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Flyers- bottom line..weaker defense, weaker goaltending, weaker offense


Guest RonJeremy
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We traded Bob for a prayer, and got nothing to immeditaley help the team, Bob would have been best utilized in a package deal, or we shoud have kept him one more year, is the 500,000 we save on his contract really gonna make a difference. Instead we are stuck with two slow moving turltles in the net. Leighton was an inconsistent goalie, and still will be. To me our goaltending is definitely weaker.

We lost Jagr and JVR... so we definitley lost size and scoring, sure JVR was hurt, but at worst he would have scored 20-25. Jagr was not worth what he was asking ,but unless we get Doan, everyone else is a an old washed up stiff or euro puss like Semin. Now theres talk of Bobby Ryan ,how will that help? You will be giving up 2 players at least, so that will furhter erode our depth and goal scoring.

Things looked good when we got Schenn, but only if we had kept Carle or added Suter. So all we really did was swap Carle for Schenn. We gain in hits, and defensive skill, but we lose in puck rushing, and passing ability. So we still have Mez and Timo , off back surgery and Bruno Gervais is no help at all, if we lose Timmo at all we are finished.

So, for all intents and purposes, we area weaker all around team than we were last year

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I disagree.

1. You think Bob was something special? Based on what? I think Leighton is a good fit for the back-up job. He has played well when called-upon.

2. I don't think the offense will suffer at all. JvR barely even played last season. And Jagr was good, but he really showed his age down the stretch and into the playoffs. We have every reason to expect that the kids will make strides this season, especially Schenn & Cooter. (I think Schenn is poised for a break--out season.)

3. On defense we will have a full season with Grossmann. He made a huge difference when he came over before the trade deadline. And I think Luke Schenn will be way better than people expect. Just let the kid hit, clear the porch and play D. Our D just got WAY more physical, IMO. Kimmo, Grossman, Schenn, Mezsaros, Bourdon, etc.- that ain't a bad defensive corps. In fact, I'd say our top 4 is up there with just about anyone's.

. . .and Homer isn't done yet. I expect another move or two before the season, not to mention he will undoubtedly make a big push to trade for Weber by the deadline.

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2. I don't think the offense will suffer at all. JvR barely even played last season. And Jagr was good, but he really showed his age down the stretch and into the playoffs. We have every reason to expect that the kids will make strides this season, especially Schenn & Cooter. (I think Schenn is poised for a break--out season.)

And don't forget about Matt Read, scored 24 goals and 47 points with a crazy-sick 15.5% shooting percentage playing mostly third line and penalty kill. I have a feeling he is going to increase his production if he gets a few more shifts per game and plays on a better line.

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We traded Bob for a prayer, and got nothing to immeditaley help the team, Bob would have been best utilized in a package deal, or we shoud have kept him one more year, is the 500,000 we save on his contract really gonna make a difference. Instead we are stuck with two slow moving turltles in the net. Leighton was an inconsistent goalie, and still will be. To me our goaltending is definitely weaker.

We lost Jagr and JVR... so we definitley lost size and scoring, sure JVR was hurt, but at worst he would have scored 20-25. Jagr was not worth what he was asking ,but unless we get Doan, everyone else is a an old washed up stiff or euro puss like Semin. Now theres talk of Bobby Ryan ,how will that help? You will be giving up 2 players at least, so that will furhter erode our depth and goal scoring.

Things looked good when we got Schenn, but only if we had kept Carle or added Suter. So all we really did was swap Carle for Schenn. We gain in hits, and defensive skill, but we lose in puck rushing, and passing ability. So we still have Mez and Timo , off back surgery and Bruno Gervais is no help at all, if we lose Timmo at all we are finished.

So, for all intents and purposes, we area weaker all around team than we were last year

Agreed our goaltending is weaker...Bob is better than Leighton

Defence is weaker...lost Carle..replaced with Syrvet and a host of rejects..

Offence is weaker...lost Jagr and JVR..replaced with noone

Parise and Suter both turn down monster contracts to play in Philly

What the hell is going on? The season look bleak..

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I disagree.

1. You think Bob was something special? Based on what? I think Leighton is a good fit for the back-up job. He has played well when called-upon.

2. I don't think the offense will suffer at all. JvR barely even played last season. And Jagr was good, but he really showed his age down the stretch and into the playoffs. We have every reason to expect that the kids will make strides this season, especially Schenn & Cooter. (I think Schenn is poised for a break--out season.)

