Signed Contract Jagr signs with Stars

[Bakanekimiwa]

cannot believe i got all the way to the end of this thread without reading a very important point to why dallas signed him to the $4.55m/yr.

dallas needs to hit the cap FLOOR. they could afford to outbid everyone else on jagr even though they are most likely fully aware he's not worth that price tag. they decided he'd be a good addition and then simply out priced everyone because they *could*. nay... because they *needed* to. they're still under the cap floor, but should now cross over after resigning their remaining RFA's.

[jammer2]

@OSR29 ha ha, well you seem like a die hard fan, so I figured the whole situation was frustrating you to no end! Hopefully it comes around, maybe a few good showings can drum up some support. Soccer over hockey....EUUUCHHHKKKK!! LOL!

[jammer2]

@Bakanekimiwa Ahhh the ol' cap floor, eh? Excellent point.

[Mad Dog]

@JackStraw

From the day the Flyers signed him and through the end, he carried himself with class and pure professionalism.

Even the most demanding fans should appreciate what he did here.

Good luck JJ!

[OSR29]

@JackStraw

From the day the Flyers signed him and through the end, he carried himself with class and pure professionalism.

Even the most demanding fans should appreciate what he did here.

Good luck JJ!

I agree. When he signed here last year, lots of fans (including me), feared he would be a selfish guy, cancer to the lockerroom etc. Nothing was further from the truth. He was a class act all the way. The drawback was his injury problems and that seemed to fade a little in the playoffs. But as a teammate and mentor he was awesome, just as his former teammates.

[jammer2]

Yep, ol' jammer was not lying...lol, pretty nice call on the stats I must say....ha ha.

http://forums.philly.com/discussions/Flyers_Forum/_/_/kr-flyers/84274.11?nav=messages

[Vanflyer]

How exactly did the Flyers screw him? By giving him a chance to play next to Giroux for a season? By not ponying up 4.5 mil for a season? The Flyers did not "eff" him. There are only a few people here that are calling him money hungry. Most people here are happy for the season he had and have wished him well in Dallas. Would you like to make a (token) wager as to him reaching the numbers he put up this year?

Actually, if you took a pool, I would venture 80% would say he was money hungry. Go read all the posts. The Flyers left him no "outs". Tendering dual offers to Suter and Parise told Jagr everything he needed to know about the Flyers intentions regarding him. Maybe he asked for too much. Who knows. I think the market for him was 4m. He had a "try out year" with Philly after his 3 KHL years. I think 4m was too rich for the Flyers. There is nothing wrong with that.

But for people to blast away on multiple threads that JJ is all about money (especially at this point of his career), is a bit laughable to me. Dallas? Shocking- sure. I think it was Dallas-Detroit bidding war for him. Dallas had / has 25% more cap room (both teams have ALLOT).

To protect him at this point is a bit funny for me. But reading all the stuff about him in "the room" and "off ice", I admire and respect him. He is a multi millionaire and star in his homeland. .5m - 1m here or there does not mean that much. People saying he is way over paid make me laugh. They are the same people calling for Hartnells head two year ago. Wait and see how Hartnell does this year without a big body winger taking up space and freeing Giroux to wheel and deal.

[radoran]

Actually, if you took a pool, I would venture 80% would say he was money hungry. Go read all the posts. The Flyers left him no "outs". Tendering dual offers to Suter and Parise told Jagr everything he needed to know about the Flyers intentions regarding him. Maybe he asked for too much. Who knows. I think the market for him was 4m. He had a "try out year" with Philly after his 3 KHL years. I think 4m was too rich for the Flyers. There is nothing wrong with that.

But for people to blast away on multiple threads that JJ is all about money (especially at this point of his career), is a bit laughable to me. Dallas? Shocking- sure. I think it was Dallas-Detroit bidding war for him. Dallas had / has 25% more cap room (both teams have ALLOT).

To protect him at this point is a bit funny for me. But reading all the stuff about him in "the room" and "off ice", I admire and respect him. He is a multi millionaire and star in his homeland. .5m - 1m here or there does not mean that much. People saying he is way over paid make me laugh. They are the same people calling for Hartnells head two year ago. Wait and see how Hartnell does this year without a big body winger taking up space and freeing Giroux to wheel and deal.

I don't think it was "all about money" but it's clearly not a "want to win the Cup" move to sign with Dallas.

Or is it? Because, as I said, Dallas could be in a position with a valuable FA come deadline time to get a nice return on their one-year investment in a deal to a contender with need. Say... Philadelphia?

To me, that makes Jagr worth *at least* $500K more to Dallas than the Flyers. If They can translate that into a pick, prospect or two...

I would have signed Jagr at $3.3M again. At $4M, I'm less inclined. At $4.5M I've got better things to do with the extra $1.2M.

