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Making a case to trade for Bobby Ryan


Guest Irishjim

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While being something of a Devil's advocate above, I think I've been pretty clear that I'd move just about anybody on this team for "the right deal."

Nevertheless, you must admit that the patience of Flyer fans (and more importantly the organization) with first round players (and draft picks in general) not named "Simon Gagne" was in very short supply over ther past... decade or two.

And even Simon was given little more than a "thankyouverymuch" and "canwehaveyourcapspacenowplease" on the way out of town by more than a few. Meanwhile the team got the opportunity to pay Matt Walker $5.1M to play in the AHL over three years in exchange.

For all of the talent that was drafted and all of the talent that has performed well and won in other places, the Flyers still have not won the Cup despite all the "talent" that was brought in to replace them.

My point isn't that a team should NEVER trade it's own players, just that ometimes when you think you're chasing the dragon, you're really strung out on heroin.

Take the LA Kings, for example. Over the past ten years they traded away/dropped picks like Frolov, Boyle, Tambellini, Schenn and Simmonds but kept Brown, Quick, Kopitar, Doughty, Clifford, Bernier and throw in King, Lewis, Lokotinov, Martinez, Parse, Voynov.

From the past ten years' drafts, the Flyers have Giroux, JVR and Couturier and throw in Wellwood, Rinaldo and MAB.

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@radoran, so what you are saying is that best chance any of the current Flyers have of winning the Cup is to be traded. And it would explain why Nash allegedly said he doesn't want to go to Philly, he is superstitious.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the Flyers have a tendency to go with the "grass is always greener" approach and covet another team's players more than it values its own.

The Flyers have a nice, solid young core that just had a great playoff run, despite the result. I'd rather build on that than try to work some fantasy league deal.

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@radoran In general, the Flyer fanbase is just as you describe, with a distinct " grass is always greener" type of mentality. Perhaps the extra player movement that came with he salary cap era has made us colder than usual. Everybody seems expendable in some way. Sign of the times I guess.....

When pondering about the job our current GM has done, I wonder...does he have a master plan? Seems like he is kinda freestyling, by the seat of his pants and does not give enough forethought to the cap in a long term kind of way. I believe you are stating you don't make a deal just to make a deal, there has to be some kind of need or cap implication addressed. I wonder if Homer adheres to this line of thinking?

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@radoran In general, the Flyer fanbase is just as you describe, with a distinct " grass is always greener" type of mentality. Perhaps the extra player movement that came with he salary cap era has made us colder than usual. Everybody seems expendable in some way. Sign of the times I guess.....

When pondering about the job our current GM has done, I wonder...does he have a master plan? Seems like he is kinda freestyling, by the seat of his pants and does not give enough forethought to the cap in a long term kind of way. I believe you are stating you don't make a deal just to make a deal, there has to be some kind of need or cap implication addressed. I wonder if Homer adheres to this line of thinking?

Yeah. For example, I think Ryan at $5.1M for 3 vs. JVR at $4.25M for six is an interesting proposition cap-wise. Assuming he has "chemistry" with Giroux (and from what Jagr/Lavi have said, who wouldn't) then I think you plug in a proven commodity over an unproven one and let it happen. I think that's a potential 100-goal line (42-33-25??).

But, if JVR pans out, he will be significantly underpaid by the end of his deal and if Ryan is a 40-goal scorer with Giroux he's going to command more than $5.1M when he comes up three years from now..

I do think that after Richards/Crater and "getting different" Homer changed directions a bit and I hope he keeps going.

I don't know why Anaheim would have any interest in Bob, though. They seem committed to Hiller, who's signed for two more. What do they get out of acquiring Bob?

So what's the deal? JVR + 1st (20) + Wellwood? Read? throw in Bartulis?

If you can upgrade without losing, you make the deal. What does Anaheim get out of all this?

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@radoran "what does Anahiem get out of this?" I've been wondering the same thing myself. To give up a 4 time 30 goal scorer for a guy who has cracked 20 only once (and just barely).....that is a either a awkward leap of faith or signifigant commodities go along with JVR. The 20th would go a long way to evening that trade up, with a mid-level prospect or lower draft pick finishing off the transaction. I'd rather throw in a Gustafson/Bartulis/Laurdenson (really any defensive prospect other than Boudon for me) than a young forward like Welly/Read/ or a Harry Z. I know you have to give to get, but keep our young wingers and even it out some other way.

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I think most know, historically, I've been on the side of "don't trade JVR, have some patience". As the years pass by, and the uninspired play pro-longs, it only makes sense to entertain the thought of dealing him to upgrade a weak point on the team. As I see it, this is the year that determines whether JVR is a legit power forward or career 3rd liner. It would be a shame to be on the losing side of that proposition and have his value vastly diminish before our eyes. Is dealing him a calculated risk, yes....most certainly. But should it not be at least explored, the team would be having a disservice done to it. I'm thinking Homer knows this all to well.

I am in no way in favor of dumping JvR. The kid has promise.

But if trading him lands us Bobby Ryan, I do that deal so fast your head would spin.

I watch a LOT of Ducks games living out here in San Diego & Ryan is easily one of my favorite players to watch. (The only Duck I like more is Selanne, who is an all-time great.) That kid busts it out there on the ice and he puts the puck in the net.

Put him on a line with Giroux and Hartnell? Wow!

Edited by AndyS
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I watch a LOT of Ducks games living out here in San Diego & Ryan is easily one of my favorite players to watch. (The only Duck I like more is Selanne, who is an all-time great.) That kid busts it out there on the ice and he puts the puck in the net.

So my question is why do the Ducks want to deal him?

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So my question is why do the Ducks want to deal him?

No idea. There has been talk about that possibility for a couple years.

He didn't develop as quickly as they wanted after he was drafted. Maybe their FO is just biased against the kid from that point onward.

Maybe he hangs out with Richards and Carter too much? j/k ;)

Maybe money is tight for the Ducks right now?

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taking on Ryan at $5 mil means that Jagr's $3.5 mil is off the books. Couple that with JVR's $4.5 mil, which will go in the trade and the cap scenario isn't too shabby.

ah if only it were this easy... and I guess the money-part is. But - and I'm sure someone already said it (sorry didn't read the whole thread) but what about our priorities? We need Defensive help don't we? Or are we just going to double-down on Lavy's Offense-First plan of attack?

For whatever reason that didn't work out so well last year. Yes there were tons of rookie minutes, and our starting goalie wasn't very good most of the time. But either the guys were cashed-out by R2 (becasue of playing that style for 88 games, the last 6 being pure track meets) or else we're just not good enough to play offense all the time. If we could somehow become the Wings by September I'm all for trying the Go-Go-Go approach again. But I hope we can find a way to make it last this time...thru 105 games or so... :)

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