3. On defense we will have a full season with Grossmann. He made a huge difference when he came over before the trade deadline. And I think Luke Schenn will be way better than people expect. Just let the kid hit, clear the porch and play D. Our D just got WAY more physical, IMO. Kimmo, Grossman, Schenn, Mezsaros, Bourdon, etc.- that ain't a bad defensive corps. In fact, I'd say our top 4 is up there with just about anyone's.

. . .and Homer isn't done yet. I expect another move or two before the season, not to mention he will undoubtedly make a big push to trade for Weber by the deadline.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Agreed our goaltending is weaker...Bob is better than Leighton

Defence is weaker...lost Carle..replaced with Syrvet and a host of rejects.. (Syvret? What happened to Bourdon, Gusts, Manning, and also Schenn?)

Offence is weaker...lost Jagr and JVR..replaced with noone (What happened to wellwood, Harry Z? JVR was never replaced because he was never here? Jagr showed his age in the Jersey series.)

Parise and Suter both turn down monster contracts to play in Philly. (THANK GOD!!!)

What the hell is going on? The season look bleak.. (Season looks gret, we get to let our guys grow and develop together?)

Edited by Philly29
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Andy Bob is way better than Leighton ,we now have the the two slowest post to post goalies in the league. Bob had superior reflexes to Leighton,he just lacked experience. A full year of Grossman,? I iike his game, but he will not replace Carles passing and puck rushing, our defense is a little more dimensional now,it hurts the transition game without Carle. You also said Homer will make a move for Webber at the deadline. Do you realize we will have to give up at least 3 players and first rounder for the best dman in the league.probably more since so many teams will be after Webber.So we will deplete our team by trading for Webber. Jagr slowed down at the end,but he is much better than Ruslan Fedetenko, and Gervais is a mere fill in. We have no first line right wing and we lost our best puck rushing dman. A trade will not improve the team overall,whether it's Webber,Nash or Ryan.to get any of them we are giving up 3 players....We are definitely a weaker team at this point. Hopefully next year we can sign some of those top UFAs like Perry,Getzlaf etc.

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@bryanc I don't get all the trade Matt Read posts I see. In most cases, it's a compliment....posters realize he is young and valuable an thus a big piece of a potential trade. I just hate the idea of trading away somebody *that* fast and shifty before we really see what we have. Who knows, maybe Read turns out better than a Bobby Ryan....who knows, all we really know is he came in strong, looked comfortable from day one and posted 24 goals while playing a rambunctious brand of hockey. He's a keeper in my books, not a throw in. Whatever scout found him needs a raise...right now!

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(I think Schenn is poised for a break--out season.)

I chuckled when I read that. The guy played ONE nhl season and he is ready for a break-out year. Seriously, I know what you mean. Schenn had a hard luck story season. Not as bad as JVR, but similar. I do agree that I think we are going to see why that trade was made. Simmonds was the "throw" in on that deal and Schenn was the jewel of the crown. I think this year we are going to see exactly why.

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We traded Bob for a prayer, and got nothing to immeditaley help the team, Bob would have been best utilized in a package deal, or we shoud have kept him one more year, is the 500,000 we save on his contract really gonna make a difference. Instead we are stuck with two slow moving turltles in the net. Leighton was an inconsistent goalie, and still will be. To me our goaltending is definitely weaker.

We lost Jagr and JVR... so we definitley lost size and scoring, sure JVR was hurt, but at worst he would have scored 20-25. Jagr was not worth what he was asking ,but unless we get Doan, everyone else is a an old washed up stiff or euro puss like Semin. Now theres talk of Bobby Ryan ,how will that help? You will be giving up 2 players at least, so that will furhter erode our depth and goal scoring.

Things looked good when we got Schenn, but only if we had kept Carle or added Suter. So all we really did was swap Carle for Schenn. We gain in hits, and defensive skill, but we lose in puck rushing, and passing ability. So we still have Mez and Timo , off back surgery and Bruno Gervais is no help at all, if we lose Timmo at all we are finished.

So, for all intents and purposes, we area weaker all around team than we were last year

It's easy to be negative when you don't have to worry about the alternatives, which were:

Bob: None. No one would trade a decent roster player for a project like Bob.

Leighton: I'm still waiting to hear who we should have signed. Anyone?

JvR: A wasting asset. I don't love this trade but we didn't need another year of a guy who, while talented, didn't really have a role on the team.

Carle: $5.5MM for the next 6 years, cap hell.

Jagr: $4.5MM and a guaranteed role

Seriously, if you are going to be so thoroughly negative, as least offer a reasonable alternative.

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@terp

"Leighton: I'm still waiting to hear who we should have signed. Anyone?"

