over the years ,most of those Euros are all the same, good talent ,but no mental fortitude, no consitency and come playoff time, they are all but invisible.. Bryz is nothing but a grossly overpaid Roman Cecmanek, GET RID OF HIM

Kovalev

Nedved

Zherdev

Semin

Gaborik

to name a few

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what does that have to do with anything? the guy was injured, that is now a damning thing?

it was his worst season in 8 years, but...if your worst season in 8 years involves a .917sv%, "washed up" maybe isn't the word.

that said, of course quigly has it wrong again. the best recipe for utter failure from bryzgalov is to have someone "threaten" his job. the flyers management doesn't have the stones to actually let him lose the job, so the charade is pointless and counter productive.

I think the hype over Vokoun is very much overrated. Vokoun imo, is on a downward spiral, his best days are well behind him. Vokoun isn't a threat what so ever to Flower's starting role. Can he be a serviceable backup? Sure but then most any backup can win 50% of their games.

Injuries are a damming thing. The loss of Pronger took a huge bite out of the Flyer's game plan last season, but hey no love loss here for the Flyers goaltenders. (sarcasm) Their huge GAA had of course nothing to do with that.

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I think the hype over Vokoun is very much overrated. Vokoun imo, is on a downward spiral, his best days are well behind him. Vokoun isn't a threat what so ever to Flower's starting role. Can he be a serviceable backup? Sure but then most any backup can win 50% of their games.

wow. a guy who has posted a .920sv% in 4 of his last 6 seasons, the other 2 being .919 and .917 is very much overrated, and is only a servicable backup by default. because most any backup is. on a downward spiral because, what, he dropped from .922 to .917 over the course of two seasons? dropped from 8th in the league to 15th. man, if that is a downward spiral, can only imagine what the take away is for bryzgalov, .921 to .909, 10th to 31st.

Injuries are a damming thing. The loss of Pronger took a huge bite out of the Flyer's game plan last season, but hey no love loss here for the Flyers goaltenders. (sarcasm) Their huge GAA had of course nothing to do with that.

i don't even know what this means, injuries are a damning thing. injuries happen in sports. are you doubling down on vokoun being washed up because he had the nerve to get hurt last year? the loss of pronger...what point are you trying to make here? was vokoun's groin injury functionally the same as pronger's concussion issues? and the flyer's goaltender's GAA was apparently the result of pronger's injury...while i'm sure it factored in, it doesn't explain the pathetic save percentages...and have you looked at the capital's d-corps recently? they don't have a pronger to lose, they go pronger-less all the time. also, and again, what does this have to do with vokoun being washed up?

i mean, whatever, your opinion is yours, and you're welcome to it. having a tough time seeing being based on much, and i'm not really seeing a lot of pertinent support for it, but there it is.

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wow. a guy who has posted a .920sv% in 4 of his last 6 seasons, the other 2 being .919 and .917 is very much overrated, and is only a servicable backup by default. because most any backup is. on a downward spiral because, what, he dropped from .922 to .917 over the course of two seasons? dropped from 8th in the league to 15th. man, if that is a downward spiral, can only imagine what the take away is for bryzgalov, .921 to .909, 10th to 31st.

That is of course one way to look at it. But if you look at last season Vokoun lost his starting role after earning it earlier in the season. Where as Bryz improved as the season wore on, until, where he suffered the stress fracture in his foot. Sure there were times Bryz was just aweful. Yet when the team played a strong defensive game he played well too. Bryz depends on the d-men to block shots and clear the puck. Alas, Bryz was very dependent upon a big defensive d-man in front of him, ......Pronger. Then Grossman. You've made it quite clear in past threads that Bryz is a disaster, however he can play well with the right defensive play in front of him. He is what he is. I believe he and Bob have something to prove this year.....which the numbers can't and won't predict.

You know as well as I do the numbers do not tell the whole story. I state that Vokoun's play is in decline not based on the numbers but the circumstances of where he is at right now. For one Vokoun will be 36 next season, coming off a groin injury that was stated as severe. He also won't be or even has the chance to be the starting goaltender in Pittsburgh. Thus he will get his 12-15 games next season, probably winning 50% of them or so. For what that is worth.....I call that a decline.

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But if you look at last season Vokoun lost his starting role after earning it earlier in the season. Where as Bryz improved as the season wore on, until, where he suffered the stress fracture in his foot.

when was that? he started 10 games in january (for reference, bryzgalov started 8), and 8 games in february (bryzgalov: 10), which is the month he was initially hurt. when did he lose his starting role prior to being injured? and, bryzgalov gets a pass due to being injured, but vokoun is damned for the same thing? do you see the inconsistency here?