[Vanflyer]

I don't think it was "all about money" but it's clearly not a "want to win the Cup" move to sign with Dallas.

Or is it? Because, as I said, Dallas could be in a position with a valuable FA come deadline time to get a nice return on their one-year investment in a deal to a contender with need. Say... Philadelphia?

To me, that makes Jagr worth *at least* $500K more to Dallas than the Flyers. If They can translate that into a pick, prospect or two...

I would have signed Jagr at $3.3M again. At $4M, I'm less inclined. At $4.5M I've got better things to do with the extra $1.2M.

Interesting point. I never looked at it that way (regarding trade deadline).

On the salary- 3.3 was a tryout salary. 4m is market. If only the Phoenix thing would fall through the floor and we could go after Doan. Would you pay 4.5m - 5m for Doan for 3 years??

I would. It would be overpaying, but worth it.

[doom88]

Oct 30 he returns, and I hope to cheers ... And one last "Dude Looks Like a Lady" for old times sake.

[radoran]

Interesting point. I never looked at it that way (regarding trade deadline).

On the salary- 3.3 was a tryout salary. 4m is market. If only the Phoenix thing would fall through the floor and we could go after Doan. Would you pay 4.5m - 5m for Doan for 3 years??

I would. It would be overpaying, but worth it.

I'd sign Doan for 3Y/$15M, yes. And I don't think that would be "overpaying".

Reason being Doan's played 79-72-82-82-80 plus playoffs in the past five years.

Jagr played 73-49-51-55-82 plus playoffs in the past five years.

And Doan's five years younger than Jagr.

I'm not knocking Jagr, I'm just saying for me, from the Flyers' perspective, he's not worth the $4.5M investment.

[Vanflyer]

And Doan's five years younger than Jagr.

Plus Doan is more dynamic than Jagr (ie. can play in all situations). That is not a knock on Jagr either, but for dollar to dollar- you may not get the same points with Doan, but he does 10 other things that you don't get with Jagr that does not show up on the score sheet.

[radoran]

Plus Doan is more dynamic than Jagr (ie. can play in all situations). That is not a knock on Jagr either, but for dollar to dollar- you may not get the same points with Doan, but he does 10 other things that you don't get with Jagr that does not show up on the score sheet.

I think Doan on Giroux's wing would outscore Jagr last year without breaking a sweat. .

IF Doan is going to leave Phoenix, I would have NO problem backing up a truckload of Comcast's money to his door.

[Vanflyer]

I think Doan on Giroux's wing would outscore Jagr last year without breaking a sweat. .

IF Doan is going to leave Phoenix, I would have NO problem backing up a truckload of Comcast's money to his door.

Me too. I would do it for the rest of his career as well- even as an +35 player. The guy was a beast for Phoenix ALL last year AND in the playoffs. I think I saw one game where he played 27 minutes- as a effing forward!!!

I respect his loyalty to Phoenix, but man- what a great player. We all gush over B. Ryan, but I would take Doan over Ryan- especially when no assets would be involved.

Hartnell or X + Giroux + Doan would be lethal

Doan is GREAT on the PK as well.

[doom88]

Doan could prefer the actual Datsyuk to Giroux, and no Bryz.

[radoran]

Doan could prefer the actual Datsyuk to Giroux, and no Bryz.

Doan would prefer to stay in Phoenix.

If he doesn't stay in PHX, I would offer hiim a slightly silly contract (up to, say, 3Y/$16.5M) and if he didn't come here because of Bryzgalov and signed for less elsewhere, then the Flyers really, really, really screwed up and I will be banging the "mismanagement" drum even louder.

Time will tell.

[doom88]

Doan would prefer to stay in Phoenix.

If he doesn't stay in PHX, I would offer hiim a slightly silly contract (up to, say, 3Y/$16.5M) and if he didn't come here because of Bryzgalov and signed for less elsewhere, then the Flyers really, really, really screwed up and I will be banging the "mismanagement" drum even louder.

Time will tell.

Yes, of course, assuming Phx can't get their crap straight.

[jammer2]

@doom88 I keep getting this overwhelming feeling that good things will happen if we sign Doan. Perfect mentor for the kids to look up to....the kids get to see first hand how a professional handles himself. Those are valuable life lessons for young impressional kids. I love the fact we would automatically be tougher to play against. We are not tenacious enough on the cycle IMHO, he would make his line go. Another guy who makes those around him better.

Let me ask the crazy question....is it possible Shane Doan is our Butch Goring?....the long sought after "missing piece".....a guy who maybe scores 3 or 4 key overtime goals during a playoff run to extend/win series. Crazier things have been uttered.

I'm still scared at the length, but I'm ok with 22 million over 4 years. The scary part is the +35 rule. My theory is this...by the time inflation catches up, 3 years from now, I believe Doan will be a bargain at 5.5.....I would also increase my offer by half a mill for every year he was willing to knock off the original 4 offer.