I still remain adament that Montoya is a legit goalentder. He signed a very reasonable 600,000 dollar one year deal to back up Pavelec in Winnipeg, who he will steal the #1 job from in my estimation. He would have never, ever passed through waivers like Leighton. Think about that, every GM in the league could have not only got Leighton for half price AND could have screwed the Flyers for half his salary against their cap....not one inkling of interest.....that is disturbing and also confirms what I already know, he's not an NHL goalentder.

Homer will have to fix this mess and give up an asset to make up for this mistake. Leighton will be gone by January.

Edited by jammer2
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Bob: None. No one would trade a decent roster player for a project like Bob.

I don't see Bob as a "project". That trade was a mercy trade. The problem was that the owner could not keep his hands out of the cookie jar and forced management to make a move they should have never made. Is Bobs a #1- possibly and certainly can develop into one easily. But his ticket was punched the day the Flyers signed Breezy. I am happy the Flyers gave him a chance elsewhere as he is a quality kid and works extremely hard.

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Fellas, you continue missing the fact that the team is facing a much bigger question...... a $51 mil question.

OK, the roster is not great. In fact, it's average. Not the worst in the league, not the best in the lague. But to me this season is all about Bryzgalov. He better have a brilliant year. Anything less, and that's your disaster right there. Not Luke Schenn, not JVR, not having missed on Parise/Suter.......... Do you really believe if we sign Parise but Bryzgalov plays teh way he played last season would make even a little bit of difference?

The guy between the pipe will determine how the Flyers not only do this season but the next season as well.

Edited by Mad Dog
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@terp, my alternatve was to package Bob as part of a bigger deal or to keep him another year. That goalie we picked is a dime a dozen, its not like he was such a hot prospect that it was so imperative to move Bob now, we also got some 4th rounders, so in essence we got nothing. I also wrote that Jagr and Carle wanted too much. I mentioned Doan... but he wants to stay out west, so I dont know where your getting this negative stuff from, Im just telling it like it is, its an absoultely honest assesment and accurate...Unlike Todays story "Holmgren Pleased with Flyers moves" YEAH RIGHT! He is pleased that instead of Parise/ Suter or Jagr/Carle we got Fedetenko and Gervais, a fourh line checking forwrad and a 7th defenseman, just what we needed.

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@RonJeremy

In lieu of overpaying, Homer should be happy with the moves. He added depth at F and D, and moved a non-functional component (JVR) into a physical righty top 4 defenseman - which many people suggested categorically they wanted.

Blockbusters? Nope. Any worth pursuing? Not in my opinion, yet.

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And I forgot Coburn (!!!). Our D will be solid.

It will be serviceable. I don't know if I would use the word "solid". As of right now, we replaced Carle with Luke Schenn. Plus, I expect Bourdon getting a healthy bite out of the lineup.

So with everything else staying the same, it should probably be no worse than last season. But there are plenty of reasons for being concerned.

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It will be serviceable. I don't know if I would use the word "solid". As of right now, we replaced Carle with Luke Schenn. Plus, I expect Bourdon getting a healthy bite out of the lineup.

So with everything else staying the same, it should probably be no worse than last season. But there are plenty of reasons for being concerned.

Call me crazy, but I really think Luke Schenn is going to be a big addition to our defense. I think he will be a better defensive player than Carle. (He won't put up nearly the same point totals, but I'm not that worried about his offense.)

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Call me crazy, but I really think Luke Schenn is going to be a big addition to our defense. I think he will be a better defensive player than Carle. (He won't put up nearly the same point totals, but I'm not that worried about his offense.)

I agree. As long as he plays tough and physical and uses his body to keep the crease clear from Bryz, to give the goalie some time and space and vision, then I'll be happy. Play defense. Help your goalie. If it gives Bryz the chance, a better chance, to make the saves he should have been making last season, then it's an improvement. In my opinion, Carle was lacking in that capacity. I think Schenn will be an improvement. Let the offense take care of the offense.

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I agree. As long as he plays tough and physical and uses his body to keep the crease clear from Bryz, to give the goalie some time and space and vision, then I'll be happy. Play defense. Help your goalie. If it gives Bryz the chance, a better chance, to make the saves he should have been making last season, then it's an improvement. In my opinion, Carle was lacking in that capacity. I think Schenn will be an improvement. Let the offense take care of the offense.

That is exactly my sentiments as well.

I'm not worried about offense with this team. Just give us some steady, physical defense in front of Bryz.

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you have to remember all the young players in the line up are going to get better and will need more ice time to do it. Jagr did nothing in the playoffs and wanted more money . This team will make the playoffs with cap money to spend on what they need. I think Pronger will be back next year . The only thing that worries me is the goaltending.

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