Yet when the team played a strong defensive game he played well too. Bryz depends on the d-men to block shots and clear the puck. Alas, Bryz was very dependent upon a big defensive d-man in front of him, ......Pronger. Then Grossman. You've made it quite clear in past threads that Bryz is a disaster, however he can play well with the right defensive play in front of him.

do you see what you are saying here? i mean, literally anyone in the entire world, including quadriplegics and the legally dead, can play well with the "right" defensive play in front of them. so. so long as the defense doesn't make bryzgalov do anything outside of let what few pucks get through hit him in the chest, he can play great. the same logic, apparently, doesn't apply to vokoun, who is to be judged by his play alone and the defensive shortcomings of the team in front of him are not factored in. am i getting this right? bryzgalov requires a pronger-like presense in front of him, so with no pronger, you really can't blame him for being terrible. vokoun does not require that, and so we will use an entirely different yard stick for measurement. ???

the fact that vokoun has managed nothing less than a .917sv% over the last 7 years behind some really and truely terrible defenses is astounding. most recently, he did it behind a defense that is headlined by mike green, and the league's 4th worst giveaway machine, john carlson. but bryzgalov wasn't protected by pronger, so we'll just call his .909 the better of the two. becuase vokoun is in decline, whereas bryzgalov just didn't have the right D.

He also won't be or even has the chance to be the starting goaltender in Pittsburgh.

likely true. he is decidedly the backup to a much younger cup winning goalie.

Thus he will get his 12-15 games next season

pulled that one straight out of your butt. the penguins stated the point to bringing in vokoun was to reduce fleury's average of 65 starts per season. look for fleury to get ~55, with vokoun taking the other ~27.

probably winning 50% of them or so

more complete out-of-thin-air-ness. 25-17-2 on the defensively mediocre capitals. what could you possibly base a 50-50 split on with a presumably more competent corps in front of him?

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I believe Vokoun lost the starting position in late Feb and into March. Maybe it was a toss up between Neurirth and Vokoun at the time, but hey, his play for the most part Jan-March was inconsistent. Vokoun had only 4 starts the month of March where as Neuvirth had 9......but then those injuries in and out of the line-up in Feb-March, only add to my case that he is in decline. If his play was so outstanding or his injuries weren't an issue why didn't the Caps re-sign him to a longer contract? Surely they could have traded away Neuvirth for much more value. I think the caps knew that Vokoun will continue to have some injury groin / back issues and unloaded him.

do you see what you are saying here? i mean, literally anyone in the entire world, including quadriplegics and the legally dead, can play well with the "right" defensive play in front of them. so. so long as the defense doesn't make bryzgalov do anything outside of let what few pucks get through hit him in the chest, he can play great. the same logic, apparently, doesn't apply to vokoun, who is to be judged by his play alone and the defensive shortcomings of the team in front of him are not factored in. am i getting this right? bryzgalov requires a pronger-like presense in front of him, so with no pronger, you really can't blame him for being terrible. vokoun does not require that, and so we will use an entirely different yard stick for measurement. ???

:P I get what your saying here, but in reality it took the defensive pairings some time to work out the miscues and the puck handing with Bryzgalov. It was as if the whole game plan changed due to the loss Pronger. Maybe too much of the Flyers game plan was controlled by a healthy Pronger, but I think the strategy will be different going into next season.

And yes, I took the 12-15 games that a back-up goalie gets right out of the "aziz school of back-up goaltenders" ;) No way Vokoun gets 27 starts!!

I think for a back-up goaltender winning 50% of their games is averagely decent. The outstanding ones, ie Holtby, Schneider, Hedberg.......are the exceptions.

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Well, HF101, Bryz was NOT given a chance from his signing day by most, but not all. Then he is quirky and tried to open up to the media about his hobbies, philosphies and family life (and dogs). We ripped Carter and Richards for not speaking and given those 2 were just traded that day he probably thought it would be good to talk allot...

However, he underestimated the rabit fan base and brutal media and, yes, cracked under the pressure. Just like most Flyers stars and goalies since the 80's... I hope Giroux is OK this year or they will turn on him too. Then he gets hurt when just hitting his stride... But most will overlook that for convience to their argument and this has been going on for nearly a year now. With the blue line chaos and the pressure things didn't go well... But over a hundred points for the season and 2nd/3rd highest scoring team and all is lost...?