Edited July 6, 2012 by jammer2

[mojo1917]

@doom88 I keep getting this overwhelming feeling that good things will happen if we sign Doan. Perfect mentor for the kids to look up to....the kids get to see first hand how a professional handles himself. Those are valuable life lessons for young impressional kids. I love the fact we would automatically be tougher to play against. We are not tenacious enough on the cycle IMHO, he would make his line go. Another guy who makes those around him better.

all of this sounds good to me, plus we don't know that the 35+ rule will exist as it does today, i think that and term length will be things that get looked at very closely and appended in this new go round. i don't know if i like the thought of 39 year old shane doan making 5.5 but i don't mind 38 year old shane doan making 5million per year in his career capstone and second victorious trip to the finals.

[TimKerrFan12]

all of this sounds good to me, plus we don't know that the 35+ rule will exist as it does today, i think that and term length will be things that get looked at very closely and appended in this new go round. i don't know if i like the thought of 39 year old shane doan making 5.5 but i don't mind 38 year old shane doan making 5million per year in his career capstone and second victorious trip to the finals.

....and Doan easily replaces Jagr's pts.

[Vanflyer]

Doan could prefer the actual Datsyuk to Giroux, and no Bryz.

You know that is quite a problem now. I am not sure who posted it or what the origin was, but there was something on the FA not wanting to come to Philly thread where there was a reference to player X (if forget who) not wanting to come to Philly because of Bryzgalov.

After all our years of mediocre goaltending, to have players openly say they don't want to come to philly because of a particular goalie is pretty appalling.

[radoran]

Upon reflection a bit, I guess in terms of the "in it for the money" aspect, I look at a player like Mark Recchi.

Recchi took $1.5M, $1.75M and $1.95M in his final three years with the Bruins at 40, 41, and 42 for the opportunity to put another logo on his Stanley Cup tattoo. He probably could have gotten more money to sign with another team and play out the string, but the Cup meant something to him and the ability to give his team more flexibility to achieve it to me say more than Jagr signing for a team that's in the process of gutting itself and hasn't made the playoff since 2008.

Recchi put up 23/61 (16 points in 18 games for the Bruins), 18/43, 14/48 - his 40-year-old season actually better than Jagr's 19/54. Recchi also played 80, 81 and 81 games during the regular season in those years.

In terms of "fair market value" comparisons.

And now we hear from Homer that it was because he was "antsy" that the Flyers were waiting for Parise and Suter. "Antsy" makes you go from a team with a pedigree of "competing" for the Stanely Cup to a perrennial doormat with a tainted Cup history?

Fine. I don't believe for a second the Flyers had a $4.5M contract discussion with Jagr.

But it's hard to look at this and say "it's not about the money" (and, if it is - bully for Jagr if that's what he wants). Again, I do not expect Jagr to finish the season in Dallas unless the Stars are the miracle breakout team of the season. In which case - again - bully for them.

I would have had more respect than I do (and I do have a good opinion of Jagr) if he had made the decision Recchi made instead of the one he did.

[Vanflyer]

And now we hear from Homer that it was because he was "antsy" that the Flyers were waiting for Parise and Suter. "Antsy" makes you go from a team with a pedigree of "competing" for the Stanely Cup to a perrennial doormat with a tainted Cup history?

Antsy means he was pissed and was not going to wait. I don't blame him. Your other points are valid regarding "win" or "get paid". You portray Dallas poorly. Had Dallas played .500 hockey in their last 5 games, you would not be reading about LA Kings as SC champions.

[radoran]

Antsy means he was pissed and was not going to wait. I don't blame him. Your other points are valid regarding "win" or "get paid". You portray Dallas poorly. Had Dallas played .500 hockey in their last 5 games, you would not be reading about LA Kings as SC champions.

I don't blame him either. But this wasn't a "win the Cup" move.

And I portray Dallas as a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 2008 - almost doesn't count in hockey, just horse soes and hand grenades.

I just contrast him with a player who clarly wanted to win the a Cup with a legit contender. If Jagr needed the money, take it.

[Vanflyer]

I don't blame him either. But this wasn't a "win the Cup" move.

And I portray Dallas as a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 2008 - almost doesn't count in hockey, just horse soes and hand grenades.

I just contrast him with a player who clarly wanted to win the a Cup with a legit contender. If Jagr needed the money, take it.

It would be interesting to see who the other suitors were. That would tell the full story. I have to think that Detroit was in the mix and to pick Dallas over Detroit (especially if it was 500k or less difference) would be shocking. The one thing is that I think he really wants to continue being a first line guy. While certainly other teams could give him ball park money in the 4m range, how many can gurantee him first line minutes?