jammer2 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @doom88 I fear the Flyers will fill any potential Carle void with Garrison, the unproven cannon. Can't afford to make a mistake with this selection should Carle bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @doom88 I fear the Flyers will fill any potential Carle void with Garrison, the unproven cannon. Can't afford to make a mistake with this selection should Carle bolt.If Carle walks I hope they do nothing. Let guys develop from the AHL then.Timonen CoburnMesz SchennBourdon GrossmannAnd try to keep the TOI similar across all three pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 he's a turnover machineNo he's not.http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2012/6/28/3123863/are-matt-carles-turnovers-that-costly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 No he's not.http://www.broadstre...ers-that-costlyare you Carles agent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @orange_crushAre you his ex-wife? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If we lose Carle and with the addition of Schenn, we were really no better off than last year. Schenn ends up being a replacement dman ,instead of and additional dman. As I have harped on, and will say it again...Timmo is coming off back surgery and is beaten down and worn out, Mez is also coming off back surgery, and with the way our medical staff has been in the past with injured players ,do you really want to take a chance and not have another vet dman on this team? If Carle goes we need another veteran dman,no doubt about it, or further along in the season when we get out usual slew of injuries we will end up being fleeced in deal to acquire a dman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @orange_crushAre you his ex-wife?lol..I wish that b i t c h is probably making a fortune.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @Podein25 Hmmm, very, very interesting article. Ya see, I consider you and doom to be hockey experts, so if you *both* (along with many other posters I consider excellent also) insist that Carle is not as bad defensively as I seem to remember, I'm gonna have to give you guys the benefit of the doubt AND you have that article to back up the claim. It appears my memory *might* have been selective because I've just never liked Carle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If we lose Carle and with the addition of Schenn, we were really no better off than last year. Schenn ends up being a replacement dman ,instead of and additional dman. As I have harped on, and will say it again...Timmo is coming off back surgery and is beaten down and worn out, Mez is also coming off back surgery, and with the way our medical staff has been in the past with injured players ,do you really want to take a chance and not have another vet dman on this team? If Carle goes we need another veteran dman,no doubt about it, or further along in the season when we get out usual slew of injuries we will end up being fleeced in deal to acquire a dman.I honestly think Gus can step up and fill Carle's role...with a healthy Kimmo, Mezo, Grossman, Scheen, and Bourdon...I think our d corp is pretty solid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 wait he's not married to Clancey Kabella any longer. That explains the "lack of physical contact" that people say he has.......Poor guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @RonJeremyThere really are not the same type of defender (Carle and Schenn). It is to my understanding that Schenn was used incorrectly in Toronto; which coincided with his struggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 A few games of watching Schenn "skate" the puck up, or "pass" the puck up, will have the knuckledraggers here begging for Carle back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @doom88, HEALTHY is the key word here, Timmo is not a young guy, back surgery on anyone is not a sure fire cure,we have 2 of our top dmen coming off back surgery and Timmo has taken a beating over the years. I'm awfully worried that there could be complications with Timmo or Mez, or especially with Timmo, probably missing games to rest his back,etc. I think we need to at least inquire on some other veteran dman, imagine if Timmo went down for a long stretch, we would be screwed. I'd like to work Boudon and Gus in slowly,paring each with another vet. Don't forget ,we also lost Bourdon twice to concussions last year,and Gus had surgery.We also lost Mez for a long stretch.We don't seem to have much luck with injuries to our defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @orange_crushI like Gus and Bourdon very much too, but it is unrealistic to expect either of them to chew up the minutes that Carle chews up without getting injured. I bet you the issue with Carle isn't $$$ per se, but term. I could see Homer only offering a shorter term deal knowing that Gus and Bourdon are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Think about how confident we were going into this season, and then Pronger goes down, thank god we had traded for Mez,previously then Mez goes down. It seems like we are always having to trade for defense due to injuries. In the past we gave up Williams for Markhov,this year JVR. We had to trade for Garrison and Kubina,it seems like every year our D gets big time injuries. If Carle walks,maybe we for for Garrison,I'd rather have too many dmen,than not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Oh my...what a cynical viewpoint...I can't imagine why you'd think that way... I know, crazy huh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @Podein25 Hmmm, very, very interesting article. Ya see, I consider you and doom to be hockey experts, so if you *both* (along with many other posters I consider excellent also) insist that Carle is not as bad defensively as I seem to remember, I'm gonna have to give you guys the benefit of the doubt AND you have that article to back up the claim. It appears my memory *might* have been selective because I've just never liked Carle.Thank you for the kind words.From a behavioral science POV, if you don't like someone, you're more likely to dismiss their positives, and exaggerate (or flat out manufacture) their shortcomings. Vise versa applies as well, however that's where things like corsi, stats, and independent information similar to what @Podein25 provided comes in to play. Hell, a Pens fan here wants him on their team. Carle is at least the #2 UFA defenseman, for a reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @doom88, HEALTHY is the key word here, Timmo is not a young guy, back surgery on anyone is not a sure fire cure,we have 2 of our top dmen coming off back surgery and Timmo has taken a beating over the years. I'm awfully worried that there could be complications with Timmo or Mez, or especially with Timmo, probably missing games to rest his back,etc. I think we need to at least inquire on some other veteran dman, imagine if Timmo went down for a long stretch, we would be screwed. I'd like to work Boudon and Gus in slowly,paring each with another vet. Don't forget ,we also lost Bourdon twice to concussions last year,and Gus had surgery.We also lost Mez for a long stretch.We don't seem to have much luck with injuries to our defense.Healthy eh? How many games has Carle missed the last three seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @doom88 Maybe somebody else can help me out here. I distinctly remember Carle making huge defensive gaffs at the end of back to back games in November. I remember swearing his name out loud....lol. This article however, does not back up my recollections....anyone else remember these early to mid Nov meltdowns....or am I just piped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Oh no, they happened generally (can't recall those specific ones), but he's not perfect. Just very good. I would suggest they are no more frequent than most with his ice time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Yeah, not saying the article is wrong or anyting like that, just seem to remember things that don't show up in that article. If anything, my memory is prob at fault...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Is Carle worth more than Coburn? I know Coburn had his struggles, but he has really become the staple of the Flyers defense. This reminds me of 2008 all over again where the Jeff Fingers of the world were getting 3.5mm per year. To me Coburn has a higher value than Carle. If Carle cannot be signed I would expect a trade early in the season (kind of like how we acquired Carle in the first place). I like Carle but not for over 5mm a year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I view Coburn as our best all around defensemen. He has shortcomings, but the strengths far outweigh the negatives. I feel secure with him on the ice (ie not nervous), which is as good a berometer as any for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @jammer2@BertmegaCoburn has progressed. It's been very incremental, almost imperceptive, but he has gotten better. He makes fewer mistakes and is more consistently solid. Still not nearly as nasty as most of us would like, but with Schenn on board we don't necessarily need Coburn to be that. He never will anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The realities of the market now compared to when Coburn signed are different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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