Sorry HF101, just sick of same dead dog being dragged threw the mud. Not your fault at all...

People will always find something to complain about...

So flame away on me folks, for I think Bryz will be fine this year so long as we sign 1 good d-man...

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I believe Vokoun lost the starting position in late Feb and into March. Maybe it was a toss up between Neurirth and Vokoun at the time, but hey, his play for the most part Jan-March was inconsistent. Vokoun had only 4 starts the month of March where as Neuvirth had 9......but then those injuries in and out of the line-up in Feb-March, only add to my case that he is in decline.

yes, he was injured in mid february, and was in and out the lineup the rest of the way, finally being shelved for the season march 30th. he lost the starting position because he was hurt. in the same way giroux lost the #1 center position while he was hurt. the only difference being that giroux was hurt midseason and came back, vokoun was hurt at the end of the season, and didn't. it's not like a guy missing time due to injury is exactly rare, hf.

If his play was so outstanding or his injuries weren't an issue why didn't the Caps re-sign him to a longer contract? Surely they could have traded away Neuvirth for much more value. I think the caps knew that Vokoun will continue to have some injury groin / back issues and unloaded him.

and i think the caps knew they have a couple of quality options in neuvirth and holtby. vokoun is 36, and has limited time left. either one of the kids could be the caps' goalie for the next 15 years. they made a decision that -as big a vokoun fan as i am- makes a lot of sense, while making little to no comment on vokoun's ability to play the position in the short term.

I get what your saying here, but in reality it took the defensive pairings some time to work out the miscues and the puck handing with Bryzgalov. It was as if the whole game plan changed due to the loss Pronger. Maybe too much of the Flyers game plan was controlled by a healthy Pronger, but I think the strategy will be different going into next season.

you again bring this up like it is a situation unique to the flyers and bryzgalov, and this it somehow levels the comparitive playing field with a guy like vokoun. as i said in the previous post, the caps D features guys like green, carlson, hamrlik, wideman....miscues are a fact of life in washington. a pronger-less flyers blueline is head and shoulder's above a completely healthy capitals' blueline. the fact that bryzgalov only had half a season of pronger in front of him in no way explains away his issues. certainly not more than never having had a pronger-like player in front of him at all explains vokoun's issues.

And yes, I took the 12-15 games that a back-up goalie gets right out of the "aziz school of back-up goaltenders"

that chapter of the handbook refers specifically to backups behind workhorse starters who prefer a heavy workload. broduer, lundqvist, price, quick, rinne, ward, hiller, and yes, bryzgalov. to the extent he ever played well last season, it was when he was getting 4 of 5 starts. his worst was when he was seeing 2 of 3. obviously, playoffs aside, because he was brutal across the board at that point. back to vokoun/pittsburgh, up until this upcoming season, fleury was on that list of large start numbers. the penguins attributed his collapse in the first round at least in part to too much work during the season, and brought vokoun in to carry more of the load than they could trust to johnson.

I think for a back-up goaltender winning 50% of their games is averagely decent. The outstanding ones, ie Holtby, Schneider, Hedberg.......are the exceptions.

lol. you are talking about a goalie who has been in the top 15 goaltenders in the league in terms of save percentage for 7+ years. top 10 in 5 of the last 7. top 5 in 4 of the last 7, and top 3 in 2 of the last 4. he's had less than a .917sv% once in the last 9 years, and that was 8 years ago. while i admit and agree that he is probably at the begining of the end of his career, to refer to him as "averagely decent" because of a .917 / 25-17-2 year behind a deeply flawed caps team...... i mean, ok, it wasn't the best season ever, but....now you are placing johan hedberg above him? sheesh.

and dear god, if vokoun is averagely decent, i can't imagine the adjectives appropriate for bryzgalov.

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Well, HF101, Bryz was NOT given a chance from his signing day by most, but not all.

that's because there hasn't been a bigger ball of baseless hype in the NHL since jim carey. and some of us knew it.

So flame away on me folks, for I think Bryz will be fine this year so long as we sign 1 good d-man...

so....1 guy who will be on the ice for 23-ish minutes will stop things like this from happening?

oh, wait, wrong year, i meant...

damn, wrong one again, this stuff has been going on a long time, it seems. ok, one more time

****! at this point, i blame couture. last one, promise

so, yeah, 1 dman will fix that?

