OH1FlyersFan Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Did he return after his fight? I watched the entire game and now that I think about it, I don't recall hearing his name mentioned after his fight. I know this topic has been done to death, but I want to get my thoughts down. It begs the questions -- other than Simmonds, who doesn't shy from a scrap, who else do we have to drop the gloves? Shelley? He wasn't in the lineup tonight either, was he? Do we need to keep a guy like that around or has the complexion of this team changed to the point where we move away from that all together? I have to think there's a happy medium somewhere. I love the fighting and grew up on it. It's part of Flyers legend. I believe it plays a real role, it sets a tone, you have to defend your guys, it can be a momentum changer, you have to be able to police the game. If there has been a shift away from that on this team, I'll miss it. It'll make me real nervous for our guys when we play against a big, physical team with a legit heavyweight. But that said, I can understand why and also see the benefits of such a shift away from the brawling. So, I guess what I'm saying is I'm torn and will continue to wrestle with my take on fighting, which, as hard as it is to say - may be softening! lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 It'll make me real nervous for our guys when we play against a big, physical team with a legit heavyweight.The game has all ready changed. I think you have to ask the question what teams play every night with a legit heavyweight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH1FlyersFan Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The game has all ready changed. I think you have to ask the question what teams play every night with a legit heavyweight?That's true. If it's a multilateral disarmament, then it's not such a big deal. It's harder to accept if it's unilateral. We'd be leaving ourselves exposed - because until teams stop putting those guys on the roster, period, you'll have to deal with it. But I think I've seen it - the game changing across the league. I think it will always be there, I don't think that it will ever go away unless there's an outright ban and the League makes it illegal. It just feels like there is less fighting. I haven't looked at the stats, but that might be an interesting project some weekend. How are the number of fighting majors trending over the last 5 or 10 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I don't think that it will ever go away unless there's an outright ban and the League makes it illegal.I highly doubt there will be an outright ban on fighting in the league. The league wants it, the players want it, and the fans want it. What they have done though is that designated players who only fight and have poor hockey skills are basically being removed from the rosters. While increasing the value on players who can and will drop the gloves on occasion. It may feel like there is less fighting because we can't predict when a fight or which individuals will be fighting on a given night. I'm not sure the numbers though have actually dropped, but maybe, so a study may be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinorama Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 How did Rinaldo get a charge on an otherwise great clean check?How did Bradley not get an instigator for the fight that soon followed?How did whoever the heck it was not get anything for knocking Talbot's teeth out? I'm not sure if he really lost teeth or not but if that isn't the definition of "players need to keep control of their stick" I don't know what is.I'll take the win but inconsistent officiating is driving me nuts. And no, I'm not trumpeting the "wah wah wah, the refs are out for my Flyers". The examples I brought up are legit and should've been called different, no matter what teams were playing. And okay, in case people think I can't see things both ways, I know Lilja got away with a pull down along the boards when he was falling and grabbed the Jersey of a Panther from behind and drug him down with no call. My take? Call that **** then. Jesus, call penalties that are penalties and leave penalties that aren't alone. I'm tired of seeing guys get called because they have a rep. And I'd really like to see the NHL implement some sort of system where if the ref that is further away from the action calls a penalty, he has to confer with the ref that is the closest first to determine if he saw what he thought he saw. The ref could either say "nope, it was a good play" or "you know, I didn't get a good look at it, let's go with your call"... you know what? as I type that, I don't like that either. The fact that these guys can make "judgement call" penalties is just as bad.Okay, done ranting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 There was little doubt the Refs were trying to control the game the way they thought it should be played. It is Hockey and things happen you can't control every shift every rush. I had to listen to the Panthers broadcast team and they felt the Refs were hard on both teams. I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Did he return after his fight? I watched the entire game and now that I think about it, I don't recall hearing his name mentioned after his fight.Yes Rinaldo played after his fight, but he only had one short shift in the third period. Only played just over 4min the entire game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent05 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Yes Rinaldo played after his fight, but he only had one short shift in the third period. Only played just over 4min the entire game.I don't like him at all, was happy Carcillo was gone now this kid takes his place. All he does is run around and hits, he has a bullseye on his back and the refs are watching. In every game that I watch he has taken atleast 1 penalty in each game he's played. That is ridiculous to me on top of our other stupid penalties the team takes. I can see him getting a few suspensions if he plays out the year on the Flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 They neutered the role of the heavyweight when they instituted the instigator penalty. And other than that, staged fights are stupid. Shelley pretty much only gets into staged fights.I much prefer guys like Rinaldo and Carcillo (during his one good year here) who are agitators, have skill, are fast, and will fight to protect teammates in the heat of the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH1FlyersFan Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I much prefer guys like Rinaldo and Carcillo (during his one good year here) who are agitators, have skill, are fast, and will fight to protect teammates in the heat of the moment.That's why I like Simmonds too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineFlyFan Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm LOVING the fact that we have guys now that can fight AND play hockey. I think its a good move to get the league away from the Shelly's and the talentless goons that occupy a roster spot to fight. Nonsense. I love a good hockey fight as much as the next guy but there has to be a happy medium. The fact we're paying Jody Shelly over a million dollars to sit on his ass in a tie every game makes me SICK!....We need to dump him