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Wow, Noodle, you really dug into your bag of hot air this time to prove someone else wrong. I don't have the time nor desire to post a bunch of videos but you know i could come up with as many good saves as bad ones. Whats this crazy talk about hype and Jim Carey? Whatever. How many times was he hung out to dry by the D- ? If your going to criticize him them look at both sides. Thats all I'm getting at but this Carle and Bryz hate is just plain stupid. But you are allowed your opinion, as am I. And just an FYI, you are not a super hero who can see what's coming so much better than most others. Just saying...

Peace- IP

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you know i could come up with as many good saves as bad ones.

that is probably about exactly correct. 40 or so bad goals, 40 or so good saves. think that's a good ratio?

Whats this crazy talk about hype and Jim Carey?

are you familiar with jim carey?

How many times was he hung out to dry by the D- ? If your going to criticize him them look at both sides. Thats all I'm getting at but this Carle and Bryz hate is just plain stupid.

2 things.

1. the entire idea behind one goalie being better than another at the nhl level is their ability to compensate and make tough saves. all goalies are going to get beat sometimes, but the measure of their talent is the ability to succeed in difficult situations, including those spots where their defense fails them. given that a defensive breakdown equals automatic goal against bryzgalov, that puts him at the very bottom of the talent pile.

2. being hung out to dry has nothing to do with allowing goals on wrist shots from the blueline, being incapable of keeping up with lateral plays, letting pucks squirt between the blocker and body, or misplaying pucks onto oncoming forwards' sticks. if the only bad goals bryzgalov allowed were where he was left out to dry, i'd still be pissed, because that would mean he was an entirely average goalie and no where near deserving of his contract. the fact that he allows a WHOLE lot more than those......

And just an FYI, you are not a super hero who can see what's coming so much better than most others.

lies.

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yes, he was injured in mid february, and was in and out the lineup the rest of the way, finally being shelved for the season march 30th. he lost the starting position because he was hurt.

Hurt and then inconsistent when in the line-up. Vokoun also had back issues the end of the previous season. My point being he is most likely wearing down. Why didn't Vokoun wait until FA to play in a positon where he could condend to be the starter???????........He isn't going to improve, imo, and I'm predicting a decline. Maybe his stats will be as you state consistent as in his past about a 2.5 gaa goalie, but then he has been playing on a regular basis to keep those stats. As a backup who knows? I just don't think you can use his starting goaltending stats to predict how he does when he only starts once every 10 days.

up until this upcoming season, fleury was on that list of large start numbers. the penguins attributed his collapse in the first round at least in part to too much work during the season, and brought vokoun in to carry more of the load than they could trust to johnson.

Since 2008 Fleury has started 65-67 games a year, his gaa and his save% have stayed relatively consistent since winning the cup. None of which are great numbers. But none of that data suggests Fleury has played too many games. On the other hand, Johnson won approx 50 percent of his starts until last year. Thus iit probably isn't Fleury that needs less ice time, it was Johnson who needed to be replaced. I highly doubt Fleury is looking forward to playing less games and being in a position where he can lose his starting position. He will probably have one of his best seasons due to the competition rather than some extra rest.

Hedberg has been a rather serviceable backup goalie for Jersey, which is probably more telling of the defensive style of play than the talent level itself. But going by the numbers Hedberg fashioned a 2.23 gaa in 27 games.....just sayin.

But hey then again, Vokoun may be able to switch to the back-up roll just fine.

and dear god, if vokoun is averagely decent, i can't imagine the adjectives appropriate for bryzgalov.

I think you have stated all of them in previous posts. ;)

......and Pronger's eye injury 3 weeks into the season is hardly playing with him for half a season......but I guess that doesn't really matter either. Hopefully a defensive corp with less emphasis on one player will make a difference next year.

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Since 2008 Fleury has started 65-67 games a year, his gaa and his save% have stayed relatively consistent since winning the cup. None of which are great numbers. But none of that data suggests Fleury has played too many games. On the other hand, Johnson won approx 50 percent of his starts until last year. Thus iit probably isn't Fleury that needs less ice time, it was Johnson who needed to be replaced.

ok, but i'm not supposing. that's what the penguins said.

shero after the vokoun signing:

"Keep [Fleury] fresh, keep him focused....He's still our guy. That hasn't changed...I think the position is demanding physically and mentally these days"

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ok, but i'm not supposing. that's what the penguins said.

Since when did you suddenly take merit in GM quotes? B)

I agree, Fleury's focus will be...... to not take nights off. However that statement doesn't really present much motivation for Vokoun though, especially with his NTC?

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