ASAP.Simmonds is a REAL scrapper which I like and Rinaldo provides that spark and energy we need every once in a while (not to mention Talbot and hartnell will scrap if needs be).....i agree he was to watch his penalties and not go overboard and turn into a suspension machine, but I think having that "agitator" role on a team can be a good thing....with the exception of one Sean Avery...that's what you DON'T need on a team....one giant distraction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digityman Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 All he does is run around and hits, he has a bullseye on his back and the refs are watching. In every game that I watch he has taken atleast 1 penalty in each game he's played.That charging penalty in the first period was absolutely absurd from what I saw. I agree that he has a target on his back but that shouldn't matter. The refs shouldn't see names or numbers, only the play that's in front of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 That charging penalty in the first period was absolutely absurd from what I saw. I agree that he has a target on his back but that shouldn't matter. The refs shouldn't see names or numbers, only the play that's in front of them.For all the stupid penalties Hartnell takes, not all of them are earned. His reputation brings calls down on him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent05 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) That charging penalty in the first period was absolutely absurd from what I saw. I agree that he has a target on his back but that shouldn't matter. The refs shouldn't see names or numbers, only the play that's in front of them.Yes that's a bad call but he doesn't play the puck or you rarely see him play the puck. He's out there looking to hit every time he's on the ice. The league is looking at hits carefully so the refs will call anything borderline or if some1 gets hurt. I can see if he plays like Carcillo but he's not.Having trouble posting with Iphone Edited November 14, 2011 by Vincent05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digityman Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 @Vincent05 His job is to be physical out there and make things happen. That's really his job. He's 21 and is getting his first real taste of the NHL but I agree that he needs to start choosing his hits better. That takes time though. Carcillo has been in the league since 2006 and still hasn't figure that out. I'd give Zac some time to adjust his game and figure it all out. I do think he has a brain to do that, where Dan just can't figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Plus, unlike Carcillo, Rinaldo can actually hit people. He rarely misses. Carcillo spent more time crashing into the glass than he did players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamflyers Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The more Rinaldo plays, the more I like him. He can hit, fight and has decent speed. It is amazing that he already seems to be getting a rep where all he has to do his cleanly hit a guy really hard and he is gone for charging. His AHL rep must have followed him up here. He may not be the typical heavy weight, but I think he will keep other teams in check if they fear he could line up one of their top players with a big hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) I don't like him at all, was happy Carcillo was gone now this kid takes his place. All he does is run around and hits, he has a bullseye on his back and the refs are watching. In every game that I watch he has taken atleast 1 penalty in each game he's played. That is ridiculous to me on top of our other stupid penalties the team takes. I can see him getting a few suspensions if he plays out the year on the Flyers.I think rinaldo has had more than his fair share of bad calls against him. He's had a few great hits along the half boards that were called penalties. Last nights call on his great hit really pisses me off because if there is a real threat to hitting in this league, there it is... The refs who make those bad calls. I like what rinaldo brings. He fits the ne enforcer role. He can play, but he can also drop them. He's a high energy guy who raises the excitement level around him. What's not to like? Edited November 14, 2011 by Bakanekimiwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDI-Flyer Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I love his physical agitating play and the hits that he throws... remember the hit on Doughty? Big clean hit, Doughty did not come back. I'm pretty sure it was Zac who cleanly hit Jack Skille last night and he didn't come back either... That sort of big hit can be a game changer, in more ways than one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I don't like him at all, was happy Carcillo was gone now this kid takes his place. All he does is run around and hits...Sounds like you're the lone voice against this guy Vin. I see him exactly the opposite from "all he does." To me he's playing contained, smart and very aggressive hockey. He happens to love hitting guys but I've yet to see him cost us position or control because he was being irresponsible. I really like him. I had a good feeling last year when he got to skate a few shifts and I'm glad he's fitting in this year.When we go up against the more aggressive teams like the Broonz, the Ducks, the Pens (sort of) we'll be happy to have him throwing his body around. I suspect we'll even be glad Shelley's in the lineup those nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent05 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Don't get me wrong, love the hits he makes. He should teach our dman how to seperate the body from the puck. Seems like he plays out of the system to me, always looking for hits instead of playing the puck. If he plays within the game more they might not call penalties on him. Example is last night, the ref close by didn't call the hit a penalty but the ref far away from the play did. Why? He sees Zac skating from far away to line up the guy with a hit, I would think most of them would call that charging because they see him make a bee line to hit the guy. Zac goes out of the way to make hits instead of playing within the game if you know what I mean. As for the penalties, Hartnell and Briere already irk me with bonehead penalties, I don't want another guy adding to that.He will hurt us with the penalties as we are aready the 2nd most penalize team. When he gets suspended, he will take up a roster spot and cap hit while serving it. We are already kinda limited with how the roster is. Also within the past couple season I think we lead the league in player suspension too, so they might not take it easy on us again. Edited November 14, 2011 by Vincent05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalFlyfan Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 the only reason rinaldo got that charging call was because the panther he hit had his helmet shoot staright up in the air like like rocket blasting off right at the moment of contact. it looked too dramatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Man Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Def a bullseye on Rinaldo with his style of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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